View Poll Results: Tinkers as the next class?

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  • Yes - If done correctly

    330 35.22%
  • No - Tinkers make no sense

    340 36.29%
  • Maybe - If done correctly

    122 13.02%
  • Other - Stated below

    15 1.60%
  • Don't give a fuck either way

    130 13.87%
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  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagdar View Post
    That's more the way i see our lvl 1 characters. When we create a new char we start in the middle of the map not too far from our class trainer already an adult.

    So my personal idea of it is that while growing up we showed affinity elements surrounding the class we chose. Somewhat like in Harry Potter where kids do random spells without knowing how or what they do.

    Sure we already have a spell at lvl 1 but i think it's more gameplay wise than lore wise. Learning new spells/abilities doesn't happen in 1 second after you give silver to a class trainer, it takes time and dedication. We have to remember we are lvl 1, not lvl 0 in the class we chose to create, so we probably got some form of really basic training somewhere by some dude and that guy sent us where we start the game and told us to go see a real trainer.

    That's my take on it. But it would be funny to ask a Lore dev at some point in an upcoming Q&A.
    Don't think it really matters. Tinker could begin at level one with the ability to deploy a turret or fire a ray gun.

    No one would care as long as the gameplay is fun.

    We're also ignoring the possibility that the Tinker class could start at a level 108 in order to avoid artifacts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    Kezan is literally bordering the maelstrom, and Ratchet is in the center of Kalimdor, You can't get any "center of the map" as it is.
    Rachet is also along a coastline, and Kezan is obviously an island, leaving both open for a Naga invasion.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2017-06-15 at 12:52 AM.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Innatism happens in Warcraft because it's fantasy. We have examples straight from lore of characters magically created or born with knowledge of language, or being able to learn it at an extremely accelerated pace through 'magical' means.
    And those were special circumstances. As far as I know, our characters weren't born under "special circumstances".

    Beyond language, our characters have elements of that tied into their class lore, like Shamans being individuals born with a natural gift to talk to spirits.
    Probably because people with an affinity to a certain something, tend to like this 'certain something', ergo, they tend to pursue that path.

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  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And those were special circumstances. As far as I know, our characters weren't born under "special circumstances".
    As far as we know we have no lore backstory on our characters at all. The best case scenario to be born under special circumstances is being able to accomplish epic feats while having a mysterious background. I mean, would it make sense if we were born under special circumstances if all we amounted to was mediocrity? Not just anyone can rise through the ranks to stand toe to toe with characters like Illidan.

    Probably because people with an affinity to a certain something, tend to like this 'certain something', ergo, they tend to pursue that path.
    Yes, so they were born with that affinity, to talk to spirits. It's natural talent, not exactly something that can be trained from nothing. Ergo, innatism in Warcraft does exist.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-06-15 at 02:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    As far as we know we have no lore backstory on our characters at all.
    It's beyond safe to assume that our character's birth was not under any "special circumstances", because if our characters were actually born under special circumstances, the game would have told us at some point in the game, either on the narration when you start a new character, or in some in-game book, or some NPC would tell you that, etc. Yet that never happens.

    Yes, so they were born with that affinity, to talk to spirits. It's natural talent, not exactly something that can be trained from nothing. Ergo, innatism in Warcraft does exist.
    Not sure if it's "inatism". It is never explicitly said how it works for shamans, but what we learned from BC and WoD and the Draenei, it looks like it's not something innate, but more of a "calling". The spirits (and elements) call upon the shamans.

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  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's beyond safe to assume
    I thought you said you didn't deal in headcanon

    he game would have told us at some point in the game
    Why would it? Our character backstories are intentionally made to be driven by headcanon. Explaining a backstory would defeat the purpose of roleplaying. We might as well be playing named characters at that point, like in the RTS games.

    Not sure if it's "inatism". It is never explicitly said how it works for shamans, but what we learned from BC and WoD and the Draenei, it looks like it's not something innate, but more of a "calling". The spirits (and elements) call upon the shamans.
    It is explained for some individuals who have the innate ability to communicate with spirits. There are novels and manga that deal with this very thing. Being born with the power to talk to spirits is not some hidden requisite for all Shamans, if that is what you are implying.

