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  1. #21
    She is more fun to play now but still weak, better say very situational. I really liked that shadow stalk's invisibility is permanent (until you do an action or take dmg). It matches well with other stealth heroes for ganking like Valeera (haven't tried that yet tbh) but still not desirable. I mean there are so many better choices as a support, why bother with her. I really wish they would change her role as a support to an assassin. It suits her better imo.

  2. #22
    She was my favorite hero before the rework, now she just feels weak all around. I hate that they destroyed owl build, she does so much less healing than before and the trade off wasn't even for more damage, she does less damage. They needed to really just buff her AA damage. I like her as a duelist now but this is hots, that's not what the game is about. It really feels like she has a lot of useless talents now, before she had a lot of versatility (although general owl build was still the best, you had a bunch of different ways to play her). Shadowstalk is definitely fun, but it's honestly completely trash since her auto attack damage is so low. I kind of see what they were going for, but she feels like half a hero now who isn't as fun anymore I wanted her to really just get more damage, but now she has less damage and less healing but some more damage reduction talents for the enemy.

  3. #23
    I am honestly surprised with the replies here.

    Maybe it's a matter of rank/competitive/game knowledge and understanding (I've been Rank 1/Master's consistently since beta) but I'm finding Tyrande extremely strong right now, although I've been playing in QM and not ranked as her yet. I've always mained healers, especially on competitive.

    Her healing seems superfluous to me, her mana reserves almost unending. If anything, I'd increase the mana cost of Q to 35 from 30. Her level 4 talents are exceptionally good. Yes, she's lost the team stealth ultimate, but I always felt that it was an ability that is badly designed: you press one button and simply forget about it. There's nothing else Tyrande herself does about it other than press it, also making things strange by granting stealth to everyone, a mechanic that can cost games by itself in any level of rank. I believe that the developers didn't like the ability simply because of the chaos and confusion it would cause to the enemy team. Yes, putting your whole team in stealth and ambushing the enemy is absolutely fantastic, but we all know it was almost always used for just the healing of the ability, and removing stealth from it would make the ability a reduced fantasy hot ability that would anyway work exactly like it does now for the Tyrande: hit & forget.

    Overall, I think she's so much better designed currently, with the level 7 talents lacking a bit at least on the interesting side. What I only miss is the width increase on Sentinel, but oh well, that's not too bad.

  4. #24
    She's honestly a better hero now than she was before, it's just that she's essentially an assassin with some minor healing. Kind of the same situation as Sonya being an assassin who's unusually durable.

    You cannot run her as a solo support (she isn't a support at all now) but I don't think I mind that.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    I am honestly surprised with the replies here.

    Maybe it's a matter of rank/competitive/game knowledge and understanding (I've been Rank 1/Master's consistently since beta) but I'm finding Tyrande extremely strong right now, although I've been playing in QM and not ranked as her yet. I've always mained healers, especially on competitive.
    In master I haven't seen her perform well in the few games she was picked. I have been playing her a lot in QM and she seems fine there, I win a lot because Tyrande is not classified as a support and now she is a better duelist which is better for QM not HL, I won more with her before her rework in QM though, but again then she was a stronger support while not being classified as one. She has a more interesting kit, talent selection is limited and her damage and healing numbers are lower, she also has less versatility in builds.

    She is not extremely strong in the least, but she has good tools. She probably just needs number tuning and talent fixes that allow her to pick different talents, it feels like they wanted to start her off weak to see where her healing and damage numbers should be. The only time her damage becomes noticeable is when you are getting 200%+ damage on her stun but that is very late game.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    In master I haven't seen her perform well in the few games she was picked. I have been playing her a lot in QM and she seems fine there, I win a lot because Tyrande is not classified as a support and now she is a better duelist which is better for QM not HL, I won more with her before her rework in QM though, but again then she was a stronger support while not being classified as one. She has a more interesting kit, talent selection is limited and her damage and healing numbers are lower, she also has less versatility in builds.

