"Pay to Win"

[Dhrizzle]

That is a very narrow definition of pay to win, but of course, I'm just a kid.

Really? I thought it was pretty simple. You realise that games exist that allow you to pay to get an advantage that non-paying players can't get, right? Most well known is probably the armour-piercing gold ammo from World of Tanks - a player who bought that would literally be paying to win against players who were using less powerful ammo. Mechwarrior Online is borderline p2w with the Hero Mechs that offer unique loadouts, though PGI.

If WoW offered ways to make your character more powerful using real money that couldn't be earned by playing the game normally (i.e. paying to win) then it would be pay-to-win, if not then it isn't.

[Deleted]

If you put pay to WIN in a pve sense then at best you can afford BoEs from the AH and you're still nowhere near capable at performing at a level close to actual raiders.

If you put pay to WIN in a pvp sense then it hits a brick road because you can't get gear via gold.

Exactly what are you winning? In a cynical sense Blizzard has capitalised on the idiots who fall for a P2W mentality whilst not actually providing an edge over regular players.

[Typhoria]

Buying any ingame advantage with real money is pay to win, so yeah, WoW is pay to win ever since they introduced the WoW token. I mean we can now even buy legendary items with real money.

If I spray paint a turd orange, will you buy it because I say it's legendary and is the color of a legendary?

[Deleted]

Cant someone ban you again for stupid posts?
WoW doesnt have a single P2W element.
Pay to win is when game provides gear/damage/buffs with money that are relevant to the active progression of the game.

Amen to that. Make MMOC great again (without Jaylock!)

Infracted

[SoulSoBreezy]

There's nothing you can get from the cash shop/token that you can't get on your own through your own merit or bartering with in game currencies. Except for cosmetics which I wouldn't lump into the "win" category.
That's a pretty easy metric to follow concerning p2w.

[Azzurri]

Cant someone ban you again for stupid posts?

WoW doesnt have a single P2W element.

Pay to win is when game provides gear/damage/buffs with money that are relevant to the active progression of the game.

Rift and earring slots as example.

Buff scrolls in old MMOs back in 2003-2005.

But it 'technically' does allow you to buy power. You can purchase token with cash for gold, and in turn purchase H or M runs for gear. So it's not the most financial savy way to do it, but the tokens do allow you to buy power, just in around about way.

I mean does Power=P2W?

[Rotomon]

If I could buy the best possible gear in the game with real money that would be pay to win. Technically you could buy gold from bliz and pay people to carry you to said gear but it isnt the same as paying money and clicking on an item in a store and getting the best possibly gear available for every slot. Currently there are a few items that you can buy on the ah that could be labeled BIS but no one class can get full bis from the ah.

[Pratt]

Tokens=buying gold with real money. You can buy some very powerful BoEs. It's OK to pay for carries with gold. P2W. It's pretty obvious. They just put in a couple extra steps to "hide" it. The fact that people are in here saying this isn't blatant p2w blows my mind.

[Sungamnori]

Not pay to win at all. If I could buy tier gear/any kind of gear with stats = pay to win.

Not pay-to-win at all? So you can't say... Pay money for a game time token, which you can then auction for gold, and then use that gold to buy a crafted legendary item, a piece of gear with stats?

Granted, I don't think this elevates the game to pay-to-win status, but when arguing this point, be careful of the words you choose.

Personally, I think it would only be pay-to-win if the ONLY way to get the most powerful items was by paying Blizzard for them. You instead have a choice of buying gold or farming it up yourself - either way you end up with the same item.

[Heathy]

most mmos are pay to win mainly because you have to pay at all to win at anything ie a subscription, or the mmo in question most likely offers some paying option that gives you some benefit over ppl who don't pay anything, in essence every game is either p2w or your not playing it.

[Donald Hellscream]

If you can pay your way to a competitive edge, WoW does have some elements that if stretched could be considered pay to win, like buying tokens and selling them for gold which you can use to purchase gear, however I do not consider that pay to win since you cannot buy a full set of BiS gear for gold nor can you buy something that gives you a significant edge in pvp.