    Same goes with golden eyes. It's an indicator for those who are born with strong druidic potential. Golden eyes does not automatically mean they become druids or that they can master druidic magic immediately, but that they are born with the potential for it. In this particular case, it can also be bestowed upon by mastering druidism, like Malfurion obtaining his own golden eyes.

    A lot of this seems very intertwined with the magic potential in the world. Night Elves gaining their affinity from the Well of Eternity, which itself is a seeping wound of Azeroth leaking arcane energy into the world. With David Kosak's explanation of Azeroth never waking and its power seeping into individuals of the world, he strongly hints that our characters are ones who have been imbued with that power. In contrast to this explanation though, it's difficult to parse who is and who isn't affected by this, as the lore is very unspecific when it comes to our characters. Just look at how the Order Halls are set up, where everyone who plays a Paladin is the leader of their Order hall in their own story.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-06-15 at 06:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Why would it? Our character backstories are intentionally made to be driven by headcanon. Explaining a backstory would defeat the purpose of roleplaying. We might as well be playing named characters at that point, like in the RTS games.
    As if that has ever stopped either side? There are MMO RPGS games out there that set up your character as some sort of 'savior' or one who was born on "special circumstances". Conversely, that never stopped roleplayers. I mean, our human characters are from Stormwind, from example. But who's to say you can't rp your human as if having come from Stromgarde? Or rp'ing a goblin from a different cartel who decided to leave his original cartel and help the Bilgewater cartel?

    And speaking of backstories and goblins, don't the goblin's introduction put a wrench in your theory? After all, you start out as a very rich citizen of Kezan, owner of some mines, and lose everything after Deathwing destroyed the island. Sounds like a pretty specific background, to me.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2017-06-15 at 05:51 PM.

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  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Innatism happens in Warcraft because it's fantasy. We have examples straight from lore of characters magically created or born with knowledge of language, or being able to learn it at an extremely accelerated pace through 'magical' means.

    Beyond language, our characters have elements of that tied into their class lore, like Shamans being individuals born with a natural gift to talk to spirits.
    Well, thank god someone gets it. Apparently the concept is a difficult one for the thicker individual.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    It is explained for some individuals who have the innate ability to communicate with spirits.
    I always imagined the innatism to be something like The Light. Priests and Paladins who physically embrace and channel the light. While it is possible to learn about the light, just as Blood Elf Paladins did after awhile, to me at least, it feels more like The Light is something you are born with, thus making it easier to control and channel, even from an infantile age. Much like Wizards who can develop their skills before they can even walk or talk. Sadly, not everyone has the ability to open their mind and understand words like "possibility" or "innatism".

    Tinkers are not a far stretch, and there are plenty of cases where infants and toddlers have reassembled machinery they can't even pronounce.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    As if that has ever stopped either side? There are MMO RPGS games out there that set up your character as some sort of 'savior' or one who was born on "special circumstances". Conversely, that never stopped roleplayers. I mean, our human characters are from Stormwind, from example. But who's to say you can't rp your human as if having come from Stromgarde? Or rp'ing a goblin from a different cartel who decided to leave his original cartel and help the Bilgewater cartel?
    You're on a tangent.

    You asked why we haven't been given explanation for having a special background if we were intended to. Now you're saying that having a special background doesn't stop roleplaying, which still doesn't address your original question of why we haven't gotten an explanation. I'm telling you that a lore explanation isn't necessary because it is intentionally left open for the purpose of roleplay, all while we both agree that roleplay isn't stopping us having a lore explanation, since it can be explained any time. You misunderstood the original message by thinking roleplay as a roadblock, when roleplay is actually an open field where there are no defined trails or paths for lore to take. The lore doesn't have to explain why every blade of grass is where it is.

    This harkens back to Dave Kosak's explanation of everyone who picks up a sword or casts spells having a bit of the Titan Azeroth's power within them. It was a very poor explanation (since Orcs came from elsewhere), but it's a hint that our characters have something special behind them. Of course, he intentionally left it vague to not piss off anyone who highly values their character's efforts over some unexplained titan powers coursing through their veins. Lore is a definitive, and the more lore we know about our characters origins the more it may conflict with each player's character customized backgrounds.