    She is not extremely strong in the least, but she has good tools. She probably just needs number tuning and talent fixes that allow her to pick different talents, it feels like they wanted to start her off weak to see where her healing and damage numbers should be. The only time her damage becomes noticeable is when you are getting 200%+ damage on her stun but that is very late game.
    Honestly, I would say that she can do everything now without talents. The talents just add up to what you want to do, I feel, and that's very refreshing.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    Honestly, I would say that she can do everything now without talents. The talents just add up to what you want to do, I feel, and that's very refreshing.
    Aside from quest talents her talents do seem less impactful outside of the mini shrink ray on owl at 13. Her ults are pretty weak as well with the exception of the upgrade to starfall at 20. I don't necessary think that's a good thing to have less impactful talents though, but there shouldn't be tiers like 7, 10 and 13 where the talent selection is pretty much made for you. I would say the obvious level 1 choice as well is the stun since owl build is only there for fun across the map kills as it no longer contributes to the CD reduction on the rest of your abilities, as the hunter's mark quest getting an extra second or two on your mark isn't that big of a deal since the marked target should be dead within the 4 seconds you use mark anyway.

    I do really like the baseline owl quest for pierce and mana reduction, that feels nice. And in a 1v1 being able to heal herself for the full amount is nice, it also lets her take merc camps on her own.
    Last edited by Every Pwny; 2017-05-18 at 08:13 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    Aside from quest talents her talents do seem less impactful outside of the mini shrink ray on owl at 13. Her ults are pretty weak as well with the exception of the upgrade to starfall at 20. I don't necessary think that's a good thing to have less impactful talents though, but there shouldn't be tiers like 7, 10 and 13 where the talent selection is pretty much made for you. I would say the obvious level 1 choice as well is the stun since owl build is only there for fun across the map kills as it no longer contributes to the CD reduction on the rest of your abilities, as the hunter's mark quest getting an extra second or two on your mark isn't that big of a deal since the marked target should be dead within the 4 seconds you use mark anyway.

    I do really like the baseline owl quest for pierce and mana reduction, that feels nice. And in a 1v1 being able to heal herself for the full amount is nice, it also lets her take merc camps on her own.
    Fully agree on all points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only thing I would add is that if they increase the damage on the Ranger quest for the owl from 3 to say 8% or something, it could actually be viable for pressuring across the map.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    Fully agree on all points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only thing I would add is that if they increase the damage on the Ranger quest for the owl from 3 to say 8% or something, it could actually be viable for pressuring across the map.
    What they do need for owl build is give it the double width back, as it is to get max damage you are already waiting for 5 seconds or so before it hits the target and that is a long time for them to move for you to get value out of going owl build. The more damage would be nice per hit though or even just start it at 100% instead of 75%, I'm not sure though what it would take to make owl build really effective because that would require Tyrande to be away from the team fight to do good owl damage, while the stun you are always getting value when you hit it. It feels great when you kill someone across the map but a lot of the damage is usually before a team fight.

    But regardless I want to see them give owl build some love, losing the CDR for all abilities on owl was a huge blow since that alone let you get value away from a team fight and in one, they shouldn't take the width away as well.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    What they do need for owl build is give it the double width back, as it is to get max damage you are already waiting for 5 seconds or so before it hits the target and that is a long time for them to move for you to get value out of going owl build. The more damage would be nice per hit though or even just start it at 100% instead of 75%, I'm not sure though what it would take to make owl build really effective because that would require Tyrande to be away from the team fight to do good owl damage, while the stun you are always getting value when you hit it. It feels great when you kill someone across the map but a lot of the damage is usually before a team fight.

    But regardless I want to see them give owl build some love, losing the CDR for all abilities on owl was a huge blow since that alone let you get value away from a team fight and in one, they shouldn't take the width away as well.
    Agree, they should have either made increased width baseline or if they wanted it to be "exclusive" make it part of lvl 1 talent, since now it is really "meh" compared to stun talent.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Storm, Earth, and Fire has had its powers magnified, and can now be used on a total of 5 targets. Because of this change, it's been renamed to "Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart."

