Thread: Is Odyn evil?

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    He helps you after trying to have you killed in a trial. You're a tool to him.

    He would have been just as happy to give the titan artifact to Skovald if he had been victorious.
    You might be right (I'm using "might" as there isn't any indication that he views us as just "tool"), but it doesn't really matter. The game might not portray it properly, but we are supposed to be in one of, if not the gravest situation Azeroth ever faced. We need all the help we can afford now, and Odyn is helping us. What he views us - and very likely he doesn't view us as equal - doesn't matter yet as long as he (1) want to defeat the Legion and (2) want to protect Azeroth. Helya, on the other hand:
    - Tried to rig her own challenge to keep our soul in Helheim. Being clearly hostile to us while showing no intention to reconcile later.
    - Started attacking Broken Isles including our allies' zones (i.e: Highmountain)
    - Stroke a bargain with Gul'dan, who is the representative of the Legion, and stole & kept Illidan's soul which we need in order to prevent Sargeras from taking over his body.

    All of those put her into the enemy category. While Odyn might not be a friend, he is at least an ally. It isn't a hard decision to accept his request to defeat / kill Helya (we'd need to do that to retrieve Illidan's soul anyway - gaining another ally is a bonus). If Odyn turn out to be hostile against us, we'd fight and defeat him just as we did Helya.

    Although, in regards to the challenge, given how Helya acted - Odyn might have been in a similar kind of magical binding that force them to avoid directly interfere with clearing the trial and follow the trial's rule (Helya tried to rig her challenge and clearly didn't want us to be out of Helheim even after we cleared it, yet she couldn't keep us there). If that was the case, it's understandable that he'd give the Aegis to the first who clear the trial - one may argue that his helps towards us during the trial instead of Skovald implied that he at least prefer us over the God-King of the Tideskorn.
    Last edited by Qualia; 2017-05-18 at 10:02 PM.
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  2. #222
    Herald of the Titans Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Yea, they succeeded they stopped the second cataclysm, while Odyn was shrieking in the halls of valor. Also I can't really understand bolded part.
    But there would not have been a second cataclysm if Neltharion didn't become Deathwing. The Aspects were supposed to protect Azeroth against the Old Gods, of which N'Zoth is the sole survivor. Now Deathwing the Aspect of Earth is dead, N'Zoth still lives and the four remaining Aspects have spent all their power.

    so basically Odyn is better as long as other people are there to fix his stupid mistakes? Hes a better choice than the aspects how? Atleast the aspects won't murder you if they think its Valorus.
    He's a better choice than the Aspects because the Aspects are no more Aspects. And one of them wanted to destroy the world, while another wanted, wants and/or will want to scrap the timeline, oh and yet another wanted to kill all magic users and put the leylines in such a stress that it was a threat to the world. So, yeah, I would take my chance with the Valorous One if he can help Azeroth against the Legion.
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  3. #223
    Titan Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    But there would not have been a second cataclysm if Neltharion didn't become Deathwing. The Aspects were supposed to protect Azeroth against the Old Gods, of which N'Zoth is the sole survivor. Now Deathwing the Aspect of Earth is dead, N'Zoth still lives and the four remaining Aspects have spent all their power.
    As opposed to Odyn who was imprisoned regardless of Deathwing's corruption.

    He's a better choice than the Aspects because the Aspects are no more Aspects. And one of them wanted to destroy the world, while another wanted, wants and/or will want to scrap the timeline, oh and yet another wanted to kill all magic users and put the leylines in such a stress that it was a threat to the world. So, yeah, I would take my chance with the Valorous One if he can help Azeroth against the Legion.
    right up until he makes another horrendous mistake.

  4. #224
    Epic! SinR's Avatar
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    is *ANYONE* evil?
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

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  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    is *ANYONE* evil?
    Depends on your definition, i'd say. The Void Lords probably come closest, though we know very little about their motivations, and their morality might be so alien as to make no sense to us whatsoever.

    For that matter, imps apparently think we are the bad guys.

  6. #226
    Nobody questioning Odyn. Odyn is the Chosen.

  7. #227
    Odyn is the only keeper that hasn't given up portion of his power to the dragons. And he goes to ulduar. Something to happen there.
    Sylvanas somewhere searching for valkyrs. Bolvar doing his weird stuff picking up horsemen and.
    There is something interesting happening in northrend anyways and i bet that odyn will have a chat with algalon and he will flip
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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Stroggylos View Post
    Odyn is the only keeper that hasn't given up portion of his power to the dragons.
    The keepers didn't give the aspects part of their power, they received their powers from the titan pantheon, with the keepers acting as conduits.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    right up until he makes another horrendous mistake.
    What mistake? That he disagreed with the rest of the Watchers when they chose the Aspects as the primary defense of Azeroth? Let's see, after some time one went mad and tried to destroy every source of magic on Azeroth, one creates a time-destroying Infinite Dragonflight and is pretty cool about it, and one was, what was it an ultimate world-shattering weapon. Yeah, sure, an army of powerful constructs absolutely loyal to the Titans is a much worse idea.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    What mistake? That he disagreed with the rest of the Watchers when they chose the Aspects as the primary defense of Azeroth? Let's see, after some time one went mad and tried to destroy every source of magic on Azeroth, one creates a time-destroying Infinite Dragonflight and is pretty cool about it, and one was, what was it an ultimate world-shattering weapon. Yeah, sure, an army of powerful constructs absolutely loyal to the Titans is a much worse idea.
    Especially when the moment one broke free from his mental control it imprisoned him in his own asylum. Maybe this time he will try to kill the players and turn them into his new soilders, or he will unleash N'zoth while screeching about how its a new trial of Valor. We bailed out the aspects, and we bailed out Odyn. To say he was a better choice is laughable.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-05-19 at 11:38 PM.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    What mistake? That he disagreed with the rest of the Watchers when they chose the Aspects as the primary defense of Azeroth? Let's see, after some time one went mad and tried to destroy every source of magic on Azeroth, one creates a time-destroying Infinite Dragonflight and is pretty cool about it, and one was, what was it an ultimate world-shattering weapon. Yeah, sure, an army of powerful constructs absolutely loyal to the Titans is a much worse idea.
    *poops out curse of flesh*
    Not so powerful and definately not so loyal now.

