Alberta man gets 4.5 years in prison in sex tourism case

[alexkeren]

How does this story translate to sex tourism?

sex tourism
noun
the organization of holidays with the purpose of taking advantage of the lack of restrictions imposed on sexual activity and prostitution by some foreign countries.

Is this an industry promoted by Ireland?

No, it's an underground industry, often having ties to sex trafficking.

The WHO has an entire site devoted to informing people and trying to combat it.

[Ghostpanther]

At what exact age does a girl become fully developed and therefore able to exercise her own free will in who she sleeps with? Down to the hour if possible.

I will go with what the law is in the US States. Good enough for me. 14 is certainly too young. In some states, I think as young as 16 can be the legal age of sexual penetration. Some states it is 18. But no way is 14. But I have not looked those up for while, so my memory may be foggy.

But I guess personally if we decide a person is not a adult until age 18, then that is the age it should be. But some states I know have laws which have exceptions if the two involved are also under age. As in two 17 year olds having sex. But in none is a 34 year old fart having sex with a 14 year old going to be ok. :P

[Celista]

At 14 you are not developed enough to fully understand the risks and consequences of such behavior.

Exactly this. 14 year olds are in no way adults, even if they think they are. It's one of the reasons why teenagers are more likely to engage in risk-taking behavior, our brains don't stop developing until age 25.

I know that she's under the Irish age of consent but:


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-35619893.html

I see no evidence here that she was not a willing participant in this relationship.

From the exact link you posted:

When her dad read an excerpt from a letter he had sent the victim and became concerned Tremblay lied about his age and promised to cease contact.

He continued the relationship however and returned to Ireland for a second time.

The guy lied about his age and then he lied about ceasing contact with the girl, beyond the fact that she is unable to give legal consent due to her age the man was clearly being dishonest to both the girl and her father.

[Ghostpanther]

On your 18th birthday, exactly at midnight, a stork comes to your house, holding your mental capacity in its beak. It is a miracle of science.

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That is the problem, you are using circular reasoning.

It is a matter of what is written on your birth certifcate. lol.

[Celista]

At what exact age does a girl become fully developed and therefore able to exercise her own free will in who she sleeps with? Down to the hour if possible.

If you go by science, we are not fully developed until our mid-20s.

[Halicia]

I will go with what the law is in the US States. Good enough for me. 14 is certainly too young. In some states, I think as young as 16 can be the legal age of sexual penetration. Some states it is 18. But no way is 14. But I have not looked those up for while, so my memory may be foggy.

Most states exempt the age of consent in the case of marriage, which isn't necessarily subject to the state's statutes.

Loretta Lynn is a good case in point, although there's disagreement as to how young she actually was when she was married.

[Ghostpanther]

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That is the problem, you are using circular reasoning.

It is not a problem. It is a agreement with the law. So it is a justified reasoning.

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... when you can give legal consent. That was not the question posed to you.

"At what exact age does a girl become fully developed and therefore able to exercise her own free will in who she sleeps with?"

Yes it was. I think what the law says when we are legally a adult would be right. There are sound reasons they picked 18. :P

[Celista]

So, i can assume you are in favor of raising the age of consent to 25?

That would be what would make the most sense based on science, it would seem super weird though due to social convention. Our current laws are fine, where there are typically close-in-age exceptions.

Would be interesting if close-in-age exceptions ended at 25 instead of 18, though.

[Ghostpanther]

Most states exempt the age of consent in the case of marriage, which isn't necessarily subject to the state's statutes.

Loretta Lynn is a good case in point, although there's disagreement as to how young she actually was when she was married.

I think there is still a age requirement involved. But yeah, i do know things are different if marriage is involved. But the subject of this thread is just pure lusty sex with a minor. So not related.

Edit. This is Ohio's law dealing with legal marriage consent ;

Who may contract a marriage?
Male persons of the age of 18 years and female persons of the age of 16 years, not nearer of kin than second cousins and not having a husband or wife, may be joined in marriage. A minor must first obtain the consent of his or her parents, surviving parent, parent who is designated the residential parent and legal custodian of the child by a court of competent jurisdiction, the guardian of his or her person, or any of the following who has been awarded permanent custody of him or her by a court exercising juvenile jurisdiction: an adult person; the Department of Human Services or any child welfare organization certified by that department; or a public children services agency. (This consent for a minor generally applies to females under the age of 18, but also may apply to males under 18.) In addition, an applicant under the age of 18 years must provide proof of age and must prove that he or she has received marriage counseling satisfactory to the court.

So it seems that even with consent of parents, 16 is the youngest they can be.

[Sam the Wiser]

He should appeal the ruling. This man should be free.

[Super Kami Dende]

That would be what would make the most sense based on science, it would seem super weird though due to social convention. Our current laws are fine, where there are typically close-in-age exceptions.

Would be interesting if close-in-age exceptions ended at 25 instead of 18, though.

Nothing really to do with Social Convention. Moreso to do with Nature. We are Animals so like Animals we generally begin to think about sex when our reproductive abilities kick in. This "mental development" shit people constantly talk about is idiotic. I've met Women who had a Child at 16 who were well adjusted enough to care for a Baby and make pretty heavy life decisions. I've met Women in their 30's which act like childish pieces of shit when it comes to raising their newborns.

[Ghostpanther]

Nothing really to do with Social Convention. Moreso to do with Nature. We are Animals so like Animals we generally begin to think about sex when our reproductive abilities kick in. This "mental development" shit people constantly talk about is idiotic. I've met Women who had a Child at 16 who were well adjusted enough to care for a Baby and make pretty heavy life decisions. I've met Women in their 30's which act like childish pieces of shit when it comes to raising their newborns.

And that idiotic shit law can send your ass to prison if you are caught doing it here in the US at least. Does not matter what your personal experiences have been.

[Free]

The age of consent is 14 in Germany, he should have went there. (Thanks Archer season 2)

[Celista]

Nothing really to do with Social Convention. Moreso to do with Nature. We are Animals so like Animals we generally begin to think about sex when our reproductive abilities kick in. This "mental development" shit people constantly talk about is idiotic. I've met Women who had a Child at 16 who were well adjusted enough to care for a Baby and make pretty heavy life decisions. I've met Women in their 30's which act like childish pieces of shit when it comes to raising their newborns.

I bet the overall percentage of 30 year olds fit to parent is much higher than 16 year olds fit to parent. Laws are based on averages because we can't clog up a court system every time someone wants to have sex, if a judge had to determine whether or not each individual 16 year old was emotionally mature enough to bang then we would get nothing else done.

[NED funded]

Uff, I never thought Canada had problems regarding pedophilia. Scary place.

[Ghostpanther]

He should appeal the ruling. This man should be free.

He has the right to a appeal. But I think it is pretty clear he did wrong by the law. His chances of winning a appeal are next to zero I think.

[Dawnrage]

When people say that a person under a certain age is unable to make sound decisions about things like sex, I agree.

However, I don't understand then what the difference is between two people who are underage having sex and a guy/girl who is much older having sex with someone younger.

What exactly does the law protect here? Why does it not apply to both situations and prevent underage sex in general (I know that's a near impossibility since most kids have their first time around age 13 as far as I remember). What exactly is traumatizing about having sex with someone twice your age versus having sex with someone close to your age, when you are underage to begin with?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's absolutely disgusting for a 30 year old to be preying on some 15 year old kid, but I guess I don't understand the argument of, "the law is there to protect kids".

I guess my point is that the law is there to punish the 30 year old, not protect the 15 year old. Even if it's consensual, the 30 year old should realize that what he's doing is really stupid; not that the 15 year old is too young to realize what she/he is about to do.

[Super Kami Dende]

I bet the overall percentage of 30 year olds fit to parent is much higher than 16 year olds fit to parent. Laws are based on averages because we can't clog up a court system every time someone wants to have sex, if a judge had to determine whether or not each individual 16 year old was emotionally mature enough to bang then we would get nothing else done.

Well, I guess it is a good thing that 16 is the age of Consent in my Country.

[Ghostpanther]

When people say that a person under a certain age is unable to make sound decisions about things like sex, I agree.

However, I don't understand then what the difference is between two people who are underage having sex and a guy/girl who is much older having sex with someone younger.

What exactly does the law protect here? Why does it not apply to both situations and prevent underage sex in general (I know that's a near impossibility since most kids have their first time around age 13 as far as I remember). What exactly is traumatizing about having sex with someone twice your age versus having sex with someone close to your age, when you are underage to begin with?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's absolutely disgusting for a 30 year old to be preying on some 15 year old kid, but I guess I don't understand the argument of, "the law is there to protect kids".

I guess my point is that the law is there to punish the 30 year old, not protect the 15 year old. Even if it's consensual, the 30 year old should realize that what he's doing is really stupid; not that the 15 year old is too young to realize what she/he is about to do.

Actually I think it is there to protect the minors from being victims of adults who otherwise would prey on the very young. The reason they do not punish two minors having sex is they both are underage and are not held to the same standards as a adult would be. You also see this in cases where at times minors are not trialed or punished as adults when committing crimes. Sometimes they are depending on the case and seriousness of it however. Such as murder.

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Well, I guess it is a good thing that 16 is the age of Consent in my Country.

Yeah. But 15 would not be. Right? Even if she is built like Halley Berry and 5' 10"? So even your country has a legal age cut off.

[Ghostpanther]

A girl can give consent when it becomes legal. The law will grant her that right when she can give consent.

Justified?

By the law, yes. We are a society of laws for good reasons you know?