  11. #31
    On theory she seems to be a very strong support. Things like trueshot (20% extra dmg upon activation)+ lvl 20 starfall (vulnerable in area) + lvl 13 harsh moonlight that reduces the enemy dmg dealt (if sentinel pierces many targets for example) gives huge amount of extra dmg for your team and reduces the dmg of the opposite team and it provides a great boost overall. But executing all of this is pretty hard or better say challenging. You are always the enemies first priority to dealt with and that makes executing your abilities difficult or you learn shadow stalk instead of starfall and wait for a good situation to show yourself.

    But still I think she was better before the rework:

    1.You had lvl 4 talent that sentinel could pierce as many heroes as possible. Now every 8 heroes hit gives an extra pierce and reduces mana cost which the mana wasn't an issue before. Ofc this is no longer a talent and that is a score.

    2.You had lvl 7 lunar flare talent that increased the range of the spell. Now you have to hit 20 heroes with lunar flare to get it. Ofc with the new rework you have to stay close to the fights and AA but having the increased ranged at lvl 7 was a huge benefit imo. Also the new lvl 1 lunar flare talent removes the mana cost at 10 stack but I still don't think mana is really an issue at the end of the match.

    3.lvl 1 ranger's mark talent used to reduce the CD of hunter's mark by 6 seconds. Now every AA reduce the cd by 1 second which means if you must land at least 6 AA to reach old talent's effect.

    Before the rework, Tyrande could stay behind and support the team. Now she needs to come close to the fights and AA or else she can't be much helpful. Lunar flare and sentinel definitely got nerfed. light of Elune and hunter's marks is strong only if you can AA. Starfall with lvl 20 talent is very strong even though they reduce its AoE and the global cast talent. The new Shadow stalk is very helpful for your rotation, and for so many other things too like escaping or scouting and its lvl 20 talent that reveals enemies is a great tool for your team.

    Ofc these were all my opinion .

  12. #32
    I really enjoy the rework, but I hate the idea of never ending quests. Even quests like Seasoned Marksman has a reward at a certain level. It gives me a side goal in the game. Quests that just give minor buffs with no end or definite power up point are going to drive me insane. I like getting rewards at a nice cut number.

  13. #33

  14. #34
    I have mixed feelings with Tyrande. This is coming from a player who has not really played Tyrande before the rework.

    It is true what people say she needs to AA to be feel useful. The times I have felt her to be the most useful was when using her killing some boss or pushing a base with little resistance from enemy heroes. Basically if she can AA she is really useful but when not AA she is very much diminished.

    The comps I had the most success with her is when there was another healer and I was helping out supplementing other healing.

    Some of her abilities can start to do a good deal of damage (depending on talents of course) after they've had time to amp up but that takes time and skill. Her shadow stalk ability isn't bad but if you have allusion of replacing a Nova or Valeera you'd be dead wrong. She lacks the burst punch and escape tools to handle such a task. Shadowstalk IMO is best used for scouting and movement. Don't get me wrong she could surprise kill someone low and dumb enough to be moving around that low without support but taking someone out 100-0 even for squishies is not a realistic scenario. More often than not I found starfall to be a much better ultimate in most situations.

    There were a few occasions where I felt useful as a supplement healer to Lt. Morales who cannot heal herself. Another occasion was neutralizing Valeera which did feel particularly satisfying because you can stun her, heal the person she opened up on (if it wasn't myself), hit her with an owl so she couldn't stealth right away unless using smoke bomb, also you can mark her to keep her from stealthing. That's a long time for a Valeera to not be able to stealth.