    Imagine if lore suddenly explained every character's mother was secretly a dragon and every one of our characters has Dragon blood in them; that would change a LOT of people's perceptions of their own characters. Introducing a gamechanger piece of lore about our origins this late into the game renders a lot of existing roleplay obsolete, that's what I mean.

    And speaking of backstories and goblins, don't the goblin's introduction put a wrench in your theory? After all, you start out as a very rich citizen of Kezan, owner of some mines, and lose everything after Deathwing destroyed the island. Sounds like a pretty specific background, to me.
    How does that relate to a lack of explanation for any Goblin's innate powers? Being rich or poor doesn't exactly explain our birthright. Whatever we 'safely assume' can be considered headcanon or roleplay.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-06-15 at 09:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  9. #1029
    I think Tinkers could make for a compelling baseline for a Class, sure.

    Although personally, I'd kind of like something a little more Titan-themed, wielding more "cosmic" powers of creation and destruction, with more of a Greco-Roman motif. Doing thinks like altering gravity (slowly pulling enemies or players to a targeted location), summoning cosmic storms to assault enemies. Essentially, playing an Ancient Greek God, though balanced more in line with other Classes.

    I'd probably call them "Ancients", and have them as each of the playable races' earliest ancestors, who slipped into some kind of a coma. That'd be my preference, in any case (always loved Ancient Greek and Roman designs; could really lend itself well).

    That said... Yeah, I'd totally be on-board for Tinkers as a class, too. Would be a hard line to walk, though, between Tinker and Engineer, ensuring one doesn't step on the other's foot.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    You're on a tangent.

    You asked why we haven't been given explanation for having a special background if we were intended to. Now you're saying that having a special background doesn't stop roleplaying, which still doesn't address your original question of why we haven't gotten an explanation.
    You said that the reason we don't get an explanation is because we're supposed to leave it to headcanon.

    I'm telling you that a lore explanation isn't necessary because it is intentionally left open for the purpose of roleplay,
    And I've shown that this isn't the case, considering the goblin starter zone. Also, if you're going to insist on "intentionally", as in, stating it as fact, then I will have to ask for your sources for that information.

    How does that relate to a lack of explanation for any Goblin's innate powers? Being rich or poor doesn't exactly explain our birthright. Whatever we 'safely assume' can be considered headcanon or roleplay.
    Not sure if it was intentional or not, but, either way, here goes: the goblin's backstory is there. You have his backstory. If he was, indeed, "born under special circumstances", why wasn't it shown there?

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  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You said that the reason we don't get an explanation is because we're supposed to leave it to headcanon.
    Well if you stop taking every quote out of context, you would realize that I'm still talking about innatism and not about backstory for all general terms like being rich. You didn't show anything that explains whether or not we are born with special powers.

    You want to know why the Goblin starter zone didn't tell you were born with special powers? Because Blizzard intends not to explain it. If you don't like my reasoning for why Blizzard intends not to explain it, that is fine. My opinions aren't something you need to fact check with lore.

    Innatism exists in Warcraft, that is clearly defined in the lore. Blizzard intends it to exist. Whether or not our characters are born with special power is up to us. Blizzard intends to give us freedom to choose, by not giving us direct explanation ALL THE WHILE hinting that we are special. If they didn't want us to choose, they would have given us the lore for everything we needed to know, just like playing a named character in the RTS.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-06-15 at 10:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Well if you stop taking every quote out of context, you would realize that I'm still talking about innatism and not about backstory for all general terms like being rich. You didn't show anything that explains whether or not we are born with special powers.
    I did. I said that, if Blizzard is willing to show this much information about a character's background, why omit something so important as the special circumstances of your character's birth, if there were any? Especially when said detail would shape the character's life forever?

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  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I did. I said that, if Blizzard is willing to show this much information about a character's background, why omit something so important as the special circumstances of your character's birth, if there were any? Especially when said detail would shape the character's life forever?
    Same reason why we didn't know the world was a sleeping Titan until recently. Story, drama, and the whole idea that everything we know slowly unfolds over time into a bigger and bigger epic that we play a vital part of. Why else would Blizzard omit this vital piece of information that tells us what we're really fighting for and why the Legion was always such a constant threat to us?

