Evacuated Tube Transport - Is this ever going anywhere?

[Docturphil]

So I heard about Evacuated Tube Transport several years ago. Seemed like a great idea, but it doesn't seem like they've made any progress in years.

If you've never heard of it the idea is basically to create a long vacuum tube big enough to fit a capsule in it which can transport people. Additionally they use maglev technology to allow the capsule to float. With the combination of the vacuum and maglev you have basically 0 friction allowing the capsule to reach incredible speeds with minimal energy costs.

They proposed that with this technology you could get from New York to LA in 45 minutes and from New York to China in 2 hours. Max speed would be around 4,000 MPH.

They're also saying it would be incredibly energy efficient and the track would cost significantly less than building a railway or freeway.

You can read more about it here: http://www.et3.com/

So why hasn't this taken off yet? Is there some engineering problem they're having issues overcoming? Are investors just not interested? Is big oil trying to shut them down? What's the deal?

[Azadina]

Humans don't do very well crashing to the other end at 4000 MPH, or survive capsule breach in a vacuum. First things that come to mind.

[Netherspark]

Several "Hyperloop" test tracks are currently nearing completion. Tests will begin proper in 1-2 years.

[Docturphil]

Humans don't do very well crashing to the other end at 4000 MPH, or survive capsule breach in a vacuum. First things that come to mind.

They don't do very well crashing at 70 MPH in a car or 500 MPH in an airplane either. Dead is dead. You can't really be extra dead.

[Azadina]

They don't do very well crashing at 70 MPH in a car or 500 MPH in an airplane either. Dead is dead. You can't really be extra dead.

Much faster to slow down a car going 70 on the road, than tube going 4000 with no friction. How's it going to slow down without any?

[Docturphil]

Several "Hyperloop" test tracks are currently nearing completion. Tests will begin proper in 1-2 years.

Oh? Got any links with more info? Where is this at?

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Much faster to slow down a car going 70 on the road, than tube going 4000 with no friction. How's it going to slow down without any?

Maglev. It can slow it down the same way it speeds up. Magnets.

[Tijuana]

So I heard about Evacuated Tube Transport several years ago. Seemed like a great idea, but it doesn't seem like they've made any progress in years.

If you've never heard of it the idea is basically to create a long vacuum tube big enough to fit a capsule in it which can transport people. Additionally they use maglev technology to allow the capsule to float. With the combination of the vacuum and maglev you have basically 0 friction allowing the capsule to reach incredible speeds with minimal energy costs.

They proposed that with this technology you could get from New York to LA in 45 minutes and from New York to China in 2 hours. Max speed would be around 4,000 MPH.

They're also saying it would be incredibly energy efficient and the track would cost significantly less than building a railway or freeway.

You can read more about it here: http://www.et3.com/

So why hasn't this taken off yet? Is there some engineering problem they're having issues overcoming? Are investors just not interested? Is big oil trying to shut them down? What's the deal?

It seems like folly to me. The earth doesn't just sit still. Anything this long would require a ton of maintenance, just due to shifts in the Earth. It doesn't seem like there would be enough routes to go around lengthy re-construction or maintenance.

For example, the railway system is under constant maintenance, and it's not underground even. They have repairs down to a science they happen so quickly.

They also never explained how the human body would be able to withstand the G forces while turning, etc.

[Flatspriest]

Oh? Got any links with more info? Where is this at?

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Maglev. It can slow it down the same way it speeds up. Magnets.

I read something on MSN about it a few weeks ago. What that article said was that they are still in development and that they would mainly be used to transport freight, not humans. As to how they slow the tubes down, start turning the magnets off so that the tubes stop floating or reverse the polarity on the magnets since they are electromagnets and not normal magnets.

[Azadina]

Maglev. It can slow it down the same way it speeds up. Magnets.

Ok, and when power shorts out, assuming they are electrical ones? What about breach of any kind of the outer tube? How long are you stuck in the tube while it's patched, and new vacuum is created over 1000 miles of tube for example?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Maglev. It can slow it down the same way it speeds up. Magnets.

Fuckin' Magnets...how do they work?

[Docturphil]

It seems like folly to me. The earth doesn't just sit still. Anything this long would require a ton of maintenance, just due to shifts in the Earth. It doesn't seem like there would be enough routes to go around lengthy re-construction or maintenance.

For example, the railway system is under constant maintenance, and it's not underground even. They have repairs down to a science they happen so quickly.

Seems like a legitimate engineering concern, but if they have it down with railroads it seems like they could come up with a solution with evacuated tubes as well since they claim the materials cost significantly less. I'd imagine they would be able to lock sections of the tube and re-route everyone while they do repairs.

They also never explained how the human body would be able to withstand the G forces while turning, etc.

I'd imagine the turns would be gradual enough where it wouldn't be an issue. I remember reading on how supposedly the G forces are less than what you would experience on an airplane because of how it gradually speeds up or something. They did address this issue.

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Fuckin' Magnets...how do they work?

Pretty sure it's magic.

[Sergar]

There are so many problems with this idea, and not all of them are able to be easily engineered away. Any super high speed rails system that can be destroyed with a pistol, probably killing all involved is going to be a bad idea. And what about the extreme energy costs of creating a vacuum large enough to be useful for transport?

[Docturphil]

Ok, and when power shorts out, assuming they are electrical ones? What about breach of any kind of the outer tube? How long are you stuck in the tube while it's patched, and new vacuum is created over 1000 miles of tube for example?

Well with my very, very limited engineering knowledge on the matter I'd imagine they would design it so that sections of the tube could be locked off to prevent the whole thing from filling up in the event of a breach. They would then re-route any capsules until repairs have been completed. In the event of an emergency you should be able to slow down a capsule quick enough. Seems unlikely a breach would end up killing anyone although under the right conditions it probably could.

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There are so many problems with this idea, and not all of them are able to be easily engineered away. Any super high speed rails system that can be destroyed with a pistol, probably killing all involved is going to be a bad idea. And what about the extreme energy costs of creating a vacuum large enough to be useful for transport?

I feel like you'd have to do a bit more than shoot it with a gun. Seems like they would be able to design it to withstand such an impact. And besides all that, I'm pretty sure such an act leading to death would come with a manslaughter charge. Most people wouldn't fuck around with that.

I don't know. What would the energy cost be to create a vacuum that big? I have no idea to be honest.

[Rothg]

Texas A&M recently hosted a very cool engineering competition sponsored by Elon Musk himself. Various university teams came up with prototype ideas for the hyperloop, as well as ideas to circumvent possible problems. MIT and A&M has some very, very cool designs. While there are a lot of potential problems, there is also a lot of support and interest for the idea. I would be surprised if we didn't hear more news on this soon.

[Docturphil]

Hyperloop is, like almost all of the most amazing stuff these days, the brain-child of none other than Elon Musk. So far none of his projects really failed, so I'm quite confident that we'll at least have a hand full of long distance tracks of this kind some day.

Ahh... https://hyperloop-one.com/

So Elon Musk is going for it, eh? 2021 is their goal for human transport. Exciting stuff. I hope it works out.

Looks like they're working on an Orlando to Miami line and a Reno to Vegas line.

[Mister Cheese]

Never will happen. Please watch this as why. He disproves it in the first 10 minutes as to why it would never work anyway. Don't even need to see the whole thing.

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They don't do very well crashing at 70 MPH in a car or 500 MPH in an airplane either. Dead is dead. You can't really be extra dead.

You don't do very well traveling inside on what's equivalent to the inside of a giant gun either. Considering that's all it takes to make this thing explode. The problem isn't that. The problem is that when the tube ruptures, it doesn't just kill you. All that pressure from the outside of the tube rushes into it. Tons of pressure goes into the tube, at the speed of sound.

[Docturphil]

Never will happen. Please watch this as why. He disproves it in the first 10 minutes as to why it would never work anyway. Don't even need to see the whole thing.

Alright so there's some issues with it. Nonetheless Mr. Musk seems to be going for it. Perhaps he and his engineering team have founds ways around these issues.

[Stormspark]

There would have to be a massive infrastructure made to make these feasable, rivaling the interstate highway system. And it would be much less convenient than what people are used to. I could see a couple lines being built to go between specific cities, but it would really be a niche thing. Unfortunately we don't live in Futurama.

[Revi]

There's so many problems with the hyperloop that there's no good ways to solve atm, don't think it's going to happen any time soon.

It'd have to be thousands of times larger than the largest vacuum rooms ever built, while being exposed to the elements and all other problems that occur in structures stretched over those distance, and endure the stress of vehicles weighing tons through them. Vacuum isn't an easy thing to make at that scale.

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Texas A&M recently hosted a very cool engineering competition sponsored by Elon Musk himself. Various university teams came up with prototype ideas for the hyperloop, as well as ideas to circumvent possible problems. MIT and A&M has some very, very cool designs. While there are a lot of potential problems, there is also a lot of support and interest for the idea. I would be surprised if we didn't hear more news on this soon.

I watched a tiny bit of that. Didn't it all fail miserably?

[Zmaniac17]

So I heard about Evacuated Tube Transport several years ago. Seemed like a great idea, but it doesn't seem like they've made any progress in years.

If you've never heard of it the idea is basically to create a long vacuum tube big enough to fit a capsule in it which can transport people. Additionally they use maglev technology to allow the capsule to float. With the combination of the vacuum and maglev you have basically 0 friction allowing the capsule to reach incredible speeds with minimal energy costs.

They proposed that with this technology you could get from New York to LA in 45 minutes and from New York to China in 2 hours. Max speed would be around 4,000 MPH.

They're also saying it would be incredibly energy efficient and the track would cost significantly less than building a railway or freeway.

You can read more about it here: http://www.et3.com/

So why hasn't this taken off yet? Is there some engineering problem they're having issues overcoming? Are investors just not interested? Is big oil trying to shut them down? What's the deal?

One of the major issues new technology faces is production. Creating a company and figuring out how to produce it at cost is the biggest hurdle. Once you have the personnel and expertise in place to start you're almost 60% of the way there. That's why you see amazing things like solid state batteries that exist but aren't available to consumers. This is why electric cars took so long to get under production. Ultimately the driving force is a company, person or group that really wants to do it. The market doesn't know it wants electric cars until someone gives them an electric car. The technology is there and progress is being made.

With that said there are three companies at different stages in developing this tech. Here is one https://hyperloop-one.com/

http://www.spacex.com/hyperloop


This is interesting as well. It applies to normal trains but it highlights some of the issues they face as compared to airlines. A lot of the things aren't immediately obvious. I believe many of the issues could be overcome by ETT. Airlines are going to face problems with pollution regulations and oil prices in the future. So a good alternative is certainly going to be needed.


I actually meant to post this video. Oops. That's a good one too though


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Much faster to slow down a car going 70 on the road, than tube going 4000 with no friction. How's it going to slow down without any?

But there are much fewer things to crash into when you're in an empty tube. As opposed to driving a car down a freeway. My guess is it would be exponentially safer. Don't believe all the movies that show a tiny leak causing explosive decompression or sucking people out of it. In reality a tiny leak is just that. A tiny leak.

Also most routes that were short would not reach 4000 mph. They would likely accelerate at a comfortable level for passengers and slow at the same rate. So unless you were travelling across the continent you wouldn't reach those speeds.

This video is about mass drivers but it covers a lot of the issues a ETT could face since it's a similar idea. Put a ship in a vacuum tube and accelerate it electromagnetically. This guy goes into a lot of detail on it. He makes some pretty amazing videos on Space and Technology.