Tinkers In Our Future?

[In Ogres We Trust]

Yeah, thats a good idea. While undermine always was a goblin city. Gnomes would be invaders.

Undermine isn't underwater; Kezan is still visible on the Maelstrom map of your world map within the game. Also, the city was under the volcano, so in all likelihood, it was destroyed and/or ruined to a certain degree, i.e. the perfect setup for an enterprising goblin to seize control as a Trade Prince. You're thinking (well, the poster that you quoted) of Zandalar, and even then, since it would make for an excellent expansion site, I doubt that they'll have the area underwater.

[Vynny]

If blizz wanted to, they could have more than just goblin and gnome tinkers. Dwarves on the Alliance side could be tinkers too, since they have all of those siege weapons and such, it wouldn't too much of a leap. Then for the horde, they could either go with blood elves or undead. Blood elves have been really big on those arcane and blood constructs since ToT, and we have the history of the tempest keep. Undead have a bit less of a magitech vibe with their stuff, but all the same could be used for tinker stuff.

The way I see it, each tinker has to have a mechasuit of some sort like mekkatorque in which case goblins could have a suped up shredder based design, dwarves could have one based on there ram aesthetic, blood elves could get one based on either the blood golems or arcane sentinels they have, or undead could get a harvest golem based design. Either way, I think that if blizz is going to make tinker a class then they have to expand it beyond goblins and gnomes because unlike the elves for demon hunter, there are a lot of people who will take a pass on the class specifically because they don't want to be a goblin or gnome.

[Florena]

Mechanical Suit can tank or melee dps... that's two. Ranged DPS would, in addition to dropping cannons and/or the use of guns, drop turrets like Gazlowe in HotS or the midget guy in Overwatch (also including the mortar team from the Alliance). Finally, there's the goblin alchemist from the RTS. He or she would use potions, magic, and technology to heal and/or support their allies.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Alchemist_(Warcraft_III)
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker_(Warcraft_III)

Tank (Mechanical Suit)
Melee DPS (Mechanical Suit)
Ranged DPS (Non-mechanical Suit - http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Torbj%C3%B6rn or http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Gazlowe)
Healer/Support (Non-Mechanical Suit - Goblin Alchemist, etc.)

There is a difference between being able to slap on four ideas for specs in a forum post and blizzard actually making four specs in game. This is also assuming either way that the suit, if they made one, would be given two specs themed around it for tank and dps.

They 'could' have made four monk specs, one themed after each celestial. They did not. THey 'could' have made a third demon hunter spec. They did not. 'Could happen' and 'likely to happen' are not the same thing. Let alone ASSERTING it would have four specs. They may not make thinker at all and if it they do make it it may not be exactly what you envision.

[Rhamses]

From the most recent leak from the next expansion:



If true, it doesn't seem that they're going the mech route, and its a bit disappointing that they're attempting a melee DPS with the class.

Guess we'll find out soon enough if this is true or not.

The original leak said that the Tinker class that Blizzard is developing ARE using mech suits. The leak you're quoting is an update from that same leaker. So if that leak is true, and Blizzard is actually developing the class, then it will be Goblins and Gnomes piloting mechs.

That development would make since given the rise of Gnomes and Goblins piloting mech during the Legion invasion.

[Crimewave]

This game can't realistically support more classes until they hire real class designers and make complete overhaul of most specs.
Blizzard cant figure out what to do with existing ones and you want them to add more, what a pathetic crowd.

[BedlamBros]

Tinkers fit because they're all over the game world. Don't really see how anyone could say that they don't fit. They fill a niche and are pretty unique class-wise.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

"Kanrethad was present, ostensibly as a member of the Alliance, in the battle where Illidan Stormrage was killed during the siege of the Black Temple. Following the battle he shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with the Council."

"After Deathwing was defeated, six of the greatest Warlocks gathered together to teach all Warlocks advanced forms of magic stolen from our defeated foes."

if the time line doesn't add up for the pc learning it why should it matter if it doesn't line up for them forgetting it? there is no basis that they need to explain it being gone as there was no lore basis of them learning it as it learned it after cata yet the ability was in the game in wrath.

The council was reunited in MoP not to show players how to use Kanrethad's demonic form, but to explore new sources of power to add.
The said Metamorphosis was learned thanks to the Illidan defeat, as well they learned more about Affliction during the Northrend campaign and about Destruction during the encounter with Ragnaros in cata.

