I've done some Testing on ToS trinkets

[Anbokr]

Wow, that's insane. Welp, there's no way Draught/CoF escape a nerf for us then -- otherwise we truly are going to be just praying for titanforges every week and rolling with our old set up.

Hell, that will probably make 920+ stat sticks waaaaay more valuable (relatively) and that's boring asf.

[Demonpuke]

I am hoping and praying (figuratively) that they nerf draught into the ground. No spec/class should be entirely based off of 1 trinket. I hate having to use it. Its awkward and no fun at all. Aren't video games supposed to be fun?

Besides, who wants to keep using the same old trinkets from the last tier when new shiny ones are coming?

[Roiids]

I am hoping and praying (figuratively) that they nerf draught into the ground. No spec/class should be entirely based off of 1 trinket. I hate having to use it. Its awkward and no fun at all. Aren't video games supposed to be fun?

Besides, who wants to keep using the same old trinkets from the last tier when new shiny ones are coming?

Agreed. However I would rather use a DOS if that means I can still perform well.

However for the record I do think DOS gets a nerf or they change trinkets or whatever to make T19 stuff not relevant. I can't remember the last trinket i used from a previous tier. They just nerfed T19 this last build once already and they will def do so again if ppl still try and use it. They don't make new sets for no reason.

[Archimtiros]

I am hoping and praying (figuratively) that they nerf draught into the ground. No spec/class should be entirely based off of 1 trinket. I hate having to use it. Its awkward and no fun at all. Aren't video games supposed to be fun?

Besides, who wants to keep using the same old trinkets from the last tier when new shiny ones are coming?

Well the spec isn't based entirely off one trinket, but logic aside that's frankly your fault for picking and sticking with Warrior.

There's no way to not make on-use trinkets a huge part of our damage without redesigning the class or how trinkets work; both of which have their own downsides. They could make every trinket simply not scale at all with player buffs (and the idea has been seriously considered), but then the trinkets become simple "bind to every button" lest you delay it for any reason and lose damage - that's just boring.

And just so we're clear; there are plenty of specs which are just as reliant, if not more so, on their own trinkets or legendaries such as the caster Gul'dan trinket, Mage legendaries, etc.

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Agreed. However I would rather use a DOS if that means I can still perform well.

However for the record I do think DOS gets a nerf or they change trinkets or whatever to make T19 stuff not relevant. I can't remember the last trinket i used from a previous tier. They just nerfed T19 this last build once already and they will def do so again if ppl still try and use it. They don't make new sets for no reason.

Typically ilvl inflation does that naturally. This expansion throws a wrench in that, since it's possible (though individually unlikely) for items to warforge up to current/competitive ilvls.

[Qoma]

I also hate DoS and would love to see it nerfed to the ground come ToS, with the same caveat that obviously I want Warriors to be competitive without it. An on-use trinket is one thing when it comes to gameplay; I have no qualms with KJBW. An on-use trinket that takes away control of your character, and locks you out of all abilities and movement for the duration of the on-use, is another thing entirely.

[Archimtiros]

Also just to be clear to all of the people bemoaning DoS - you might want to just reroll right now.

Whether or not we'll actually replace DoS (quickly, at least) is still up in the air, but all of the trinkets from ToS that we would potentially replace it with are just as, if not even more, gimmicky and annoying to use.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Morgaith]

ToS is really looking grim in general for warriors imo.

[Deleted]

DPS trinket just had its damage nerfed by 30% for Arms and Fury Warriors

It's 40 % actually. cinders and specter of betrayal became really bad with that number : around 6-7% for specter in a patchwerk fight.

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ToS might be worse that EN for fury warrior considering current PTR build^^

[Deleted]

ok i see ... i 've different results cos in game damage are < tooltip. i guess it's a bug or something

[Anbokr]

You don't think this will eventually push us towards high ilevel stat sticks archi?

[Archimtiros]

ok i see ... i 've different results cos in game damage are < tooltip. i guess it's a bug or something

• Live tooltips haven't been updated in ages, they're way off.
• Per class damage scaling is reflected on tooltips (and I tested dummy damage to confirm).
• Actual damage has a range, whereas tooltip damage is averaged.

[furiousferret]

Well the spec isn't based entirely off one trinket, but logic aside that's frankly your fault for picking and sticking with Warrior.

There's no way to not make on-use trinkets a huge part of our damage without redesigning the class or how trinkets work; both of which have their own downsides. They could make every trinket simply not scale at all with player buffs (and the idea has been seriously considered), but then the trinkets become simple "bind to every button" lest you delay it for any reason and lose damage - that's just boring.

And just so we're clear; there are plenty of specs which are just as reliant, if not more so, on their own trinkets or legendaries such as the caster Gul'dan trinket, Mage legendaries, etc.

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Typically ilvl inflation does that naturally. This expansion throws a wrench in that, since it's possible (though individually unlikely) for items to warforge up to current/competitive ilvls.

We're not clear, go look at Mythic parses and see that 90+% of Fury run DoS/CoF. I have a Mage, and while Whispers is good, a Chrono Shard (or the new trinket in the new dungeon) 10 ilvls higher parse just as good. That's relevant when M+ expands in 7.2.5

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just really don't want to rely on a combo from the previous tier, especially when I don't have that combo.

[Deleted]

Live tooltips haven't been updated in ages, they're way off.
Per class damage scaling is reflected on tooltips (and I tested dummy damage to confirm).
Actual damage has a range, whereas tooltip damage is averaged.

for me on the ptr : tooltip = 324 348 damage
when i use it on a dummy = 200 k total dmg on average up to 210k

So there's something wrong

[Archimtiros]

We're not clear, go look at Mythic parses and see that 90+% of Fury run DoS/CoF. I have a Mage, and while Whispers is good, a Chrono Shard (or the new trinket in the new dungeon) 10 ilvls higher parse just as good. That's relevant when M+ expands in 7.2.5

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just really don't want to rely on a combo from the previous tier, especially when I don't have that combo.

Sure, there are more competitive pieces, but you missed the point, which was that there are trinkets for some classes which are not direct damage, but overall are worth just as much DPS as our trinkets. However, they get ignored, because you don't see their name in the damage breakdown with a big number next to it.

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for me on the ptr : tooltip = 324 348 damage
when i use it on a dummy = 200 k total dmg on average up to 210k

So there's something wrong

I assume you're looking at Specter of Betrayal, it was nerfed twice for some inexplicable reason. It's tooltip is 30% lower than other classes, and it does ~60% of the tooltips value.

I'm 100% certain this is a bug however; if you look back at the spell data I posted earlier,

Undocumented PTR change relevant to the above discussion:

You'll see that both Dread Reflections and Dread Torrent were nerfed. The issue is that unlike Ceaseless Toxin burst/DoT or Umbral Moonglaives DoT/burst, Dread Reflections and Torrent are the same instance of damage. Dread Reflections is the controller, the mob you summon with the trinket which then casts Dread Torrent - because both of these things were specified, both were nerfed, and the adjustment double dipped.

All other trinkets perform within expected (tooltip) values.