Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    1. How do you lose in a Skirmish?

    2. Don't do skirmishes. Just do arena. You don't encounter tanks (unless its some prot pala comp in 3s) past 1900 mmr.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Krassz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltmacht View Post
    Cempa is posting legitimate concers about the PVP situation, and ''pvp gods'' are roasting him for being such a ''scrub''. Cmon guys it doesn't validate your ebens 1900 skills at all.
    Legitimate concerns like losing to guardian druids in skirmishes?

    I'm pretty sure it's a L2P issue, he's not explained why they're broken. He hasn't said what needs to change. For all we know, he popped CDs into brambles / rage of the sleeper and wondered why he killed himself on the reflect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoibert the Bear View Post
    If specced into brambles, Barkskin reflects damage. Rage of the Sleeper reflects a shit ton of damage on top of increasing the druids damage and providing leech. Very dangerous cooldown, but easy to CC.
    You can't use most CC on rage of the sleeper.
    Last edited by Krassz; 2017-04-19 at 09:16 AM.

  3. #23
    Guardian Druid selfhealing is the problem. They have giant hp, great cc, great mobility, and great off-healing / utility. I don't think those are a real problem, though. All that needs to happen is for their SELF-healing to be cut by 50-80% in PvP as to make it so they can't regain their giant hp with ease every few seconds, at no cost.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Krassz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    Guardian Druid selfhealing is the problem. They have giant hp, great cc, great mobility, and great off-healing / utility. I don't think those are a real problem, though. All that needs to happen is for their SELF-healing to be cut by 50-80% in PvP as to make it so they can't regain their giant hp with ease every few seconds, at no cost.
    And why? Because people can't beat them in a skirmish?

    I feel like this forum just gets worse and worse every day. Thank god Blizzard don't listen and end up balancing their game around random feedback from casual pvpers about skirmishes.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz View Post
    And why? Because people can't beat them in a skirmish?

    I feel like this forum just gets worse and worse every day. Thank god Blizzard don't listen and end up balancing their game around random feedback from casual pvpers about skirmishes.
    You didn't know?!?! Your class will be nerfed if a bad player is frustrated. Everyone is a winner here!

    I am blown away too. People need to suck it up and learn about a class they are having trouble with. This is what everyone has to do. Being outplayed =/= OP.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz View Post
    And why? Because people can't beat them in a skirmish?

    I feel like this forum just gets worse and worse every day. Thank god Blizzard don't listen and end up balancing their game around random feedback from casual pvpers about skirmishes.
    You are obviously bitter seeing how mods gave you an infraction in this very same thread, so I'm going to make it simple for you:

    This thread discusses the affect of (overturned) Tanks in PvP/Arena on players who are trying to get into rated game play. Players tend to wet their feet with 2v2, and skirmishes are a cool way to incentives players to do so.

    So get off your high horse and grow up a little, this is a forum for players young and old, new and veterans to enjoy this great game in another way -the social forum chat way. No place for hatters so please go away.
    Last edited by Cempa; 2017-04-19 at 06:26 PM.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Krassz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    You are obviously bitter seeing how mods gave you an infraction in this very same thread, so I'm going to make it simple for you:

    This thread discusses the affect of (overturned) Tanks in PvP/Arena on players who are trying to get into rated game play. Players tend to wet their feet with 2v2, and skirmishes are a cool way to incentives players to do so.

    So get off your high horse and grow up a little, this is a forum for players young and old, new and veterans to enjoy this great game in another way -the social forum chat way. No place for hatters so please go away.
    I'm not a hater. You've posted nothing constructive, you've not stated why they're broken.

    You've literally just lost to a guardian druid and made a thread calling them OP without even knowing anything about why you lost.

    You didn't try and "discuss the effect of overtuned tanks", you made a STATEMENT that said tanks are overpowered and Holinka should be fired. That seems like you think they should be nerfed just because "new players" can't beat them.

    You know what the solution to that is? Getting better. There's a reason why only new players/bad players lose to them, it's because they're bad. Nerfing a spec for that would be retarded.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Another Cempa whining thread. Move on.

    Contribute constructively
    Being infracted on one of the countless non-constructive Cempa whining thread for being non-constructive. The irony.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz View Post
    I'm not a hater. You've posted nothing constructive, you've not stated why they're broken.

    You've literally just lost to a guardian druid and made a thread calling them OP without even knowing anything about why you lost.

    You didn't try and "discuss the effect of overtuned tanks", you made a STATEMENT that said tanks are overpowered and Holinka should be fired. That seems like you think they should be nerfed just because "new players" can't beat them.