[In Ogres We Trust]

There is a difference between being able to slap on four ideas for specs in a forum post and blizzard actually making four specs in game. This is also assuming either way that the suit, if they made one, would be given two specs themed around it for tank and dps.

They 'could' have made four monk specs, one themed after each celestial. They did not. THey 'could' have made a third demon hunter spec. They did not. 'Could happen' and 'likely to happen' are not the same thing. Let alone ASSERTING it would have four specs. They may not make thinker at all and if it they do make it it may not be exactly what you envision.

And the lack of a fourth spec. for monks doesn't make sense (they erred on the side of caution), and as for the demon hunter, more than two specs. would never make sense (the demon hunter appears to fit all aspects of the lore). Is it an assumption that the tinker will have four specializations? Sure. Does it fit the lore for them to have four specializations? Yes. I'm going off of the lore, but if you disagree on my assertion then, by all means, do so. In the end, it doesn't matter; we can agree to disagree. Have a nice day!

[Deleted]

I really have never seen a single good argument against Tinkers as a class.

[Rhamses]

I really have never seen a single good argument against Tinkers as a class.

There is no good reason against the concept. Most of the hate here comes from people who simply dislike the class.

[-Joker-]

There is no good reason against the concept. Most of the hate here comes from people who simply dislike the class.

That is a profound and accurate statement. More importantly, it is my opinion that they hate the class simply because of Gnomes and Goblins who would obviously garner the lion's share of the limelight during the expansion.

[Azalar]

That is a profound and accurate statement. More importantly, it is my opinion that they hate the class simply because of Gnomes and Goblins who would obviously garner the lion's share of the limelight during the expansion.

The funny thing is there are also dwarf, draenei, orc, blood elf and undead (?) tinkers.

[Divinexve]

Tinker sounds kinda dumb tbh

[Teriz]

The funny thing is there are also dwarf, draenei, orc, blood elf and undead (?) tinkers.

True, but it stands to reason that if this class is ever implemented, it more than likely is going to be Goblin and Gnome exclusive, and there's quite a few people out there with a pretty irrational hate for those two races.

That said, I think the Gelbin cinematic on Broken Isles really crystalized the concept for a lot of people, including myself. I think its a forgone conclusion that if a Tinker class is implemented, it's going to be mech based. I just wonder how Gnome and Goblin haters would take that, because mech piloting will no doubt be a very popular class concept, and plenty of people would like to utilize it.

[Ielenia]

True, but it stands to reason that if this class is ever implemented, it more than likely is going to be Goblin and Gnome exclusive

Why? The only two cases of a class being exclusive to such a tiny number of races (druid and demon hunter) had a huge array of lore bits showing and explaining why only those two races could have that class (in the case of druids, lore had to be added for gameplay fairness between factions). Tinkers don't have that. Gnomes and Goblins may very well be the two races that deal with technology the most than the rest of the other playable races, but it's not exclusive to them. We have examples of human, dwarven and forsaken engineers, at the very least. So, no, it doesn't "stand to reason" that a technology class would be restricted to only gnomes and goblins.

[Teriz]

Why? The only two cases of a class being exclusive to such a tiny number of races (druid and demon hunter) had a huge array of lore bits showing and explaining why only those two races could have that class (in the case of druids, lore had to be added for gameplay fairness between factions). Tinkers don't have that. Gnomes and Goblins may very well be the two races that deal with technology the most than the rest of the other playable races, but it's not exclusive to them. We have examples of human, dwarven and forsaken engineers, at the very least. So, no, it doesn't "stand to reason" that a technology class would be restricted to only gnomes and goblins.

Because out of all of those groups, the Goblins and Gnomes have exhibited the highest levels of machine-based technology. Kezan Tinkertown, and Gnomeregan look like something from a completely different game. Look at the racial mounts; Dwarves ride rams, Humans ride horses, and Forsaken ride skeletal horses. Meanwhile, Gnomes ride robotic striders and Goblins drive around in cars.

When it comes to mechs, only Goblins and Gnomes have been shown piloting them, with the exception of the Orc piloting the mech in Hellfire Citadel that a Goblin designed.

[Ielenia]

Because out of all of those groups, the Goblins and Gnomes have exhibited the highest levels of machine-based technology. Kezan Tinkertown, and Gnomeregan look like something from a completely different game. Look at the racial mounts; Dwarves ride rams, Humans ride horses, and Forsaken ride skeletal horses. Meanwhile, Gnomes ride robotic striders and Goblins drive around in cars.

