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  1. #1

    Anyone else find Illidan neutered?

    I've always loved Illidan, since the Wc3 days. In early beta he was by and far my most played hero (Oh how I miss unstoppable on Dive.)
    It feels like he's just progressively gotten worse, inbetween the nerfs and new hero releases he just feels a little bit shittier with every release, now with the blatant ability creep (A year ago you'd need LiLi for a blind on your team, now you can easily have 5 heroes with 5 blinds.) he's just falling behind royally.

    I don't play HoTS often, I log on for a game every once in a while, but I just can't ever seem to get anything done like I used to with Illidan, damage seems almost non-existent with the amount of CC these days and his low burst, and his survivability is a joke.

    Have they caved, is he now balanced around NEEDING Abathur and Morales to pocket him to actually get some work? I'm speaking from a solo-queue Illidan perspective.

  2. #2
    It's as you said, blind is just too prevelant now, I think there's a total of 7 heroes that can acces it now. Aside from blind, physical armor is also more common than spell armor and even worse the Imposing Presence type effects are around aswell. It's the same reason Samuro runs into so much trouble, just too many heroes that have a counter against him. Ofcourse heroes like BW that make his life hell with Polymorph still exist aswell. That's beside the fact that a hero with silence like Malf or Sylvanas also counter Illidan as hard as they do a, say, a Ragnaros, yet Rag doesn't rely on his AA anywhere as much as Illidan.

  3. #3
    As an Illidan main, it's hardly changed since the last re-work. Blinds are more prevalent, yeah, but the same things that countered him before are what's countering him now - blinds, and hard CC.

    He's been a niche character for quite some time. This isn't anything new, and it's not the end of the world for the character. Do I wish that he'd get some love? Yeah, I think a health buff would help him. Softens the issue of eating damage in CC's, and makes him more durable to play around blind durations.

    I don't think making him more ability-focused would be a good thing, though. Maybe something could be done for Immolation to make it more effective? Or Sweeping Strike's damage in general? The Marked for Death build does a good job of playing around his reliance on AA's for damage output, while retaining his single target focus playstyle, and while I don't think SS -needs- a buff, I think it'd widen his options.

    Ultimately, the biggest thing to remember when solo queueing Illidan is that you are as much a camp clear monster as you are a Hunt-bot. Play lane fights you know you can win, and don't over commit to any laning you can get ganked on. If there's squish destroyers present, wait for an opportunity to Hunt them into kills. Position yourself so that you're not getting blinded as you engage, and if that's not possible, you need to focus on lane presence and camps to compensate.
    Last edited by Sederath; 2017-04-27 at 08:52 PM.

  4. #4
    He is still very powerful in the right hands. Really good sustain and sometimes in pro play you even get to see The Hunt, otherwise it is usually metamorphosis. He is stil difficult to master.

  5. #5
    Epic! RH92's Avatar
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    Current double Warrior meta doesn't fit him. Too much sustain and way too big health pools for him to be really effective.

    I also think Tracer kind of replaced him in some compositions, nowadays Illidan is played when you want to chase them down, but also need a Hero that can siege. In most pro-matches you saw mainly Hunt build paired with Greymane to delete enemies.

    There is not much they can do for him though, buff him and he becomes mandatory. The only thing I think they can buff is his health pool, in 1v1 you are not very likely to kill him anyway and it can help him against blow ups when CCed. Buffing his damage, utility or self-healing is very dangerous area.

    I personally think he is in a good spot now. Yes, he is bad in most situations, but very strong in specific one.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-04-28 at 06:36 AM.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Yeah, Illidan pretty much lost any meaningful position when Tracer was added. His mobility is strong for sticking, but extremely weak for retreating. Now with the latest burst caster to be added, who has completely absurd mobility, there isn't any reason to bring a hero so vulnerable to every form of CC.

    On a slightly related note, I'm not a fan of how ridiculously mobile Genji is for a caster. I want his E to get its 20% range nerf, along with cooldown increase or a mana cost increase to weaken his ability to engage and disengage so easily. It wouldn't weaken him substantially with regards to securing kills, but it would tone down his ability to skirmish.

    Personal opinion here: It feels really weird that Genji is a straight up caster, and there aren't any talents that allow him to use an AA build.
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  7. #7
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Yeah, Illidan pretty much lost any meaningful position when Tracer was added. His mobility is strong for sticking, but extremely weak for retreating. Now with the latest burst caster to be added, who has completely absurd mobility, there isn't any reason to bring a hero so vulnerable to every form of CC.

    On a slightly related note, I'm not a fan of how ridiculously mobile Genji is for a caster. I want his E to get its 20% range nerf, along with cooldown increase or a mana cost increase to weaken his ability to engage and disengage so easily. It wouldn't weaken him substantially with regards to securing kills, but it would tone down his ability to skirmish.

    Personal opinion here: It feels really weird that Genji is a straight up caster, and there aren't any talents that allow him to use an AA build.
    Genji isn't a burst caster. His burst is almost non-existent. He's also one of the worst duelists in the game against anyone he can't kite. Tracer still performs his role better.
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  8. #8
    I don't know, but YOU ARE NOT PREPARED gives chills everytime.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Genji isn't a burst caster. His burst is almost non-existent. He's also one of the worst duelists in the game against anyone he can't kite. Tracer still performs his role better.
    Beat me to it. Genji's burst is terrible. Dragon Blade provides some, but it can be avoided and outside that window he's laughably non-threatening.

    Generally speaking, I'd much rather have an Illidan on my team than a Genji...and I'd be much more scared of one on the opposing side.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Eninya's Avatar
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    Criminally underrated with the same comp style for running Valla or Tracer as a one man army. Most random Illidans are terrible, and he has infinitely more defenses than similar assassins, such as Tracer or Valeera. He just lacks CC, and he's not bursty--just a sustain hero.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eninya View Post
    Criminally underrated with the same comp style for running Valla or Tracer as a one man army. Most random Illidans are terrible, and he has infinitely more defenses than similar assassins, such as Tracer or Valeera. He just lacks CC, and he's not bursty--just a sustain hero.
    I might be biased but I find his survivability worse these days than prior, the loss of first aid and ruining sixth sense has seen him squishier than before.

    The changes I would like for Illibae is: A slight hp increase, making sixth sense a viable option once more, a talent to make dive give unstoppable once more, and that he doesn't stop running when auto attacking.

    Obviously all of this on top of eachother might prove too much, but these are areas where I feel he could certainly be improved, especially the moving auto attack part it sucks chasing someone and getting 1/2 aa's for every dive and sweeping strikes because hand-foot coordination doesn't exist for melee attacks, tracer is all guud though, I mean aiming while running rather than slicing is easier, right?

  12. #12
    Epic! RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy View Post
    ...a talent to make dive give unstoppable once more, and that he doesn't stop running when auto attacking.
    They removed Unstoppable on all Heroes who had it previously, good change as it provides some counter-play. However when playing Illidan I never got knocked mid Dive, the animation just happens too fast. Only time I can see this being a issue when you try to Dive across Malfurion's roots, but this is mostly in hands of Illidan anyway.

    Your second idea is completely ridiculous, I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, but Illidan is not mechanically difficult Hero. He is hard to play because he requires good situational awareness and judgement of your own abilities. All his abilities are either click on or easy to land skill-shots, the only advanced mechanical skill you can do is dodge crap with Metamorphosis. Giving him AAs while moving just makes him braindead easy to play from mechanical standpoint.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-04-28 at 02:59 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    -snip-.
    I'd abuse the living shit out of unstoppable on dive, it was great for as you say, malf roots, Xul's prison, Boss AoE, hell popping Chromie traps, Tyrael charge. Possibilites are endless if played correctly.

    Indeed it would make it terribly simple to play, yet that's what I see he needs to be playable. His mobility used to be fantastic some 14 months ago, these days however with more and more high mobility characters added it really isn't anything spectacular, his damage is lack-luster even with 100 % uptime, factor in that he's everyones favorite CC target, the prelavence of blinds etc and there's fuckall you can accomplish with Illidan that another character wouldn't do better. There used to be a time when if you had an auto attack duel with Illidan you were fucked unless your name was Sonya, he's overshadowed in this regard now and his only purpose is either being hyperboled by a morales and abathur, or maybe finishing the last 10% of heroes.

    I'd also be all for Metamorphosis getting the 50 % cc reduction at level 10 already, that together with a survivability increase might help him in this day and age.

  14. #14
    Epic! RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy View Post
    -snip-
    I don't know man, Illidan is tough Hero to balance. I think he is in good spot regarding his damage and utility. As I said slight health pool increase could do some magic.

    However since you mentioned Sonya and we were also talking about Tracer, I do agree he dies to any harder CC. I definitely think Stuns should be he is counter, but Tracer has baseline Root and DoT removal; and Sonya can pick a Hurricane to deal with roots and slows.

    Tracer is squishy and locking her down means death, but Sonya is tankier with self-healing that 'scales' with number of targets hit while Illidan has same self-sustain no matter what as long as he keeps attacking (Let's ignore Metamorphosis for a moment). On the other hand she doesn't have the mobility Illidan has.

    What I am trying to say, having talent to remove Roots could help him.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-04-28 at 03:59 PM.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Littleraven's Avatar
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    I recently started playing him and my only complaint is he is way too squishy. At the same time though I feel like if he had any more durability he would be almost impossible to stop in a skilled players hands. I have only really played him for about 30 or so matches over the past few days and I already see his strengths and weaknesses. Depending on the build you go for (I usually find success with going all in on sweeping strikes) you can melt the other team in a team fight assuming no one focuses you. Hit 2 heroes with that and you will literally see just about any other hero fall over.

    I never played him before all his various reworks so I don't have a ton of experience with him before then but as long as you don't overextend...in the right hands he is still very deadly. I think the issue with him is that he is so high risk. There doesn't seem to really be a middle ground for him. You are either eating everyone alive or are getting curb stomped. It is also worth mentioned that for as good as he can be it takes more skill to reach that success than it does for other heroes. It's discouraging when you can see other melee do as much or more damage than an Illidan with way less risk.
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  16. #16
    He might be neutered but didn't stop him being played in all three hero league games I played today, 2 times on my team (same guy) and once on enemy team. He is a niche pick which is why it annoys me so much people play nothing but him in hero league. He doesn't work in every comp and can be so easily countered early on in the draft, he is a great hero and I enjoy playing him but he is not a jack of all trades.

  17. #17
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Blind is hardly an issue since you can remove it with Unstoppable from a support. He suffers from tank heavy meta right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    I don't know man, Illidan is tough Hero to balance. I think he is in good spot regarding his damage and utility. As I said slight health pool increase could do some magic.
    Abbathur, Tassadar, Uther, Morales, Zarya, from the top of my head can provide him slight health pool increase in form of shields or damage reduction
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  18. #18
    Epic! RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Abbathur, Tassadar, Uther, Morales, Zarya, from the top of my head can provide him slight health pool increase in form of shields or damage reduction
    How the hell could I miss that??

    I thought it was a common knowledge Illidan is weak without secondary 'support'.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-05-02 at 10:51 AM.

  19. #19
    Illidan is in a weird spot at the moment. In QM I hate playing him due to the general lack of coordination and support, but in Hero League and Team League with the right setup he is sooooooo much fun to play.

  20. #20
    When Heroes first came out Illidan was a beast in them and quite tankier to since he first aid and metamorphosis was a lot better than the hunt. But as the topic states I do find illidan to be "neutered".

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