    Also, chances are that Odyn himself was main reason why they decided to go with aspects in a first place.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    *poops out curse of flesh*
    Not so powerful and definately not so loyal now.
    Yet he somehow still has an army of Stormforged or whatever, perfectly loyal to him and potentially kicking ass. In the game we never see the npcs doing anything, so I have no idea whether they are good or not.

    How was Odin the main reason? Was the protocol on every Titan meeting "make sure no Odin's plan is, even if that means leaving the defense of the whole planet to 5 dragons"?

  13. #233
    He isn't really evil, he just really really really wants to his job as Prime Designate and defend Azeroth, one could argue that his methods are very extreme but in the end he is a Titan Keeper doing what he was created to do, the way he believes it best.

    If it were a choice between Helya or Odyn you'd be Shortsighted to choose Helya.

  14. #234
    Titan Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Yet he somehow still has an army of Stormforged or whatever, perfectly loyal to him and potentially kicking ass. In the game we never see the npcs doing anything, so I have no idea whether they are good or not.

    How was Odin the main reason? Was the protocol on every Titan meeting "make sure no Odin's plan is, even if that means leaving the defense of the whole planet to 5 dragons"?
    Because his stormforged was locked up with him, the old gods didn't have to worry about influencing them. Odyns plan is just as much for his own ego as it was for Azeroth. Which is why he is a wild card.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Yet he somehow still has an army of Stormforged or whatever, perfectly loyal to him and potentially kicking ass. In the game we never see the npcs doing anything, so I have no idea whether they are good or not.

    How was Odin the main reason? Was the protocol on every Titan meeting "make sure no Odin's plan is, even if that means leaving the defense of the whole planet to 5 dragons"?
    He still has his army not because he is competent but because he is so incompetent. His dumb plans are the reason why he was locked for 10k years unable to do anything. And seeing how he cannot stop spewing bullshit about valor and glory its safe to assume than any titan who saw him just went "nope".

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    *poops out curse of flesh*
    Not so powerful and definately not so loyal now.

    Also, chances are that Odyn himself was main reason why they decided to go with aspects in a first place.
    The Stormforged are created in the Halls of Valor, not in the Forge of Wills of Ulduar, which was the main vector of the Curse of Flesh. We do not know the effects of the Curse on reincarnated spirits, with bodies made in a different way than the titan-forged built in the Forge of Wills. Maybe it was why Yogg-Saron wanted Loken to put Odyn out of the picture in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    He still has his army not because he is competent but because he is so incompetent. His dumb plans are the reason why he was locked for 10k years unable to do anything. And seeing how he cannot stop spewing bullshit about valor and glory its safe to assume than any titan who saw him just went "nope".
    He is so incompetent that, as Prime Designate, he lead the Titans' armies to victory against the Old Gods' Black Empire. His plans were not dumb. They were thwarted by Loken, who was corrupted by Yogg-Saron. If Helya had not been freed by Loken, Odyn and his Valarjar would have been there during the War of the Ancients. The aftermaths of that war could have been much different.
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  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    The Stormforged are created in the Halls of Valor, not in the Forge of Wills of Ulduar, which was the main vector of the Curse of Flesh. We do not know the effects of the Curse on reincarnated spirits, with bodies made in a different way than the titan-forged built in the Forge of Wills. Maybe it was why Yogg-Saron wanted Loken to put Odyn out of the picture in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He is so incompetent that, as Prime Designate, he lead the Titans' armies to victory against the Old Gods' Black Empire. His plans were not dumb. They were thwarted by Loken, who was corrupted by Yogg-Saron. If Helya had not been freed by Loken, Odyn and his Valarjar would have been there during the War of the Ancients. The aftermaths of that war could have been much different.
    I think yogg getting rid of him was more a case of "Im timeless eldritch horror and even i dont want to deal with this guys bullshit".

    And yes, he was a prime designate....and the he lost his job. And what ifs dont really matter, what matter is that he was stuck in his basement jerking to his own valor for last 10k years. Than again, its probably for the best. As for heyla, she is his own product and everything she did is odyns fault. So for every ship sunk and every coastal village burned by kvaldir we have glorious redneck to thank for.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    So for every ship sunk and every coastal village burned by kvaldir we have glorious redneck to thank for.
    How is Mudmug at fault here.
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  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    How is Mudmug at fault here.
    Mudmug in reality is a prototype of odyn. Its just that they set drunken rage for 2000 instead of mere 200 and he got out of control.

  20. #240
    no, but he is a huge dick.

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