When it comes to mechs, only Goblins and Gnomes have been shown piloting them, with the exception of the Orc piloting the mech in Hellfire Citadel that a Goblin designed.

It doesn't really matter if goblins and gnomes are two races that deal the most with technology. To argue for exclusivity, you need to show exclusivity, yet said exclusivity doesn't exist in the game. We have a myriad of examples of other races also being engineers throughout the game.

As for your point about mechs... it becomes a moot point when you realize any race can pilot a mech thanks to mechs like the Sky Golem, the Mechanized Lumber Extractor and the Felsteel Annihilator. And before you say anything along the lines of 'they're just mounts', I'll preempt it by reminding that you opened that door by using mounts as a reason for exclusivity, here:

Look at the racial mounts

[Teriz]

It doesn't really matter if goblins and gnomes are two races that deal the most with technology. To argue for exclusivity, you need to show exclusivity, yet said exclusivity doesn't exist in the game. We have a myriad of examples of other races also being engineers throughout the game.

Yeah, but no other race is as (mechanically) technologically advanced as Goblins and Gnomes. Again, their homelands and racial mounts and racial attributes are evidence of how advanced they are. It's no different than Demon Hunters being exclusive to Elves because Illidan was a Night Elf. Every Tinker representative has been a Goblin or a Gnome, and there's quite a bit of lore to back that up.

As for your point about mechs... it becomes a moot point when you realize any race can pilot a mech thanks to mechs like the Sky Golem, the Mechanized Lumber Extractor and the Felsteel Annihilator. And before you say anything along the lines of 'they're just mounts', I'll preempt it by reminding that you opened that door by using mounts as a reason for exclusivity, here:

Yeah, they're just (profession) mounts. A racial mount is more closely tied to lore than a profession mount. For example, Gelbin is constantly seen riding his Mechanostrider, and according to the game, he invented the Gnome mount. Even in WC3 Thrall was riding a Dire Wolf, hence why Wolves are the Orc racial mount.

Profession mounts on the other hand have very little ties to the lore of the game itself, racial or otherwise, they're simply there to sink time into and to generate money, they're not in place to explain or represent the history of your character or their race. Which is why you can quit professions at any time or avoid picking them up altogether. but if you quit your class, you have to delete your entire character.

However if you doubt this, feel free to find a-non Goblin or Gnome character in lore that built and currently pilots their own mech. Since you believe profession is lore, there should be countless examples of these characters in lore doing what Goblins and Gnomes have been doing.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, but no other race is as (mechanically) technologically advanced as Goblins and Gnomes.

Again: irrelevant. No other race is as arcane-advanced as humans and high/blood Elves, yet we got dwarven mages, orc mages, etc. No other race is as Light-inclined as draenei and humans, yet we got dwarven paladins, gnome priests, forsaken priests, etc. Just because this or that race is more "inclined" or "advanced" in a path does not mean it's a path "exclusive" to them, especially when we have countless other examples of the other races following the same path.

It's no different than Demon Hunters being exclusive to Elves because Illidan was a Night Elf.

Shows how little you know about it. The Demon Hunters aren't exclusively elves "because Illidan is an elf." That's a gross misrepresentation. They're only elves because Illidan only trained night elves. Why? Because Night Elves, in the past, were a culture who had little to no interest in the rest of Azeroth's culture, bordering on xenophobia. Blood elf demon hunters because of the pact Illidan and Kael'thas had, before Kael'Thas showed his duplicity.

Yeah, they're just (profession) mounts. A racial mount is more closely tied to lore than a profession mount.

Yeah! Look at all that goalpost moving! A mount is a mount. Doesn't matter if it's crafted, or bought from an NPC. But if you want to go that route, look at this sweet mechanical mount sold by this Stormwind human.

In short, mounts doesn't mean anything, especially if you're trying to argue for exclusivity.

and according to the game, he invented the Gnome mount. Even in WC3 Thrall was riding a Dire Wolf, hence why Wolves are the Orc racial mount.

Irrelevant.

[Azalar]

I'd rather widen the concept of Tinker, since there are multiple subclasses related to technology, such as Steam Warrior (gnomes), Technomage (humans, blood elves and undead), Alchemist (the class, undead), Bombardier, Mortar team, Artificiers (draenei) and so on.