Why do YOU think Healthcare is a Right and not a Privilege?

[Deleted]

But those very rights that you claim cannot be taken away are being taken away by governments.

When did the government grant you free speech?
It never did, i merely promised not to stop you from talking.

[Mistame]

When did the government grant you free speech?
It never did, i merely promised not to stop you from talking.

At this point, it seems beyond some people to understand such a basic concept.

[wheresmywoft]

When did the government grant you free speech?
It never did, i merely promised not to stop you from talking.

I am not claiming that it did? Probably best to not straw-man like this. Won't make for good conversation.

[Mistame]

I am not claiming that it did? Probably best to not straw-man like this. Won't make for good conversation.

The point is, like your life, your rights belong to you. Government cannot take them, only violate them.

[Deleted]

I am not claiming that it did? Probably best to not straw-man like this. Won't make for good conversation.

it wasn't a straw man.

Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech

It does not say 'X have that right' It says it will not violate those rights.

[wheresmywoft]

it wasn't a straw man.

Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech

It does not say 'X have that right' It says it will not violate those rights.

Um you're attacking something that I did not say. That is a straw-man.

I'll even re-post it since you seem to be having trouble.

But those very rights that you claim cannot be taken away are being taken away by governments.

[Deleted]

Um you're attacking something that I did not say. That is a straw-man.
I'll even re-post it since you seem to be having trouble.

But those very rights that you claim cannot be taken away are being taken away by governments.

Could you construct a law that could Prevent people from speaking?
See if you can't, you cant actually take away said right.

[Easo]

And now the discussion is about what is basic rights. Well, lol.
I would say that you, Kail, and others like you are the reason this thread even exists and the USA (and mostly just USA) has this question with the most obvious answer.
Accepting that someone can take your basic rights away is more or less giving this someone a right, if you will, to do that.

[wheresmywoft]

The point is, like your life, your rights belong to you. Government cannot take them, only violate them.

The main thing that I agree with is that Governments recognize rights. What I disagree with is when you state that 'Government cannot take them'. The actual effect in reality is indistinguishable from one and the other.

- - - Updated - - -

Could you construct a law that could Prevent people from speaking?
See if you can't, you cant actually take away said right.

Um, you could always remove peoples ability to speak. It is gruesome, and inhumane, but nowhere in the realm of impossible.

[Deleted]

The reason you aren't ever going to be able to explain to them what the difference between a positive and a negative right is, is because if they accept that there is a difference, they aren't going to be able to say X is a right, therefore your dissent to X, is badthink.

Given they would happily argue that constitutions change and some other right could be abolished, I seriously doubt the holy grail of discussion-ending structures will ever be found.

[Hexian]

I believe it is a grey area.

I think it is a right, but then people scoff at the idea of medical expenses. Do you think all those individuals who worked together to provide your healthcare dont deserve any compensation?

[Pterodactylus]

Um, you could always remove peoples ability to speak. It is gruesome, and inhumane, but nowhere in the realm of impossible.

Weren't you crying about strawmen just a couple of posts ago...?

[wheresmywoft]

Weren't you crying about strawmen just a couple of posts ago...?

He tried to limit the discussion to a law. When my statements were with regard to how a Government could take said things away.

Please identify the straw-men.

[RaoBurning]

I believe it is a grey area.

I think it is a right, but then people scoff at the idea of medical expenses. Do you think all those individuals who worked together to provide your healthcare dont deserve any compensation?

Do you really think anybody is saying medical professionals shouldn't be paid? Because I've followed several hundred pages worth of healthcare threads over the years, and I can't think of a single instance of anybody honestly making that claim.

[kail]

The point is, like your life, your rights belong to you. Government cannot take them, only violate them.

Perhaps based on your definitions, they might as well be the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And now the discussion is about what is basic rights. Well, lol.
I would say that you, Kail, and others like you are the reason this thread even exists and the USA (and mostly just USA) has this question with the most obvious answer.
Accepting that someone can take your basic rights away is more or less giving this someone a right, if you will, to do that.

Well it has happened before.

[DrStiglit]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.

People still become teachers, so I am sure people would still become Doctors..

[Nfinitii]

It is a right, but don't think anyone owes u anything. If u want something u need to go out there and get it. The more the government is involved in ur lives the less freedoms u will have. There r plenty of examples of the government failing, va healthcare, Obamacare. Other countries do have single payer healthcare and its citizens pay insane taxes and die waiting in lines to c a doctor or to get surgery.

Owning a gun is a right, but that doesn't mean u get one for free.

- - - Updated - - -

People still become teachers, so I am sure people would still become Doctors..

Yep, and teachers r underpaid and the American education system is a disaster.

[Deleted]

Given they would happily argue that constitutions change and some other right could be abolished, I seriously doubt the holy grail of discussion-ending structures will ever be found.

Labeling your pet cause as a Right is a time honored tradition of people who wont tolerate dissent.

[haxartus]

It's not about being a right or a privilege.
The whole point is that it's cheaper for everybody if it's universal and government controlled. You are 31st in the world in life expectancy, but you spend 2.5 times more on healthcare than Japan, which is 1st.

[Deleted]

it's a mix of both right and privilige i'd say