    You seem to be under the assumption that all gamechangers must be known to us immediately if they are to be a part of our character's story. That kind of defeats the purpose of being a gamechanger. You didn't really explain anything, you're just posing a hypothetical that dodges the entire issue, the idea that if we didn't already know then it must not be important. Do you think knowing the world you live on was a Titan was important enough to know from the very beginning?
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-06-15 at 11:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Same reason why we didn't know the world was a sleeping Titan until recently. Story, drama, and the whole idea that everything we know slowly unfolds over time into a bigger and bigger epic that we play a vital part of. Why else would Blizzard omit this vital piece of information that tells us what we're really fighting for and why the Legion was always such a constant threat to us?

    You seem to be under the assumption that all gamechangers must be known to us immediately if they are to be a part of our character's story. That kind of defeats the purpose of being a gamechanger. You didn't really explain anything, you're just posing a hypothetical that dodges the entire issue, the idea that if we didn't already know then it must not be important. Do you think knowing the world you live on was a Titan was important enough to know from the very beginning?
    Innatism has nothing to do with Tinkers, and all this person manages to do is derail threads.

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I think Tinkers could make for a compelling baseline for a Class, sure.

    Although personally, I'd kind of like something a little more Titan-themed, wielding more "cosmic" powers of creation and destruction, with more of a Greco-Roman motif. Doing thinks like altering gravity (slowly pulling enemies or players to a targeted location), summoning cosmic storms to assault enemies. Essentially, playing an Ancient Greek God, though balanced more in line with other Classes.

    I'd probably call them "Ancients", and have them as each of the playable races' earliest ancestors, who slipped into some kind of a coma. That'd be my preference, in any case (always loved Ancient Greek and Roman designs; could really lend itself well).

    That said... Yeah, I'd totally be on-board for Tinkers as a class, too. Would be a hard line to walk, though, between Tinker and Engineer, ensuring one doesn't step on the other's foot.
    I think they already have. Tinkers actually make more sense than Demon Hunters, even in a demon infested expansion.

  16. #1036
    I'm hedging my bets that Tinkerers is the next playable class.

    Out of all the available, lore friendly classes that doesn't already exist in the game (namely Tinkers, Wardens, Necromancers), Tinkers would bring the most to the table while still being unique enough. I think a Warden is a bit too similar to a Rogue and a Necromancer is essentially just a mix of a Warlock and an Unholy Death Knight.

    Tinkers could easily slot in as tanks and DPS. They could even heal with a little bit of tinkering (heh) of the class (imagine the engineering jumper cables) though I don't quite see it. They could either be fighting in armor suits (think Mekkatorques battle suit, goblin shredders, arcane titans) or they could be a pet class with mechanical pets.

    Most of all, it would give Gnomes and Goblins a chance to really shine. Much like Demon Hunters was limited to Elves the Tinker class is heavily linked to the Gnomes and Goblins and they haven't really been getting their time in the spotlight.

    One of the few reasons I DON'T see it working is that I don't really know in what context they'd be introduced. All of the new classes had a heavy thematic link to the expansion they were introduced in and I don't see Blizzard making a techno inspired expansion so there would have to be a good reason for them to introduce the class, without deviating from the story they've set out on (which is basically working towards Queen Aszhara, N'Zoth and Sargeras at this point).
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  17. #1037
    I'm in the pro-Tinker crowd. I would absolutely love being able to pilot a sick-ass mech suit and dominate my foes. I think the Tinker could work as a Tank, Ranged DPS, and Healer class as well. And since Blizz only allowed Demon Hunters to be Elves, I think Tinker's could be limited to Gnomes and Goblins. I know that alot of people do not like these races, but adding an exclusive class to these races would ramp up the popularity of these races, and would also limit the amount of people playing the new class because there would be those petty people who wouldn't play them simply because of the available races. I think it would be important for only Gnomes and Goblins to be Tinker, because having any other race using a Mecha-Suit would make the suit massive, and seem silly imo.

    My idea for the class is pretty simple, and I would imagine if people did some digging on this site they would probably find similar stuff.

    -All specs would utilize a Mecha-suit (similar to Gelbin's). you could either make the suit the 'weapon slot' for the class, and have them use it all the time, or you could somehow incorporate the suits into rotations.