    You know what the solution to that is? Getting better. There's a reason why only new players/bad players lose to them, it's because they're bad. Nerfing a spec for that would be retarded.
    While this post is a step in the right direction for you (I guess you learned), I did not use the word/name 'Holinka' not that it matters. The gaming experience for some/many builds against an overturned tank in general and Guardians specifically is far from a positive one. Some specs would have a much better time killing one, but most would just leave the fight -even if they won- feeling worse simply due to how long it takes.

    Tanks would be an amazing feature in PvP as TANKS, other games have added features that allow tanks to contribute focusing on protecting team mates, holding lines and harassing. Balancing a high mitigation build/spec with the idea of it also dealing damage is never going to work in a gear focused game.

    Are YOU happy with tanks in PvP the way they are? Either way, why?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz View Post
    And why? Because people can't beat them in a skirmish?

    I feel like this forum just gets worse and worse every day. Thank god Blizzard don't listen and end up balancing their game around random feedback from casual pvpers about skirmishes.
    Oh ok mr. bad boy, excuse me I didn't know you were getting world first 3k rating as triple tank cleave. It is I who needs to know how to play and totes not you that needs to accept that borderline immortal tanks (and healers) just make pvp frustrating and unfun, and no matter how much Blizzard tries the idea will simply never work with the way they're trying to do it.

    Tanks should be support-DPS, not high-mobility immortal annoyances. The whole argument for 'Well you need to learn to play' really reminds me of smug wotlk DKs. Like yeah, I can beat a bear; But I'm not having fun doing it. Are you having fun turning every game that should last for 1-2 mins into a 5-10 one? If so you're just an asshole that likes to waste peoples' time.

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral Krassz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    Oh ok mr. bad boy, excuse me I didn't know you were getting world first 3k rating as triple tank cleave. It is I who needs to know how to play and totes not you that needs to accept that borderline immortal tanks (and healers) just make pvp frustrating and unfun, and no matter how much Blizzard tries the idea will simply never work with the way they're trying to do it.

    Tanks should be support-DPS, not high-mobility immortal annoyances. The whole argument for 'Well you need to learn to play' really reminds me of smug wotlk DKs. Like yeah, I can beat a bear; But I'm not having fun doing it. Are you having fun turning every game that should last for 1-2 mins into a 5-10 one? If so you're just an asshole that likes to waste peoples' time.
    I'm not the one losing to tanks, sorry.

    Tanks are far from immortal, I don't care if it takes 2 minutes to kill a tank, they don't do shit and it's a free win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    While this post is a step in the right direction for you (I guess you learned), I did not use the word/name 'Holinka' not that it matters. The gaming experience for some/many builds against an overturned tank in general and Guardians specifically is far from a positive one. Some specs would have a much better time killing one, but most would just leave the fight -even if they won- feeling worse simply due to how long it takes.

    Tanks would be an amazing feature in PvP as TANKS, other games have added features that allow tanks to contribute focusing on protecting team mates, holding lines and harassing. Balancing a high mitigation build/spec with the idea of it also dealing damage is never going to work in a gear focused game.

    Are YOU happy with tanks in PvP the way they are? Either way, why?
    It's still not in the right direction for you.

    You've not stated why they're overtuned, and what specifically about them is overtuned. What abilities need nerfing?

    I agree, they're the strongest tank in PvP by far, but they're still poor in arena. I'm happy with how they are, they're unviable.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz View Post
    I'm not the one losing to tanks, sorry.

    Tanks are far from immortal, I don't care if it takes 2 minutes to kill a tank, they don't do shit and it's a free win.



    It's still not in the right direction for you.

    You've not stated why they're overtuned, and what specifically about them is overtuned. What abilities need nerfing?

    I agree, they're the strongest tank in PvP by far, but they're still poor in arena. I'm happy with how they are, they're unviable.
    Great! But I wasn't talking about arena .. I'll try rewording:

    On several occasions Blizzard staff have discussed how players get into arena, that being casual BG's first then they would dabble in Skrimeshes, and if they like it jump into 2v2 .. after some experience they go for 3v3 and RBG.

    New players don't do 3v3 and RBG out of the gate, at least not while having fun. If we can agree on that then we would also consider how gaming experience in 2v2 and skirmishes is going to influence the amount of players entering into rated.

    We all want to see more of the new WoW players eventually make it to 3v3 and RBG. New blood is good for the game, but one of the reasons why that is not happening in Legion, would be tanks generally and Guardian Druids specifically.

    Are tanks they only reason why people are not playing rated? Of course not. Is it one more piece of crap that adds to all the other pieces of crap that lead to new players saying 'fuq this shi*t?' I think so ...

    Forget the individual toolkit and consider the overall gaming experience, what I'm saying is it needs to be a very positive one for all of us!
    Last edited by Cempa; 2017-04-21 at 12:26 PM.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Krassz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Great! But I wasn't talking about arena .. I'll try rewording:

    On several occasions Blizzard staff have discussed how players get into arena, that being casual BG's first then they would dabble in Skrimeshes, and if they like it jump into 2v2 .. after some experience they go for 3v3 and RBG.