Pay to win would be if you could buy something more powerful than anything else in the game on the blizzard store without any way to get it through any other merit than your disposible income, thats my version of pay to win. If anything WoW is pay to skip as you can use real money to skip the gold grinding process you'd otherwise need to complete in order to buy expensive items on the Auction House.

[Meeni]

Spend real money to get gold, spent your newly acquired gold on a guild that carry´s you through anything in the game you are not willing to progress yourself on, get your new gear/titles/achievements. Blizzards ToS are not against this so: indirectly you can play this game in a P2W scenario.

[Lady Dragonheart]

No, WoW is not "Pay to Win" at all.

[Alydael]

What is YOUR definition of "pay to win"?

As it relates to WoW, do you believe the game is now pay to win, or not at all pay to win?

The basic definition of P2W is when you can just buy your way through progression.

I don't see that in WOW at all.

The closest thing WOW has to it is people selling runs. That's not Blizzard though, that is other players.

[Lucetia]

Cant someone ban you again for stupid posts?

WoW doesnt have a single P2W element.

Pay to win is when game provides gear/damage/buffs with money that are relevant to the active progression of the game.

Rift and earring slots as example.

Buff scrolls in old MMOs back in 2003-2005.

Clearly you didn't read the patch notes for the next patch. There is a transmog contest with themes and the helmets in the store are perfect examples of pay to win since they'll surely help you win the contests.

In case anyone can't tell, yes this was totally sarcastic and just poking fun at those who claim stuff in the shop is pay to win.

[potis]

But it 'technically' does allow you to buy power. You can purchase token with cash for gold, and in turn purchase H or M runs for gear. So it's not the most financial savy way to do it, but the tokens do allow you to buy power, just in around about way.

I mean does Power=P2W?

The point is having an advantage over someone else in a competitive environment when its relevant.

Some random scrub that needs to buy Heroic gear is irrelevant to the discussion/comparison.

WoW does not have any P2W element because of that.

Buying BoE gear or crap crafted legendaries because of a token, /care, good luck with the world first race/realm first/guild first or whatever race you are doing in your brain.

Having a buff scroll giving 10% extra max hit points in arena, with 20 charges for 5$ is P2W.

Having Amulet slot locked behind 10$ is P2W.

Having some sort of gearing system with levels, like +15, and selling 100% chance to get a +15 from +14 with 5$ is P2W.

WoW has nothing of that sort implemented.

WoW in its certain system as example could have P2W with:

"Your next 5 item drops have 100% chance to be Titanforged, 50% chance to be double Titanforged and 10% chance to be triple Titanforged" for 10$!

That would be P2W for the WoW system as it currently is.

[Eleccybubb]

Clearly you didn't read the patch notes for the next patch. There is a transmog contest with themes and the helmets in the store are perfect examples of pay to win since they'll surely help you win the contests.

In case anyone can't tell, yes this was totally sarcastic and just poking fun at those who claim stuff in the shop is pay to win.

Nah man. Slutmog is pay to win. Buy a token, Buy slutmog, win transmog contest! /s

[Lime]

WoW expansions are by very definition pay to win. Go find a level 60 and let him play as much as he wants and compare him to any level 110. The 60 will be an insect in all regards. He has to pay in order to stand a chance.

That's if you wish to be very technical, though.

[anveena]

When something that gives you an advantage is only purchasable with money. All I see in wow is paying money to avoid grinding in the game.

[ComputerNerd]

Buying any ingame advantage with real money is pay to win, so yeah, WoW is pay to win ever since they introduced the WoW token. I mean we can now even buy legendary items with real money.

There has always been 3rd party sellers.
Blaming the token is simply petty, as it offers a blizzard supported version of what IS and HAS happened anyway.

Pay to win as a model is where it is simply designed to allow targeted buying of player power.
WoW is not that.

It is a model where arguably money can buy certain advantages, but many games with inter-player trade can also offer that.
So it is rather narrow-minded to single wow out in that respect.
It is player trading that will allow or prevent that.
WoW's one is open enough to allow it.
What sort of system would we have if it were to be prevented.