Enh shammy in 7.2.5

[EasymodeX]

So what you are saying is you just want to hit SS over and over and over again. That sounds fun.

Cute strawman so you can pretend you're making a coherent argument.

Pre-7.2.5 an SB proc led to a fairly clear prioritization of your next 2 GCDs. Outside of LL spam, other abilities had a fairly low chance to proc SB, so it was "unlikely" to get a proc unexpectedly. As a result you switched between "SB", "RB/FT/IB", and "LL" every few GCDs.

In 7.2.5 the SB only lasts for 1 GCD, and any ability can proc SB. As a result there's no consistent pattern to the execution. Now it is "SB RB FT IB LL HH" at any time, checked every GCD.

Hence, frenetic execution with more pure randomness at every GCD, whereas pre-7.2.5 had an ebb and flow to execution.

That was the problem that was to be addressed, was the RNG of strings of SB procs where you do nothing but mash the SS button for 15 seconds and then go without any procs for 15 seconds.

Must be fun talking to yourself about an argument you fabricated.

The fixes put in place were to smooth out the SB procs so you actually can use other abilities.

You could use other abilities pre-7.2.5 and it was a matter of strategy and risk management on where you wanted to use them.

I must say that the changes for Enhance have been spectacular and I am really happy with the changes.

That's nice. That doesn't give you any right to mischaracterize what I said and intentionally fabricate your own version of reality to masturbate to. But maybe you made an honest mistake and just have a hard time with english, my bad.

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Dunno if it's intentional or a bug but if you're in the situation where you have ascendance and use stormstrike before activating ascendance the cooldown doesn't reset so you waste a lot of uptime.

Yeah I was getting a lot of that last night. I have the two macro'd together (Ascendance before Stormstrike). It seems like the conversion from Stormstrike to whatever Ascendance's version is called (Wind Strike?) doesn't take place immediately. This means I'll have to manually activate Ascendance a half GCD or full GCD before I begin to use DW+SS. How obnoxious.

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That aside, Hot Hands is pretty questionable to me now. I'm using it because I'm using AK/TN still, but the lower proc rate combined with the more sporadic and staggered SB procs means there's a hell of a lot less LF stacking going on. Pre-7.2.5 I was able to hold stacks for HH with a moderate frequency, but post-7.2.5 that's more of an impossibility with LLs and HHs getting expended very often in between SBs.

Once the APLs settle down I'll have to look at a comparison with alternative legendaries. I feel like HH will be marginalized in favor of Landslide unless its raw numbers maintain its competitivenses, which would mean less synergy for AK, HS, etc.

[Deleted]

Yeah I was getting a lot of that last night. I have the two macro'd together (Ascendance before Stormstrike). It seems like the conversion from Stormstrike to whatever Ascendance's version is called (Wind Strike?) doesn't take place immediately. This means I'll have to manually activate Ascendance a half GCD or full GCD before I begin to use DW+SS. How obnoxious.

It works fine with the legendary gloves proccing so it seems unintentional. It's reminiscent of the bug we had where SB would proc but the cooldown wouldn't reset.

[valorious]

I am fine with how enh is working atm, although i will say that a tone of our dmg comes from LL and SS. It would feel nice to have our "weapon" enhancement actually feel like that make a impact. Whenever i use a gcd buffing myself, it seems to feel rather insignificant but necessary

[psir]

I am fine with how Enhancement feels, but my dps is EXACTLY the same as before. I even sim alittle lower.

Am I missing something here? I am 907 ilevel, got legendary helmet and trinket. Specc into Ascendance and Landslide.

[Deleted]

I am fine with how Enhancement feels, but my dps is EXACTLY the same as before. I even sim alittle lower.

Am I missing something here? I am 907 ilevel, got legendary helmet and trinket. Specc into Ascendance and Landslide.

It might be a dumb question but have you updated your sim program to 7.2.5?

[psir]

It might be a dumb question but have you updated your sim program to 7.2.5?

Edited: I actually had the newest version, and yes I am simming the same as before :P

[Murderdoll]

So what is Your choice of talents guys? I stick to Akainu + EotTW, but the talents... duh, I've really can't choose the best option. HH/Lnd, AS/HS, Asc/ES, all of them seems really good, so really long day of testing before me.

With AK and Ring youre pretty much locked into HH/HS untill you get the new legendaries which open up the new combo.

With HS i prefer Ascendance because I found Earthen Spike + Hailstorm refreshing really made the rotation feel weird. I also found that with Overcharge I was quite MP starved at times.

I ran with HH/HS/Temp/ASC.

[Deleted]

So what is Your choice of talents guys? I stick to Akainu + EotTW, but the talents... duh, I've really can't choose the best option. HH/Lnd, AS/HS, Asc/ES, all of them seems really good, so really long day of testing before me.

Got the gloves early so I went for LS/AS/Tempest/CS/ES

Only major difference from before 7.2.5 is me plopping ES where HS was and it feels better because you just use it on cooldown.

[Vuudoo]

Edited: I actually had the newest version, and yes I am simming the same as before :P

I sim the same but I have dropped about 80k. Are the new builds completely reliant on EoTN? I have been greatly unlucky on leggos on my sham even though I have over 27 days played at 110 I only have 1 non-utility leggo. From the logs it appears the EotN is in every build with writs or helm as the other.

[miffy23]

Low sample size still but...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ion=3&sample=1

It looks like there's 3 tiers of performers right now. Top outliers are Arms, affliction and destruction. "The pack" is us, demonology, outlaw, frost(dk), windwalker, fury, balance, havoc, assassination, feral, and unholy (less than a 2% spread between these specs - I'm actually surprised at how well balanced they came out for nighthold). A step down from "the pack" is a second "I wish I was part of the other pack" pack with subtlety, marksmanship, shadow, frost(mage), BM, ele, ret, fire, arcane, and survival.

Anyway, point is we don't seem like a clear outlier right now. The spec is definitely strong on these 3-4 min farm kills though.

One can only hope. I don't see us dropping much on longer kills on progress, if anything we have even better priority target nuke right now and better sustain on top of it. Unless Tomb Mythic encounters suddenly add a crap ton of repeated add waves we're looking pretty darn solid - and even then our boss damage through cleave got even stronger atm.

[op3l]

I like the changes. Did the WQ boss yesterday and instead of the old streaky SS procs, the game play feels much smoother. DPS as a result went up quite a bit for me too. Was holding steady 600k throughout the fight with bursts due to SS procs netting about 20k more dps.

I hope they don't nerf us to the ground because it feels absolutely fine right now. Makes me want to play my shaman again.

[Hashcrypt]

Was really excited for Enh changes, but after using them I'm not so sure. There's almost no predictability with the spec anymore. It feels cumbersome to play now. Idk maybe I'll get used to it, but so far I'd say old tempest made the spec feel better and more fun to play.

[psir]

I like the new feel of it, I really do. But damn... we have a lot of buttons to press. I have to swap out my keyboard (metallic sound, and it's annoying as hell), because I am smashing buttons from that boss encounter starts untill it's over. Almost no "natural" breaks in the button smashing at all

I am however not very impressed with the numbers we generate, but we'll have to wait and see untill ToS next week.

[Foxhoundn]

Has anyone seen sims with the new Legendary rings? I just got mine today and have no idea if I should go with it - Tempest + Overcharge :/

[miffy23]

Has anyone seen sims with the new Legendary rings? I just got mine today and have no idea if I should go with it - Tempest + Overcharge :/

Get the Simc addon and use the Raidbots site, simply sim multiple sets of leggos. Or you could learn how to perform these functions yourself in Simulationcraft, with both variable legendary combinations and talent setups simultaneously.

Either way if you want to optimize you won't get around simming yourself - generic sims give a rough idea of relative strength, but it can always, and often does, vary greatly for your individual gear and stat level.

[Foxhoundn]

Get the Simc addon and use the Raidbots site, simply sim multiple sets of leggos. Or you could learn how to perform these functions yourself in Simulationcraft, with both variable legendary combinations and talent setups simultaneously.

Either way if you want to optimize you won't get around simming yourself - generic sims give a rough idea of relative strength, but it can always, and often does, vary greatly for your individual gear and stat level.

I know how to sim but the latest SimCraft is 720, so I suppose the new rings aren't in yet? Thanks for the raidbots site, looks good.

[miffy23]

I know how to sim but the latest SimCraft is 720, so I suppose the new rings aren't in yet? Thanks for the raidbots site, looks good.

You simply add the string of the new ring (found via wowhead for example) in Simcraft. The most uptodate sims for Enh (found on the class discord, for example), are run with T20 gear templates and involving all legendaries. As a rule of thumb- most of the good legendaries are fairly close. Gloves, ring, bracers and the new ring as well as head are all very good. The glove + EoTN ring combo seems to pull ahead a bit in T20 gear.

[sebax313]

Has anyone seen sims with the new Legendary rings? I just got mine today and have no idea if I should go with it - Tempest + Overcharge :/

if i remember correctly those two are really close. so untill u have new hands legendary i would stick to emproved stormlash in raids its less complex to play with it.

[miffy23]

OC is much harder to pull off, and it's a lot more work for sometimes the same or slightly less reward. So Stormlash would be your safer bet, yes.

[Phaty]

I know how to sim but the latest SimCraft is 720, so I suppose the new rings aren't in yet? Thanks for the raidbots site, looks good.

If you goto the nightly builds on the simcraft site you can get a 725 build. Or just use raidbots, it's updayed for 7.2.5. Personally my Sims have increased by 110k