How is unholy doing in patch 7.2?

[meumaxu]

Well im glad ive already got 3 UH leggos (bracer, ring, shoulders) because after yesterday´s buffs UH is gonna be so ahead of frost on ToS

[Deleted]

It works with Apocalypse, I'm certain

It'd be stupid if it didn't.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Well im glad ive already got 3 UH leggos (bracer, ring, shoulders) because after yesterday´s buffs UH is gonna be so ahead of frost on ToS

Doubt it.

They nerfed the template by 3% and moved that damage to the various abilities.

May still end up being a net buff..But maybe by 2-3%?? Who knows, but it's not going to be huge.

[garonne]

It'd be stupid if it didn't.

from whats given why would it?

[bjordin]

from whats given why would it?

Apocalypse specifically says it summons Army of the Dead members on use, so it's logical for it to work with new bonuses.

[Raiz]

Unholy is doing pretty fine when you have wrists (+60k dps upgrade) if you dont, you can still do great but wont top meters sucks we're wrists dependant...haven't been able to mythic raid but for heroic unholy seems okay with the new elite trait and for mythic+ you can use defile for some dungeons (if you do, frost shouldnt be able to have more aoe dps than you) after all frost build nowadays its just tunnel boss and maintain BoS the longest you're able to...

Also, 7.2.5 and the new tier bonus feels like Unholy will be really good for once, I mean for all the shit we have to do (to be doing same dps and some faceroll specs) on 7.2.5 we will finally reach the top sometimes (dps meters), I've always felt like our rotation was kind of chaotic but tested the new death coil and love it (also huge dps increase, like +50-60k dps the new changes)

60k dps is relative. I'd rather know the percentage than a simple plain number. I have absolutely no idea how much more damage you're doing when you say +60k. It could be +50% or +5%.

[Nerokin]

Apocalypse specifically says it summons Army of the Dead members on use, so it's logical for it to work with new bonuses.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the bonus specifically states that it applies to ghouls summoned by AotD, not AotD ghouls.

[Deleted]

im pretty sure if I use all CDs as Frost on whatever aoe targets I will do more than UHs in 7.2. :P

Yeah and you have to use a 5minute CD for it, compared to my 20seconds.

[varraz]

60k dps is relative. I'd rather know the percentage than a simple plain number. I have absolutely no idea how much more damage you're doing when you say +60k. It could be +50% or +5%.

actually 60k is an absolut value and 5 or 50% is a relative number :P

60k just doesnt "relate" to the usual damage and that why you want a relative number and not an absolute :P

[Raiz]

You perfectly understood my point. I'm tired of people saying they're doing X damage when it could mean it's only a 1% dps increase, meaning it could've been a simple RNG and not because of said talent or trait. You can't expect us to know what their ilvl are.

[Exotath]

Is there a way to test out the new unholy tier 20 bonuses on PTR yet?

[dmchellfire]

Unholy is doing pretty fine when you have wrists (+60k dps upgrade) if you dont, you can still do great but wont top meters sucks we're wrists dependant...haven't been able to mythic raid but for heroic unholy seems okay with the new elite trait and for mythic+ you can use defile for some dungeons (if you do, frost shouldnt be able to have more aoe dps than you) after all frost build nowadays its just tunnel boss and maintain BoS the longest you're able to...

Also, 7.2.5 and the new tier bonus feels like Unholy will be really good for once, I mean for all the shit we have to do (to be doing same dps and some faceroll specs) on 7.2.5 we will finally reach the top sometimes (dps meters), I've always felt like our rotation was kind of chaotic but tested the new death coil and love it (also huge dps increase, like +50-60k dps the new changes)

I have all Unholy Legendaries so far, except for the wrists, and I am running with Boots+Ring, and I am able to hang with all the heavy hitters in my guild, and this is speaking for a main raider perspective at 8/10 Mythic NH progression, I mostly finish in the middle of the pack on majority of the encounters without bracers, with very minimal difference between my dps, and the top 5, so we are totally viable for Mythic raiding without them, but I agree that having them would make somewhat of a difference.

If you have the correct gear, and play the class correctly, then the bracers shouldn't hold you back in Mythic NH.

[Deleted]

Legendaries have always been severely overrated in the discussion on how viable Unholy is. In fact Unholy always had one of the poorest sets of spec specific legendaries in the game. Hence, generic legendaries like the trinket/boots are actually good (which is only the case for 2-3 specs). The only outlier used to be the bracers, but not because they were so much stronger than legendaries for other specs, but because all the other spec specific legendaries are terrible in comparison.

