1. #1

    Why is Royal Dagger Haft so hated?

    Hey all,

    Here is my current gear for reference us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Blindsay/simple

    I am just curious why Royal Dagger Haft is so negatively looked on? I feel like a free death is quite handy, there have been some fights where something unexpected happens and it ends up killing me but that trinket saves me (and in turn lets us keep a BR for someone else). I know the crit isnt our best stat but its not useless either.

    Along those lines how reliable is ask mr robot? It tells me to use my two current equipped trinkets over pretty much anything else.

    we are currently 4/10M and so far it has gone pretty smooth but i have been trying to do as much research as possible to improve my tanking.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    I prefer Icy Veins, it gives explanations for trinkets, and it lists it on there, good to have a free cheat death. I don't tank as often as I should, so I can't provide any additional input.

  3. #3
    If you play properly, you don't need that safety net and can use a trinket that helps you stay alive the entire fight instead(or do more damage), rather than one that saves you when you fuck up. And don't use AMR for anything tank-related. I'd recommend going to your class discord and asking there.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2017-04-15 at 01:29 PM.
    Tradushuffle
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  4. #4
    The hate for Royal Dagger Haft is really strange... and AMR is actually really good for tanking, when you configure it properly.

    AMR ranks it really high because it bases tank gear ranking around making you more durable in content that is hard for you to tank, or in other words: good gear is gear that makes you less likely to die.

    But there is a bit of personal preference around the Royal Dagger Haft, the rule of thumb is this: in your last couple of raids, have you died unexpectedly at least once? (Or if you already have the dagger haft, has it triggered at least once?) Then it is the best trinket for you, hands down. If you don't recall dying unexpectedly recently, then you probably aren't going to get much benefit from it, use something else.

    This idea of "use something that helps you stay alive for the entire fight instead" is weird... most tanks, if they die, don't die multiple times per fight. Usually it is a bad spike at some point that kills you. Something that e.g. gives you a bit more armor and stamina let's say... is valuable because it leads to less situations where you would take a lethal spike. It's actually far less obvious how getting a little armor and stamina would be as good as the dagger haft, even though it is. The reason is that it lowers the probability that you will be too low to take a spike. The dagger haft does the same thing, just in a different and more direct way: it automatically negates about one lethal event per fight. The long cooldown on the dagger haft is necessary to make it balanced... more than one such save per fight would crush every other tank item in the game.

    Also, the idea that an item like the dagger haft is only useful if you "screw up" is just wrong. If you simply aren't tough enough because your gear is overall too low for the content you are trying to do, it will lead to situations where you die. Healers can't keep up with the damage, your life stays too low for too long, a hit kills you. The dagger haft can help you improve your chances of survival just as much as getting an upgrade with more armor and stamina.

  5. #5
    3 main problems with the trinket.

    -A proc the never happens until you forcibly want it to happen in high skill cap.
    -Trading a effect which has little to no effect on your effective HP.
    -Least to say how horrible it is for pushing any sort of threat or DPS.
    -Has negative effects and only allows for spike moment recovery and will not save you from situations such as Black Harvest.

    Just to add the amount of other trinkets which is better than Royal Dagger Hilt in terms of survivability
    -Talisman of Cragshaper
    -Coagulated Nightwell Residue
    -Giant Ornamental Pearl
    -Parjesh Medallion
    -Majordomo Dinnerbell
    Last edited by SnorlaxJeng; 2017-04-16 at 11:42 AM.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Nuniqt's Avatar
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    Ive been known to use it as a holy pally as it gives me a safety net when using things like blessing of sac or aura of sac. As a crit stat stick its not complete garbage, and it lets me play a little more aggressively despite being a baddie >

  7. #7
    I use it any time I'm doing anything difficult like high level mythic plus. Tank has been my offspec mostly but floating around the same ilvl as you and similar progression (though we've stopped doing mythic for the time being) I've found that sometimes a boss can be so punishing (or healers have something better to do) that you chew through all your defensive options and have nothing left and get splatted. Dagger give you one more out before death. It's situational but if I was trying to tank mythic spellblade or botanist, I'd use it.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    You can switch it out after it procs.

  9. #9
    It's just kind of weak overall. It's a 1 time safety net even in long fights and even then it doesn't give that much in the way of survivability.

    A lot of prot pallies just roll with DPS trinks because Avenger's shield's absorb is based on the damage it does and since it resets a lot you can almost keep it up constantly with enough haste.

    You'd be better off with any trinket that gives stam than Royal Dagger just because of how weak the active is over a prolonged period. If the cooldown was much shorter it would be strong but since it's such a huge CD it's typically not worth.

  10. #10
    royal dagger is basically a safety net proc for spike damage deaths, what this means is that less skilled tanks who are more likely to die of damage spikes get more use out of it than higher skilled tanks who know how to counter said spikes, or for cutting edge progression like the kind guilds going for server firsts go for. If you don't get a use out of the proc then it just becomes a crit stat stick which is our worst stat for survival.

  11. #11
    The cap on max hit it can absorb often allows it to be leapfrogged (you get 1 shot anyway because the killing blow exceeds the cap), for palas it's bad because if you try to forcibly cheese a 1-shot mechanic with ardent defender the trinket will proc and be put on massive cd, crit is a bad defensive stat and for dps there are better trinkets (like memento), and if you want to help your healers it's better to go for a trinket that will always save them some mana (dmc, versa stat stick, good absorb trinket) than a trinket that won't do anything except maybe proc once per fight and only because you or your raid team fucked up. For me something that works all the time > something that works at best once every 6 mins and at worst never.

    Tbh there are very few bosses I remember most wipes happened because tank died (in this expansion ursoc and krosus were 2, but krosus now is nowhere near as dangerous as he was pre 7.2), most bosses I had to suicide myself because wipe was called after someone else fucked up.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    It's a survivability trinket, but the passive stat is our worst stat for survivability. It's ok if you expect to need a cheat death, but there are SO many trinkets that are better - pretty much any with similar item level.

    Only time I used it was for early progression on Gul'dan, but I dropped it as soon as I learned the fight.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  13. #13
    Deleted
    It was good when the cap was unlimited at the start of the raid, but fixed later.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    How i see tanking and tank gearing is that you try to make your weakest moments stronger. Dagger covers one weak moment, but if you are in a moment like that the likelihood of another similiar moment during the same fight is high, making it pointless in my eyes. Furthermore checking the tank deaths in situations where it matters (most of the raid being still alive) the overkill amount is in my experience really small, avoidable by other trinkets. Static crit is bad in most cases too, parries in general go against the same philosophy. On your weakest moments (bad parry luck streaks) it is a bad stat, not helping you on your weakest moments.

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