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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Thats what is most frustrating.

    These band aids are literally the most boring uninspired and lazy changes they could have come up with and do nothing to fix any actual issues.

  2. #42
    Lul shaman changes, atleast they added talents to right spec. I dont wanna wake up and find out my resto has stormstrike xD

  3. #43
    I do not understand how they can nerf a class that is already at the bottom of the rankings ?
    They should stop drinking..

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazzek View Post
    I do not understand how they can nerf a class that is already at the bottom of the rankings ?
    They should stop drinking..
    or maybe start :P


    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfat View Post
    >looks at voodoo totem
    >looks at you
    >looks back at voodoo totem
    At least 2 are mostly fine!

  6. #46
    I heard devs will rename this class to enchancement shaman xD

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarox View Post
    I heard devs will rename this class to enchancement shaman xD
    Knowing them they'll probably nerf that too though.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by chesder View Post
    I like the change to Tempest, having said way back that this should be what it does, but it is too low of a value. At around 7% additional proc rate we end up the same number of Stormstrikes as the live version. If they want this to be a worthwhile talent they will have to up the value to at least 7% but preferably higher.

    The Boulderfist change is a lot of non content. It does nothing except possibly smooth the rotation timing out but it is certainly not a good talent.

    I like that they are willing to try things, but they need to understand that Enhance suffers in 3 areas.

    1. Single target DPS is random due to the proc rates being so inconsistent

    2. Our AoE potential is low even when talented into AoE specific talents.

    3. Our general talent choices are all weak and while some provide flavor, others are just flat and do nothing for us.

    I personally have decided with my guild to go Elemental for the time being since it is more consistent and has more AoE potential moving forward and also because I have very little faith in Blizzards ability to fix Enhancement at all. Which is a shame because I honestly like it a lot.

    Tempest:


    I am not a big fan of the Tempest change. I didn't really see a big problem with the original version, it may have been spammy and "too good" of a talent, but it was nice having extra charges and felt powerful. If they wanted to reduce the spammy feeling of SB then they succeeded by removing the old Tempest, but it may open up more problems. Atleast before, when SB proc'd we had 3 SS charges that we could either dump all of them, or some of them if we had to use another ability like refresh imbues, and if SB proc'd then we just get more charges back. Having 3 charges helped us alot with bursting adds too, a target switch with SB up meant we could dump 3 SS's in a row. Now with this new talent, it just gives us more SB %chance but is still relying on RNG where Tempest also depended on RNG but always gave us an extra charge. Sometimes we will get SB procs more often then we can actually use them, so increased procs isn't always useful while extra charges is.

    Its like comparing Elemental's talents for Echo of Elements which gave more LvB charges (old Tempest) vs Elemental Fusion which gave +5% Lava surge proc chance (new Tempest +3% SB chance). Echo of Elements is always more highly valued, gives the gameplay some more flexibility and rotation feels more smooth. More Lava Surge procs are good too, but not always used right away or can be wasted if it procs back to back. Same logic for Tempest giving more charges vs more %chance to proc. It may end up working out fine, and SB procs feel more reliable... I have to test it myself to see how it feels, but I think I would have still preferred the old version.



    Ascendance (and other L100 talents):

    For Ascendance, the changes are a step in the right direction but I think it could use more. I would have preferred to just have set rate of SB procs. Guarantee a SB proc every 4-6 sec or something. So at 0 sec, 6 sec, and 12 sec we would get SB procs and that guarantees atleast 6 SS's (or 8 SS's if every 4 sec) during Ascendance. That ensures we will use SS often but also get SB procs which can make a big difference on the damage that SS will do since it gets buffs like Raging Storms or Wind Strikes. Increasing the duration to 20 sec instead of 15 might be good too.

    I also think it could really benefit from some AOE component. Sure, technically with more SS's you get more CL procs, but that isn't enough. Either have it so SS casts a chain lightning effect or something each time its used, or have our LL transform into a big cleave ability like lava slash/frost slash.... or if crash lightning is used during ascendance it also casts a big frost nova and adds bonus frost damage to our SS/LL while buff is up. Something like that. Would make this CD more versatile and useful for either single target or aoe... just liek Elem has with their Lava Beam.