    New players don't do 3v3 and RBG out of the gate, at least not while having fun. If we can agree on that then we would also consider how gaming experience in 2v2 and skirmishes is going to influence the amount of players entering into rated.

    We all want to see more of the new WoW players eventually make it to 3v3 and RBG. New blood is good for the game, but one of the reasons why that is not happening in Legion, would be tanks generally and Guardian Druids specifically.

    Are tanks they only reason why people are not playing rated? Of course not. Is it one more piece of crap that adds to all the other pieces of crap that lead to new players saying 'fuq this shi*t?' I think so ...

    Forget the individual toolkit and consider the overall gaming experience, what I'm saying is it needs to be a very positive one for all of us!
    You realize skirmishes and arena are the same thing? Just that one doesn't have rating?

  14. #34
    Whether tanks are balanced and actually able to die is irrelevant.

    People keep raging when warriors are good, but I find the game most fun when warriors are good. High dmg + low self healing = fights are quick and fun, either you lose or the warrior loses.

    Then you have stupid sh*t like tanks / healers / rogues / mages / warlocks that either: 1) tank up and take way too long to kill 2) ice block 3) vanish and run around pillars until cows come home. Is it balanced that a rogue can't kill a warrior? No, no it isn't. Is it acceptable for a rogue to waste both his and the warrior's time by running around pillars for 40 minutes and making the warrior ragequit? No.

    Same thing applies to tanks. I don't care if they're killable or balanced. I care that it's annoying that a fight that he knows he can't win lasts 10 times as long as it should. That's what's bothering me about tanks, healers and certain dps in this game. Probably more than anything, the stupid ability to prolongue fights via cc / defensives / endless free healing beyond the point of outstaying their welcome.

    The classes in WoW and I'd argue the whole idea of arenas in WoW is not suited for fights longer than 2-3 minutes. If you find 10-15 minutes healer vs healer 2v2 slogs fun -- more power to you; But I would very much like an option for a queue without tanks or healers, for that reason.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2017-04-21 at 04:28 PM.

  15. #35
    I can remember being disgusted with prot paladins in season 6 during wotlk, but tanks in legion are way worse. Pvp in general is in the gutter and blizzard seem oblivious to it, seems their lead designers are surrounded by yes men rather than people willing to say the truth.

  16. #36
    I don't understand why Acti-Blizz refuses to have tanks play a support role in PvP? They insist tanks should be damage dealers BUT do a little less damage .. Rift, SWTOR and others had tanks play a really fun role which would be a great addition to WoW PvP. By focusing on mitigation and harrassment as well as resource pressure (by reducing targets resources) and adding Guard feature, you'd support the fantasy and make a good tank invaluable ..

    Having tanks run around like demigods will never be good for the game .. it's like when they decided healers should also pew pew ... that didn't go to well ...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    I don't understand why Acti-Blizz refuses to have tanks play a support role in PvP? They insist tanks should be damage dealers BUT do a little less damage .. Rift, SWTOR and others had tanks play a really fun role which would be a great addition to WoW PvP. By focusing on mitigation and harrassment as well as resource pressure (by reducing targets resources) and adding Guard feature, you'd support the fantasy and make a good tank invaluable ..

    Having tanks run around like demigods will never be good for the game .. it's like when they decided healers should also pew pew ... that didn't go to well ...
    For me that's the least of my concerns. There are far more serious issues with PVP declining.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  18. #38
    Seems i'm in the minority but I believe tanks shouldn't be able to Q for arena at all (Similar to how you can't Q double healer dps 3s). They should however, be balanced and designed with RBGs in mind.

    I think tanks are great for flag carrying and point defense, it still ruins my fun in the end, but I can accept them in BGs. Arena however, they just ruin the entire experience.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    A big problem with PvP is that the standard UI is doing a piss poor job of informing you about the abilities your enemy is using and the cooldowns they have up, while PvP mods actively highlight and warn you about them.
    Looking to get into PVP. What are these addons called?

    Thanks.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsno View Post
    Looking to get into PVP. What are these addons called?

    Thanks.
    Gladius, thats only addon you need. Rest simply grind and skill

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Christonya View Post
    Seems i'm in the minority but I believe tanks shouldn't be able to Q for arena at all (Similar to how you can't Q double healer dps 3s). They should however, be balanced and designed with RBGs in mind.

    I think tanks are great for flag carrying and point defense, it still ruins my fun in the end, but I can accept them in BGs. Arena however, they just ruin the entire experience.
    Every time i see tank in Rated Arena its a free win, every time i see tank in skrimish its a free win + talk shit rights to the tank when you win =)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •