Looking to buy this, but I'm not a tech guy

[Lathais]

All those test I've seen (you probably aswell) have serious methodology problems, using top rigs with highend X370 boards and top memory for testing, all of which benefits Ryzen performance and doesnt for locked i5s, all of which an average budget gaming rig buyer wouldnt have. Ability to overclock is useful but mostly irrelevant due to lack of capable B350 boards (also their price) and cooling requirements.

Ummm, nope. Actually, a few I looked at used B350 boards and most could not get the RAM clocked any higher than 2133 due to current issues with Ryzen still not being solved. Even under that constraint though the 1600 did better in some titles, worse in others, really less than5% difference in all cases, so I really don't know what you are talking about.

Again, the simple fact that the 1600 can be overclocked pushes it to around equal to the 7500, for right around the same price. I know this is hard for a lot of people to take in, but it's true.

[Evildeffy]

Ummm, nope. Actually, a few I looked at used B350 boards and most could not get the RAM clocked any higher than 2133 due to current issues with Ryzen still not being solved. Even under that constraint though the 1600 did better in some titles, worse in others, really less than5% difference in all cases, so I really don't know what you are talking about.

Again, the simple fact that the 1600 can be overclocked pushes it to around equal to the 7500, for right around the same price. I know this is hard for a lot of people to take in, but it's true.

I have so far built 7 Ryzen 5/B350 rigs, all with the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus board and every single one (mixed with 1600 and 1600X CPUs) pushed 2933MHz no problem on SK Hynix ICs, BIOS version 0606.
3200 it wouldn't be entirely stable, which I suspect with a DRAM Voltage boost to 1.4V would very likely have made it stable.

There is no reason when you have the option of going either i5-7500 or Ryzen 5 1600 to NOT go for the 1600, it makes no sense in any form or way.

A new BIOS version has been released to 0609 as well which improves RAM compatibility but right now I'm leaving the speeds at 2933 where I used all Corsair LPX DDR4-3200 16GB kits.

If you can't get above 2133 then you have a REALLY shitty Ryzen silicon lottery number.

[Lathais]

I have so far built 7 Ryzen 5/B350 rigs, all with the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus board and every single one (mixed with 1600 and 1600X CPUs) pushed 2933MHz no problem on SK Hynix ICs, BIOS version 0606.
3200 it wouldn't be entirely stable, which I suspect with a DRAM Voltage boost to 1.4V would very likely have made it stable.

There is no reason when you have the option of going either i5-7500 or Ryzen 5 1600 to NOT go for the 1600, it makes no sense in any form or way.

A new BIOS version has been released to 0609 as well which improves RAM compatibility but right now I'm leaving the speeds at 2933 where I used all Corsair LPX DDR4-3200 16GB kits.

If you can't get above 2133 then you have a REALLY shitty Ryzen silicon lottery number.

I think some of these benchmarks I was looking at were earlier benchmarks, or not ASUS boards. Either way, his claim that the benchmarks I was looking at were all running high end boards with high speed RAM were false. There are plenty out there with B350s and running 2133mHz on the RAM. His claim that the 7500 has no competition from AMD is just blatantly false. The G4560 is still a great budget deal, but there is about zero reason to buy an i3 or an i5 currently. Some arguments can be made for i7's though I still think AMD is the better overall choice there as well.

[Fascinate]

I have so far built 7 Ryzen 5/B350 rigs, all with the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus board and every single one (mixed with 1600 and 1600X CPUs) pushed 2933MHz no problem on SK Hynix ICs, BIOS version 0606.
3200 it wouldn't be entirely stable, which I suspect with a DRAM Voltage boost to 1.4V would very likely have made it stable.

There is no reason when you have the option of going either i5-7500 or Ryzen 5 1600 to NOT go for the 1600, it makes no sense in any form or way.

A new BIOS version has been released to 0609 as well which improves RAM compatibility but right now I'm leaving the speeds at 2933 where I used all Corsair LPX DDR4-3200 16GB kits.

If you can't get above 2133 then you have a REALLY shitty Ryzen silicon lottery number.

My hynix still wont go above 2400, tried everything. I had some samsung tridents 4000 that did 2933 but wouldnt do 3200, but i sent em back too expensive for the small gains you get.

[Evildeffy]

I think some of these benchmarks I was looking at were earlier benchmarks, or not ASUS boards. Either way, his claim that the benchmarks I was looking at were all running high end boards with high speed RAM were false. There are plenty out there with B350s and running 2133mHz on the RAM. His claim that the 7500 has no competition from AMD is just blatantly false. The G4560 is still a great budget deal, but there is about zero reason to buy an i3 or an i5 currently. Some arguments can be made for i7's though I still think AMD is the better overall choice there as well.