    Earthen Spike is prob fine for what it is, to give you more on demand burst... like a mini colossus smash. With stuff like Overcharge LB it has potential and I know atleast in PVP it works well, but can be used for niche stuff in PVE that needs qucik target switches. It may need some more damage/buff tweaks. I do think its range should be increased to 20-30yds, to give it some more flexibility and better synergy with LB. I have also suggested that it could be frost themed instead, Glacial Spike or whatever, could do physical+frost damage, and buff frost/nature/physical damage... maybe even add a small snare. Would def give this ability more reason to be used, not just for PVP but PVE, and another way to proc stuff like the legendary ring.

    Boulderfist (the new version) doesn't seem very good. I think I can manage with the basic BF and have enough MS to do whatever I need to. This talent might be intentionally crappy to make us use one of the other two talents since we have all been using Landslide for the most part. I would atleast make it so this talent increases the damage of Rockbiter as well as reduce the recharge time, maybe +20% damage to RB and 15% faster recharge time, something like that.




    Also, no changes to our set bonuses yet. This worries me, as the bonuses don't seem that great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post

    Level 75 is one of the main errors. Change to Tempest is necessary but the current change is wrong and lackluster. I would instead change it so that offhand attacks can proc Stormbringer as well. Overcharge is a bit weak but a good addition as it gives another button to use for those that like that. Empowered Stormlash is utterly useless and boring. I would replace it with something else that feels more rewarding. One talent that I'd love to have would be something that combine flametongue and Frostbrand into one ability that deals frost and fire damage with the cost of Frostbrand which would allow you to use frost damage without taking Hailstorm. It would also be a buff to Hailstorm though that might be overpowered.

    Level 90 should just be our aoe tier. Sundering feels like a pvp talent. Keep it as it is. The problem is the other two. Crashing storm is very boring and should be removed and replaced. Crash lightning and any talent that enhances it should be our cleave that we use when on the move or when we try to burst down a small bunch of mobs. The current version is lackluster and feels like it tries to sit on more than one chair.
    Fury of air should not be a sustained aoe ability. It should be a short duration mass aoe ability that we use when we really want to lay down the hurt with a longer cooldown. Make it do frost, fire and nature damage, call it Fury of the Elements, with it's visuals added with fire and frost.
    That's a good point about the OH attacks. If Tempest atleast let OH abilites like LL proc SB then it would be alot better then simply +3% more chance on MH attacks.

    Combining FT and FB is a cool idea too. I'm pretty sure it used to be a PVP set bonus at one point in the past... could def see it being a PVP talent but even as a PVE talent would be cool. Like "Frostflame Imbues" - Have Flametongue apply Frostbrand effect as well (or FB also applies FT). Could be an alternative to Hailstorm, or an addition to Hailstorm... maybe increase damage of imbues as well. It would really only save you an extra gcd to manage (which some people like), but with more imbue damage could be a viable alternative.


    Our AOE is def lacking, and the talent tier we have doesn't do much for it. I really think we could benefit from a good baseline burst cleave ability... pref frost, like "frost slash". Some synergy with CL would be cool too. It could be either that if CL hits 3+ targets, our next LL transforms to frost slash for high cleave damage.... or "frost slash" could be its own ability that has limitations (like high MS cost or cd) but becomes much easier to use if CL hits 3+ targets. I prefer having an actual cleave ability, but something we would only use in aoe situations to help make our gameplay feel different in aoe situations (instead of just add CL to our single target which is boring). Would give us some burst cleave which we lack as a melee class.


    As for the talents on that tier... they do seem lackluster, but I have no good ideas for it. Crashing storms does kinda limit our mobility by being a ground aoe, but it works for what it is and other classes have ground aoe like that. Fury of Air being timed for burst is an idea people have suggested, it could possibly work but the design of the spell seems to suggest persistent aoe like the breath/wind attacks of frost DK or monks.

    I think both Fury of Air and Sundering could very easily be frost themed, or add frost to their spells.... Fury of Air could be a wintery mix of frost and nature (makes sense with the slow it has), and Sundering could be renamed "Avalanche" and have same knockdown effect but be a mix of physical/frost damage... still works thematically but adds more sources of frost damage.

  9. #49
    Just throwing out some ideas but what if they added talents such as:

    Fire nova: Causes lava lash to strike all targets before you for reduced splash damage.
    Lashing lightning: Causes stormstrike to electricy all targets infront of you, causing damage over time as AoE

    Just thoughts for easier AoE damage.
    Could perhaps also go back to having stormstrike on two charges again.
    I`m hopeful that they will someday put more emphasis on windfury, perhaps even making mastery affect it somehow,
    if you got rid of crash lightning and added something like i mentioned above you could design the shaman as a really fast hitter with a new mastery.
    Perhaps if windsong was made baseline and became an active ability when windfury procced, allowing you to increase your attack speed drastically.
    Could have a mastery akin to an assassination rogue using envenom to ensure high uptime on poison application chance
    but instead of poisons it revolved around maintaining a high attack speed.
    Of course that attack speed could have a secondary effect of interacting with your weapon enchancing spells, could even add a spell
    called say "elemental burst" where if your elemental imbued weapons had "Charged" up by attacking over time you could unleash a hard hitting
    effect either of a frost of fire nature and so on.