With the new meta EF/CS/Necrosis I would argue that now all UH legendaries are pretty terrible and it barely makes a difference what you use. Yes, the bracers are still the best, but they give at most 2-3% of a dps increase compared to other legendaries.

[bjordin]

Normally I'd agree with you, but the bonus specifically states that it applies to ghouls summoned by AotD, not AotD ghouls.

Yeah I just noticed that; hopefully it works!

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[Poisongaz]

Doubt it.

They nerfed the template by 3% and moved that damage to the various abilities.

May still end up being a net buff..But maybe by 2-3%?? Who knows, but it's not going to be huge.

That is just wrong. Flat out wrong. This is from a post on Discord thats pinned in the UH channel.

"The change in the damage Aura as of 5/2/2017 is a net 3% damage increase to all listed abilities. It is not a removal of damage from the previous 6% increase, which has been added into all of the abilities baseline, and is currently live. The 3% aura on the PTR is the true damage buff for the current PTR cycle."

[sunbrother]

So that's a net 9% buff? That's really big and brings UH in line.

[Denaka]

I miss Unholy being good, but I like to play frost too, so I won't complain either way.

[Deleted]

So that's a net 9% buff? That's really big and brings UH in line.

It really isn't big, unless I've won the "unlucky" parse lottery, the 5 tests I've done so far have shown around a 3-4% increase. As someone aptly said on the Unholy Discord, that's virtually a rounding error. This is assuming you've taken the Necrosis build of course. Overall Clawing Shadow damage is still less on PTR than Live, despite the recent build. Necrosis is pretty much dead, being propped up by the other lacklustre buffs to other damage sources such as Death Coil, Festering Strike and Virulent plague. And what's worse on PTR? We're still at points resourced capped, because our rotation requires us to spend a bunch of GCD's that use no resources, SD procs, DT, Apocalype (which now grants too many or too little depending on your situation).

If you want raw numbers, so far I've hit 838k ST on a 6 minute dummy test. On live I got a lucky parse that hit 827k using the same gear set up. My "live" sim results are 784k for 6 minutes (so I got lucky), yet my fellow frost mage and BM hunter guildies can hit a million. They scoffed at the buffs which I reported to them.

Every time Unholy receives some sort of buff, a player will assume the best because he's parsed pretty well against his own spec, and every time there are vocal Unholy DK's who can plainly see that it's never enough, they're shot down for being too negative, yet here we are again.

Patch 7.2 with the new traits and other flat out 8% buffs that other classes have received and more logs being uploaded have shown yet again that we're last. Ignore short fights in EN Normal/Heroic, ignore the short rubbish in Nighthold Heroic, when mechanics come into play, we're sorely lacking, which filters down from the very best UH DK's to the very worst. In other words, we need substantial buffs to help a whole heap of players who choose to main Unholy.

You're right in thinking that Unholy is viable for Mythic raiding, we are. But it's taken a a mediocre buff in 7.1.5, a number of major nerfs to encounters, mythic gearing and a raid which has top dps classes to make your own spec viable in that environment. Even with good RNG and the stars align, your no.1 parse equates to a skilled Demon Hunter and Frost DK having a "bad day".

When ToS comes out, and even considering Heroic raiding, I will assume the later bosses needing significant damage output and I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to 800-900 ST damage (or close to it).

For now we'll just have to wait and see how the new tier bonus interacts with the seemingly god awful ToS trinkets, which have a "caveat" to maximise dps (one where you have to collect orbs that the trinket spawns to extend it's duration and one which stacks str 10 times provided you're above 80% HP).

[pies1]

Apocalypse specifically says it summons Army of the Dead members on use, so it's logical for it to work with new bonuses.

I used to have faith Blizzard were competent too. BC was a good time.

[VakeStorm]

For now we'll just have to wait and see how the new tier bonus interacts with the seemingly god awful ToS trinkets, which have a "caveat" to maximise dps (one where you have to collect orbs that the trinket spawns to extend it's duration and one which stacks str 10 times provided you're above 80% HP).

Is the shadow dot trinket, which seems to scale with our mastery, not that good? I haven't looked into the trinkets really or any of the testing happening right now but that seems like if it does indeed scale with our mastery that it would be pretty significant. Maybe only in M+ where you would be able to use it more?