    -Tank: Uses various wicked attachments in melee range to rip foes apart. (saws, blades, etc.). Maybe throw a flamethrower on one hand.
    -Their way of dealing with heavy damage would be absorbing a certain percentage and then reflecting a certain percentage back to attackers. (I like to call it Reflective Plating).
    -Resource: Overheating - Using abilities causes the bar to fill up, once the bar reaches 80%, cooldowns are slower, once it reaches 100%, all abilites are locked for short duration. (have an ability or talent that can 'vent' overheating) (Yes, I know this is very similar, if not the same, as bounty hunters in SWTOR, but the concept is sweet.)

    -Ranged DPS: Uses grenades, rockets, lazers, heavy guns, etc (all the cool stuff) to obliterate foes from afar. Mastery would be called Explosive Arsenal, which makes it so abilities have a chance to cause an explosion on the target dealing a percentage of the original damage dealt to up to 3 enemies in a short range of the target.
    -Resource would be the same as the tank spec.

    -Heals: This would be similar to the Alchemist in WC3 (A good way to bring this fun class into the game). They would use various healing sprays, healing grenades, and other cool healing gadgets to aid their allies.
    Their mastery would be called Adhesive Concoctions, which would increase the duration of their various HOT spells, as well as increases flat healing amounts by a small percentage.

    I apologize if this is riddled with errors or any other messes, but as I was typing this I was experiencing some seriously nasty lag. Please let me know what you think, just try not to be douchy about it.

    Edit: Healers would also use same resource.
    Last edited by Noish; 2017-07-08 at 03:51 AM.

  18. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noish View Post
    I'm in the pro-Tinker crowd. I would absolutely love being able to pilot a sick-ass mech suit and dominate my foes. I think the Tinker could work as a Tank, Ranged DPS, and Healer class as well. And since Blizz only allowed Demon Hunters to be Elves, I think Tinker's could be limited to Gnomes and Goblins. I know that alot of people do not like these races, but adding an exclusive class to these races would ramp up the popularity of these races, and would also limit the amount of people playing the new class because there would be those petty people who wouldn't play them simply because of the available races. I think it would be important for only Gnomes and Goblins to be Tinker, because having any other race using a Mecha-Suit would make the suit massive, and seem silly imo.

    My idea for the class is pretty simple, and I would imagine if people did some digging on this site they would probably find similar stuff.

    -All specs would utilize a Mecha-suit (similar to Gelbin's). you could either make the suit the 'weapon slot' for the class, and have them use it all the time, or you could somehow incorporate the suits into rotations.

    -Tank: Uses various wicked attachments in melee range to rip foes apart. (saws, blades, etc.). Maybe throw a flamethrower on one hand.
    -Their way of dealing with heavy damage would be absorbing a certain percentage and then reflecting a certain percentage back to attackers. (I like to call it Reflective Plating).
    -Resource: Overheating - Using abilities causes the bar to fill up, once the bar reaches 80%, cooldowns are slower, once it reaches 100%, all abilites are locked for short duration. (have an ability or talent that can 'vent' overheating) (Yes, I know this is very similar, if not the same, as bounty hunters in SWTOR, but the concept is sweet.)

    -Ranged DPS: Uses grenades, rockets, lazers, heavy guns, etc (all the cool stuff) to obliterate foes from afar. Mastery would be called Explosive Arsenal, which makes it so abilities have a chance to cause an explosion on the target dealing a percentage of the original damage dealt to up to 3 enemies in a short range of the target.
    -Resource would be the same as the tank spec.

    -Heals: This would be similar to the Alchemist in WC3 (A good way to bring this fun class into the game). They would use various healing sprays, healing grenades, and other cool healing gadgets to aid their allies.
    Their mastery would be called Adhesive Concoctions, which would increase the duration of their various HOT spells, as well as increases flat healing amounts by a small percentage.

    I apologize if this is riddled with errors or any other messes, but as I was typing this I was experiencing some seriously nasty lag. Please let me know what you think, just try not to be douchy about it.

    Edit: Healers would also use same resource.
    Well put. I think they could absolutely work and that with ANY class, there will be those who love it, those who hate it, and those who just don't care. I know I HATE (with a passion) Pandaren as a race, and monks as a class. MoP, imho never should have happened. But, there are those who seem to enjoy it. Maybe we will luck out and get Tinkers now that DH are finally out of the way.

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