  10. #50
    Would it not simply be better to just give permanent Stormbringer while Ascendance is active? Elemental gets to spam Lava Burst, why can't we spam Stormstrikes? Take the RNG out of the talent and let it be a reliable burst cooldown.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gracos View Post
    Would it not simply be better to just give permanent Stormbringer while Ascendance is active? Elemental gets to spam Lava Burst, why can't we spam Stormstrikes? Take the RNG out of the talent and let it be a reliable burst cooldown.
    Because for some reason blizzard refuses to make impactful changes when they are required to make colossal changes.

  12. #52
    We got buffed:
    "
    Shaman
    Purge mana cost reduced by 20%."

    Praise the lord such buff much wow!

  13. #53
    IMO Enhancement needs a complete overhaul to be viable again in a serious raid setting. The big difference to me between how it plays now compared to how it used to play is the importance of Stormstrike.

    There used to be a little interplay with applying the Stormstrike debuff to amp up damage on your primary target while rotating shocks into the rotation. Earth Shock, Flame Shock and Frost Shock are gone now and that flavor of play has been removed too. I've made a list of what I feel would improve the feel of the class while maintaining the feel of "Enhancing" your abilities.

    The talents should further improve your abilities through passives or spell replacing in ways that actively make you change how you play the class.

    I know that Blizzard isn't one to take class design ideas from a forum, but this is what I would like to see happen moving forward into the next tier/expansion.

    Note: These are taking the 7.2.5 ptr changes into account for talent placement


    1. Remove Stormbringer completely

    2. Make Stormstrike cost 45 Maelstrom with no cooldown and apply a debuff that increases the damage of Windfury by 5% for 10 seconds stacking 3 times

    3. Change our Mastery to proc Windfury. Chance to proc 20% base but mastery increases proc rate.

    4. Remove Crash Lightning and make Lava Lash a frontal cone cleave that has no cooldown

    5. Make buffs that proc off of Stormbringer proc from Windfury instead (Windstrikes, Stormbringer 25% bonus damage)

    6. Make Hailstorm baseline

    7. Make Feral Lunge baseline


    For talent changes to fit things like this:

    Tempest: Stormstrike deals 100% more damage but has a 5 second cooldown (reduced by haste)

    Ascendance: Stormstrike cost reduced by 15% while active and you generate 5 maelstrom a second

    Hailstorm Changed to Unleash Elements (Passive): Make your Flametongue, Frostbrand and Rockbiter deal more damage

    Sundering: Knocks enemies into the air in a straight line in front of you for the same damage. 20 second cooldown

    Crashing Storm Changed to Fire Nova: Replaces Lava Lash. Cause your target to explode with fire chaining up to 3 times on nearby enemies. 5 second cooldown (Deals less damage one <3 mobs than Lava Lash)

    Hot Hand: Your next Lava Lash (or Fire Nova) is free and deals 100% more damage

    Overcharge: Stormstrike also increases damage dealt by Lightning Bolt by 500% per stack as well as Windfury damage. Stacks are consumed on use

    Feral Lunge replaced with Passive: Feral Lunge increases your movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds on use

    Lightning Shield: Changed to a 1 minute cooldown that reduces damage taken by 20% and causes Nature Damage when you take damage. Lasts 6 seconds

    Empowered Stormlash changed to Empowered Feral Spirits: Feral Spirits now summon 3 wolves (one of each element with trait)

    Boulderfist Replaces Windsong: 15% Rockbiter duration decrease

    Windsong moved to 100 tier

    The basic playstyle here is that the Mastery directly affects how quickly you can generate resource while also providing a passive damage boost. You'll still have the Stormstrike spam playstyle but changes to Lava Lash becoming a cleave will change how you approach encounters.

    Talent options are adjusted to fill in weakpoints of the spec and also flesh out what are otherwise weak talents making them more competitive, while also making the rotation a little more complex.

