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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    well i got my wish, they made the helm both easier to use and easier to kick to the curb
    Haha true enough. I won't be sad to see it tossed aside for some other legos.

  2. #382
    Can someone explain to me why the new ED is a nerf.

    I understand that if you average more than 6 casts with the old ED, you saved more AP.

    But at just 30% haste, it seems to me like you never have to cast unempowered spells with the new ED. I just typed out a 45 second rotation that I'll link below and it's only a net -5 in terms of AP every moon cycle (45 seconds) and that's before factoring in Incarnation.

    If you are only ever casting empowered spells + starsurge + moon spells, shouldn't that be an increase? Especially when the difference between an empowered spell and an unempowered spell is over 100% at current mastery levels?

    The rotation is below. It assumes starting at 130 AP. It's actually not even as AP negative as I've posted because of the remaining cast time on left over empowerments that pushes the 'full usage' beyond 45 seconds. You could weave in moon spells where appropriate. The net effect will just be more empowerments remaining to be cast. The result will be a different casting pattern but the point stands. The overall 45 second cycle means you never have to cast an unempowered spell. The point of looking at a 45 second cycle is that it guarantees access to all 3 moon spells.

    edit: actually you could go a whole lot more into mastery because you really only need enough haste to get 2xLS 1xSW into the 5sec window (at 30% it only takes 4.7 seconds with the SS gcd for that sequence)

    In the end we'll need sims, I guess, to see whether/how much the new ED is a nerf.
    http://imgur.com/DhJnpp6

    Last edited by thedeisel; 2017-05-16 at 10:12 PM.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    What would you say is the best 3rd legendary if we can get no extra CD from IFE due to fight duration?
    It looks like the new Soul of the Archdruid ring might be as good, if not better than IFE generically now. The latest PTR build has it at 3 secondary stats instead of the usual 2.

  4. #384
    actually, following up on the table above, I caught a few mistakes.

    The 45 second cast cycle is actually AP positive by 5. The new version below fixes a couple mistakes above:

    I'm sure there are better ways to figure out the rotation but it seems to me that the new ED means never casting unempowered spells.


    Last edited by thedeisel; 2017-05-16 at 10:36 PM.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by beaver1024 View Post
    It looks like the new Soul of the Archdruid ring might be as good, if not better than IFE generically now. The latest PTR build has it at 3 secondary stats instead of the usual 2.
    With significantly less secondary stats atm though (~1000 total vs 3000 for IFE, at 910), though that could be a PTR thing. That said though, IFE is 2x Haste > 1x Mastery while SOTA is an even split for Haste Mastery and Crit. SOTA will also be relatively shitty on ST fights.
    Uses the same signature for over a year, just randomly gets infracted for it recently.
    Placeholder signature is placeholder and will hopefully make me finish my shit.
    Oh yeah, I'm a Druid and stuff.
    I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall.

  6. #386
    I'll have a look at it once we're closer to 7.2.5. But I can definitely see diesel's argument that the increased window and extra spell between Starsurges could significantly reduce the AP reduction nerf.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  7. #387
    If anything, this change just makes the ED playstyle more of a turret one. The less starsurges you cast the less movement you can actually do.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  8. #388
    From preliminary sims with a newer APL by Jundarer, it looks like the ED change is almost DPS-neutral, mainly due to ED buff uptime increasing to 99%.

    Edit: here's the preliminary output with all PTR changes

    Last edited by Slippykins; 2017-05-17 at 01:47 AM.
    <Adorable> - OCE 16, US 93
    Slippykins - Armory - Logs - Wowprog

    Boomkin Theorycrafting (updated for 7.2.5) -- linky

  9. #389
    Quick question, if the change makes indefinite ED buff uptime possible, couldn't using globals on OI starfall procs cause you to lose AP and possibly drop the buff?

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    From preliminary sims with a newer APL by Jundarer, it looks like the ED change is almost DPS-neutral, mainly due to ED buff uptime increasing to 99%.
    If this is true then this is quite positive from a QoL perspective because then we don't need to farm NH to get the ideal T19 pieces to complement T20. However if we don't have ED, then it means that you're not penalised that badly for not having an RNG legendary drop.

  11. #391
    Mechagnome Gungnir's Avatar
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    Am I the only one a bit bummed that not only is boomkin a very static caster, but ED just exacerbates that issue to a crazy level?
    Like sure, movement is supposed to be punishing, but move with ED and blow the stacks and you end up really getting plowed.

    tl;dr, ED feels like a bad design in regards to the class.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Am I the only one a bit bummed that not only is boomkin a very static caster, but ED just exacerbates that issue to a crazy level?
    Like sure, movement is supposed to be punishing, but move with ED and blow the stacks and you end up really getting plowed.

    tl;dr, ED feels like a bad design in regards to the class.
    I think that's the idea a bit behind the design of the 2pc T20. A larger AP pool lets us bank more potential starsurges to cast while moving.

  13. #393
    Mechagnome Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kluian05 View Post
    I think that's the idea a bit behind the design of the 2pc T20. A larger AP pool lets us bank more potential starsurges to cast while moving.
    Having to band-aid a class to make it more enjoyable to play through tier-sets shouldn't really be a thing in the first place.
    Just felt more fluid and a lot more fun back when you had Surge charges, just felt like it functioned a lot better as a spec than the current iteration.

    Sure, there's nothing you can do about it, but it still irks me a bit. I suppose it's why I've played less and less during Legion.

  14. #394
    just got ED tonight after rerolling a DH to 895 ilvl and getting real sad cuz thinking i was never getting that or metronome.. and i bonus roll a titanforge metro tonight AND THEN get an ED on the next boss.

    i almost brought my DH to this raid.

    god damn i feel lucky tonight that i didn't give up on my boomy. ^^

  15. #395
    I've made a spreadsheet to play around with different rotations and ED values, inspired by deisels screenshot.

    Still a bit rough around the edges but it works for the most part.

  16. #396
    i welcome this change because you have more time to do stuff now and dont have to worry that your buff is gone after

  17. #397
    i have mained a ballance druid since TBC and this is the best feral has ever felt lore wise and gameplay wise.

    no changes are needed we have a place at all difficulties in all parts of the game.

  18. #398
    Ok so helm is a break even change, so we are back to having 0 fixes for single target problems except making it easier to perform at max level because of changes to helm.
    Oh and a fix to fix the problem with losing the 4pc

    data posted here and in the class dev forum show even at the max performance level we are still 5%+ behind median performance.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    data posted here and in the class dev forum show even at the max performance level we are still 5%+ behind median performance.
    I think this is as good as it is going to get. I'm still annoyed with the nerf to Stellar Drift just because of the 4P T20. Seems ridiculous as Balance Druids are not far ahead aoe wise.

  20. #400
    another week, another ptr build, full of moonkin crickets....

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