Delaying Titans Thunder for Bestial Wrath buff, and vice versa

[Shadowspown]

How long should I be willing to wait for Titans Thunder (CD 60 secs) to be triggered during a Bestial Wrath buff? Obviously, this is modified by Dire Frenzy/Dire Beast/Call of the Wild Procs, the 4Pc, and Mantle.

Are there any times, and for how long, might I want to hold Bestial Wrath to better combine with Titan's Thunder? (DB/DF on CD obviously, or 1 charge on DB/DF with Mantle) ?

[Tehterokkar]

Always hold it.

BW has 48% innate modifier to dmg(with 4/4 UTB and BF) and 2pc gives another 10%. BW has average CD of around 25s with 4pc(with shoulders and good RNG it can be much lower). There would have to be a delay of 35s between BWs or more for it to be not worth holding it.

Same applies to Crows(unless you can tag it on a target that lives for +5s and dies before it ends)

[Shadowspown]

Thank you for the detailed analysis and explanation.

What about without shoulders? My main is running CotW/Roar/CoF

[Tehterokkar]

Without shoulders CD should still be sub-30s(on average) from what I remember.

[ma73]

what about aspect? do you also delay it for BW?

[Shadowspown]

what about aspect? do you also delay it for BW?

Between CotW (which drops AotW to a 78 second CD) and CoF (procrate of 8.4ppm, 5 second reduction per proc), I'm seeing my AotW come up between every 40-60 seconds.

Before CoF, I did delay. On AOE spams now, with AotW and BW, I've had AotW come up way before BW and situationally used it.