    Several talents can be changed to help with different gear options. Where Tempest would favor a Haste/Crit build, Overcharge would work better in a heavy Haste/Mastery build where you generate maelstrom quickly enough to spam Stormstrike and Lightning bolt often. The same applies to Lightning Shield providing a personal defense option, which is an area Enhance suffers greatly.

    Other talents like Empowered Stormlash and Crash Lightning are replaced entirely to change your spells in ways that are useful in different scenarios. Fire Nova being a unique style of AoE, albeit overpowered. A version of it can be reintroduced that makes it deal damage in the same dynamic way without going too far overboard. The same applies to the 3rd wolf. Giving more single target burst damage as a cooldown while also removing the random aspect of the which elemental wolf you summon.

    In the end the playstyle would feel very similar to how it does now but without as much randomness to the throughput numbers while also offering solid AoE/Cleave options and better overall survival if needed.

    Those are my thoughts!

  14. #54
    Some new PTR stuff up.

    Changes include:

    Item - Shaman T20 Enhancement 4P Bonus Each hit of Stormstrike increases the damage of your next Crash Lightning by 15%, stacking up to 10 times.

    Boulderfist: Rockbiter's recharge time is reduced by 15%. and it deals 20% increased damage. Enhancement Shaman - Level 100 Talent.

    Earthen Spike Summons an Earthen Spike under an enemy, dealing [ 1,100% [ 1,375% of AP ] Physical damage and increasing Physical and Nature damage you deal to the target by 30% for 10 sec. Enhancement Shaman - Level 100 Talent. 20 Maelstrom. 10 yd range. Instant. 20 sec cooldown.

    Tempest Your main hand attacks have an additional 5% chance to trigger Stormbringer. Enhancement Shaman - Level 75 Talent.

    As well as upping the damage values of some spells like CL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    And here we go ladies and gentlemen. The FACT PATROLL is here

  15. #55
    Imagine a 4 set bonus with no benefits to single target.
    Blizzard always has this tendancy to buff with percentages where we lack design depth.

    Nobody picks Earth Spike?
    Then let's buff it to +X%, it's exciting now for sure!

  16. #56
    Enhancement got 4 lines of changes while all other classes get tons of good changes. We dont have admin who can ressurect this fail class design.

    Monks got pvp stun buff to 4 sec and they have 3(2) stuns.

    Why did I sub now...this is my last sub until next xpac if something not gonna change to our survival dps and heal. Fuck this there are other games like guild wars that I play where I can compete normal and not being shitty dps with no survival.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithgroth View Post
    Imagine a 4 set bonus with no benefits to single target.
    Blizzard always has this tendancy to buff with percentages where we lack design depth.

    Nobody picks Earth Spike?
    Then let's buff it to +X%, it's exciting now for sure!
    No one really picked Earthen spike because landslide was on the same talent row, it was still relatively close to landslide in terms of damage. Now we might actually use Earthen spike over any of the other talents since they moved Landslide to the T1 row.
    The problem now is that talents like Hothand will unlikely survive a 1on1 battle with landslide, thus rendering the Akainus build useless. The one build i'm comfortable with playing where RNG can't impact me as much as Tempest did.

  18. #58
    Still... Boulderfist looks like a better option, atleast to me. reduced CD AND damage buff? yes please ill take it every day!
    Quote Originally Posted by hydrium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    I play a Monk, so I'm already more mobile than my Demon Hunter.
    You might run a straight line faster than me but you're walking around that mountain, over the bridge at the ravine and down the trail of any hills. I'm going over them.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    No one really picked Earthen spike because landslide was on the same talent row, it was still relatively close to landslide in terms of damage. Now we might actually use Earthen spike over any of the other talents since they moved Landslide to the T1 row.
    The problem now is that talents like Hothand will unlikely survive a 1on1 battle with landslide, thus rendering the Akainus build useless. The one build i'm comfortable with playing where RNG can't impact me as much as Tempest did.
    Earthen Spike is simply bad. I simmed my char with Akainu and different lvl 100 talents and got those results!

    No talent 797k
    Earthen Spike 802k
    Ascendance 827k
    Landslide 851k.

    So why should anyone ever not pick landslide? Especially considering Landslide works at cleave and AOE.

    Of course that build (HS+HH+Akainu) emphasizes a lot on fire and frost damage, which arent affected by ES. But the difference is huge.

    Now someone will have to sim whether those buffs are enough for ES to be preferred.

  20. #60
    This new Earthen Spike might work well with Overcharge. A 30% increase to every second Overcharge does look tempting.

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