In my opinion, even for WoW, there is no reason to get a current i5 (not accounting for anything like Coffee Lake because that's not present yet and won't be for a while) over the Ryzen 5 offerings, high-end RAM or not.
Intel gains the same profits with higher RAM just slightly less than AMD, that said all AMD boards should be able to push higher RAM speeds.
Intel limits your RAM speed to 2400MHz with Kaby Lake and 2133 with Skylake if you do not own a Z170 or Z270 chipset.

Even when the i5-7600K is pushed to 4,8GHz it often still ties or presses/loses the advantage by a very slight margin vs. a 3,9 - 4,0GHz 1600/1600X.
Not worth it to get the i5 unless you're either very brand loyal or a fanboy (I distinguish these 2 things, do not presume I am immediately insulting people).

The i7-7700K is the only one worth the effort of the consumer line because of it's general higher binning vs. the i5-7600K and because it's got 8 threads along with 4,9 - 5,0GHz of OC potential and that's only for pure gaming reasons, if productivity is involved in CPU bound scenarios the 1600/1600X will beat the i7-7700K even if it's OCed out of it's arse.

So the only consumer line left for Intel is the G4560 and the i7-7700K that's a "worthwhile" purchase over the AMD counterparts.

Again I'm not counting Coffee Lake in here because we don't know what it'll end up as but be aware of the following:
If Coffee Lake continues the current silicon then you should expect the 6C CPUs (possibly i5 and i7) to NOT clock as high as their current Kaby Lake counterparts.
This is a physical "wall" that both Intel and AMD are at and it simply means the more cores you stick on a die the harder it is to overclock.
Temperatures and power draw rise exponentially for either brand, so don't think that "Oh Intel's 6-core will overclock like a Kaby Lake and have the power consumption of a Kaby Lake i7-7700k!!!11oneoneone" .. it will rise JUST as much as the Ryzen series and JUST as much as any of the HEDT line of CPUs from Intel.
Coffee Lake is still 14nm and is presumably the same silicon as Skylake/Kaby Lake, just refined and expanded, and the more complex you make said silicon the more difficult it is to change something with it without drastic impacts.

[Fascinate]

lol ive been saying that for months, intel has 2 cpu's worth considering right now. Yet people always disagree with me.

[Evildeffy]

My hynix still wont go above 2400, tried everything. I had some samsung tridents 4000 that did 2933 but wouldnt do 3200, but i sent em back too expensive for the small gains you get.

The ASUS boards you load up DOCP, which simply reads out the values of XMP and applies them, and instead of 3200MHz you select 2933MHz, that's it.
That's how ALL of them I've made so far worked, including the Flare X RAM kit from G.Skill on X370 boards except I didn't need to reduce frequency.

Your board, no idea which you have, may simply suck or you just have a seriously crummy Ryzen silicon lottery chip.
Can you borrow another board and try again? For budget boards I very much like the cleanliness and UEFI of the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus .. perhaps temp buy and test?

[Fascinate]

The ASUS boards you load up DOCP, which simply reads out the values of XMP and applies them, and instead of 3200MHz you select 2933MHz, that's it.
That's how ALL of them I've made so far worked, including the Flare X RAM kit from G.Skill on X370 boards except I didn't need to reduce frequency.

Your board, no idea which you have, may simply suck or you just have a seriously crummy Ryzen silicon lottery chip.
Can you borrow another board and try again? For budget boards I very much like the cleanliness and UEFI of the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus .. perhaps temp buy and test?

Trust me ive tried literally everything, ive even tried unplugging the power to my rig (after cmos reset, before it boots to windows) to see if memory training resets itself, it just wont go above 2400 strap. My board is x370 killer, great board actually just hates my particular kit of hynix ram. Like i said the samsung stuff i had did 2933 just fine, so its just waiting on bios updates.

[Evildeffy]

Trust me ive tried literally everything, ive even tried unplugging the power to my rig (after cmos reset, before it boots to windows) to see if memory training resets itself, it just wont go above 2400 strap. My board is x370 killer, great board actually just hates my particular kit of hynix ram. Like i said the samsung stuff i had did 2933 just fine, so its just waiting on bios updates.

Again... go out and temporarily buy a ASUS PRIME B350-Plus and simply try it out, if a cheaper board can work with it then you know ASRock is slacking hard with their BIOSes, in fact there are quite a few people complaining that ASRock's memory reading is terrible.

Either that or if you want an X370 chip... grab an ASUS PRIME X370-Pro, I've had good success with these as well.

I've personally only had bad luck with ASRock, anecdotal I know, but still .. if the B350 can do it and ASRock's X370 still can't ... that's not a good thing.

[Fascinate]

Again... go out and temporarily buy a ASUS PRIME B350-Plus and simply try it out, if a cheaper board can work with it then you know ASRock is slacking hard with their BIOSes, in fact there are quite a few people complaining that ASRock's memory reading is terrible.

Either that or if you want an X370 chip... grab an ASUS PRIME X370-Pro, I've had good success with these as well.

I've personally only had bad luck with ASRock, anecdotal I know, but still .. if the B350 can do it and ASRock's X370 still can't ... that's not a good thing.

I am one of the weirdos that likes to color coordinate their builds, asrock killer was best match : ) For now im cool with low cas 2400, if by may (big agesa update) im still at 2400 ill consider other options.

Just as an aside what hynix sticks are you finding work at 2933 no problem? These are mine: (got em for 98 bucks on sale)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820231941

[Evildeffy]

I am one of the weirdos that likes to color coordinate their builds, asrock killer was best match : ) For now im cool with low cas 2400, if by may (big agesa update) im still at 2400 ill consider other options.

Just as an aside what hynix sticks are you finding work at 2933 no problem? These are mine: (got em for 98 bucks on sale)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820231941

These are ALL 3200MHz kits but they were Corsair LPX kits, Some random ass Team Group series of the Vulcan and Delta model modules, Kingston HyperX etc.
Done a few 3000MHz kits from Micron (Crucial Ballistix) as well at 2933, no problem.
All the standard kits really across B350 and X370 ranges from ASUS boards, mostly the PRIME series for cost effectiveness.

The one ASUS Crosshair IV Hero I made included an 1800X as well as G.Skill Flare X 3200MHz which was just selecting DOCP and nothing else.

It's hilarious you mention colour co-ordination and your new-found fondness for Ryzen though as you dismissed both looks in the M.2 SATA SSD topic as well as Ryzen when I told you to "wait and see" what it becomes when you were dead set it was going to be shit.

[Fascinate]

These are ALL 3200MHz kits but they were Corsair LPX kits, Some random ass Team Group series of the Vulcan and Delta model modules, Kingston HyperX etc.
Done a few 3000MHz kits from Micron (Crucial Ballistix) as well at 2933, no problem.
All the standard kits really across B350 and X370 ranges from ASUS boards, mostly the PRIME series for cost effectiveness.

The one ASUS Crosshair IV Hero I made included an 1800X as well as G.Skill Flare X 3200MHz which was just selecting DOCP and nothing else.

It's hilarious you mention colour co-ordination and your new-found fondness for Ryzen though as you dismissed both looks in the M.2 SATA SSD topic as well as Ryzen when I told you to "wait and see" what it becomes when you were dead set it was going to be shit.

Well actually most m.2's have green or blue PCB's, you have to spend a butt load to get a good looking black one I still wouldnt buy a sata m.2 over 2.5" unless i found it for a lot less money, and only way i would buy a nvme is if it came with a heatsink on it lol.

As for ryzen pre launch, i never said it was going to be shit but i was correct in predicting its performance and overclocking, yet i still bought one Just awesome value for the money. I was in a rare scenario tho, even single threaded performance was better than my 2500k so it was an upgrade all around, if i was on say a 4670k i may have went with intel again. I may even go back to intel depending on what they do with the next i5's, rumors point to 6 cores.....and if they overclock well and stay cool this ryzen 7 might be going on ebay lol.

As for ram its still early days, check this:
https://www.gskill.com/en/configurat...952&model=2987

Not even their 185 dollar kit of "amd certified" memory is on here, so they arent having success with this board yet.

[Evildeffy]

Well actually most m.2's have green or blue PCB's, you have to spend a butt load to get a good looking black one I still wouldnt buy a sata m.2 over 2.5" unless i found it for a lot less money, and only way i would buy a nvme is if it came with a heatsink on it lol.

Missing the point, but not a point of discussion, I'll accept your silent admission as "Sorry, you were right."

As for ryzen pre launch, i never said it was going to be shit but i was correct in predicting its performance and overclocking, yet i still bought one Just awesome value for the money. I was in a rare scenario tho, even single threaded performance was better than my 2500k so it was an upgrade all around, if i was on say a 4670k i may have went with intel again. I may even go back to intel depending on what they do with the next i5's, rumors point to 6 cores.....and if they overclock well and stay cool this ryzen 7 might be going on ebay lol.

I could quote your exact less friendly words but I'll leave it at that.
As far as Intel's Coffee Lake goes.. I told you what to expect, don't think it'll be any more efficient than Ryzen, clocking higher probably yes but not cooler and more efficient.

As for ram its still early days, check this:
https://www.gskill.com/en/configurat...952&model=2987

Not even their 185 dollar kit of "amd certified" memory is on here, so they arent having success with this board yet.

Most of those references are just because of the limitation regarding AMD's chipset, same goes for Intel's 2400MHz limitation.
In this case it's not G.Skill's fault nor AMD's fault, this laziness is purely on ASRock right now.

[Lathais]

Did you quote the wrong person?

Side thought: Ram issues were for the most part fixed with Bios updates over a month ago. There's still some things that need to be changed above 3000Mhz

Yes, yes I did. Not sure how that happened. Meant to quote Thunderball because he told me that the benchmarks I looked at were with X370 Boards and High Clocked RAM.