    Overall, after having played many games with her I am still not sure about her. She has a little bit of everything, a stun, heal, stealth or AOE (if spec'ed), etc but none of them really very good. If anything she fits in the classic archetype of a Bard class. Which would means shes a good 5th character if all other bases are covered.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Killmaim Deathbringer View Post
    tyrande is not in the meta. who tf plays her? xDDDDD
    Anyone who knows she is actually op af. Not only does she have as much sustain as a lot of assassins, but she can also heal, stun, scout the map, zone out with her dmg ult.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Anyone who knows she is actually op af. Not only does she have as much sustain as a lot of assassins, but she can also heal, stun, scout the map, zone out with her dmg ult.
    On the other hand, she's paper thin and has 0 mobility so I wouldn't call her "op af" in any sense. One can make argument she's "strong" in certain cases but nowhere near "op af".
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Storm, Earth, and Fire has had its powers magnified, and can now be used on a total of 5 targets. Because of this change, it's been renamed to "Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart."

  17. #37
    High Overlord Eninya's Avatar
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    Her rework has resulted in a huge buff for her, particularly as a support and potential nuker. She can heal significantly more effectively now, as well as has new multi-hero debuff options (in lieu of losing Shrink Ray), and some new ramping mechanics that are very rewarding.

    My trio support main was a bit apprehensive of her, but he's since fallen in love with the new Hunter's Mark build options, though I prefer playing a Lunar Blaze/healing build.

    So far, the Sentinel build is the only one that feels a bit on the weak side, because the damage distance ramp-up is a bit far.
    "We're not really carrying you when the other hunters are climbing up your back like Shadow of the Colossus just to glimpse your damage meter."

  18. #38
    I really like the rework. Kinda wish some buffs, but having fun with her.

  19. #39
    Titan Snowraven's Avatar
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    As a main Tyrande player, I find the changes awful for the most part.

    So, before there was a build there was a build that made her ok as a healer. She could not break Morales' healing or something, but was a medium healer while also bringing some dps.

    Now, let's see:
    - her Shadowstalk ability, to me, seems useless in a team game. Sure, you can use it to run out of confrontations... so it's on par with Tassadar's E ability? Oh no, it also gives some attack speed for 5 FULL SECONDS... Overall, for a heroic, it's extremely underwhelming.
    But wait! Some people say that you can use the ability to ambush other heroes, like, activate it, go in the back and kill a squishy. Sounds good, right? Except...
    - you are a squishy. So, going in the back or you separating from the team means YOU DIE. You have no escape abilities. You can't teleport, you can't blink or something. Shadowstalk it's your only possible escape, and it's a heroic ability that others get as a talent or as a regular ability. So you can't use it to ambush someone, because then you'd die.
    - her healing dropped drastically. She lost the shield and healing rod at level 4, the shield at level 20, the only true healing talents are now at level 16. Furthermore, you now need to spend more time attacking to be able to even heal at a low level. In an ok-ish setting you'll see healing numbers close to Zarya with her shields, Tassadar with his shields, Abathur with his shield healing thing. So, mostly a bad level for a support.
    - her damage increased somewhat however... owl build is dead. With the removal of owl size increase and having to hit heroes 20 times to even hit 3 heroes, it's mostly a dead build.
    - there is a new build with Lunar Flare and one strenghtening her D. That's about it... all other builds are shit. Before this there were like 4 builds that were good or good-ish at least (owl, lunar flare, healing and one focused on her Hunter Mark). Now it's Lunar / Hunter's Mark or you suck.
    - The Starfall is now OP. With the talent at level 20 that also applies Hunter's Mark to anyone caught in it, I see no reason at all to pick Shadowstalk.
    - Her heal no longer even heals herself... considering you now have to always auto-attack as its cooldown was increased, it means you'll get hit more and have to use it on yourself more. If you don't, you die. But if you do, someone else dies. It's a lose-lose situation either way. You can't save them anymore in any way shape or form. Unlike before, or unlike other supports, who can.

    Not all changes are bad. I like the new Trueshot Aura and how it works. I like the Quest for Lunar Flare from the level 1 talent. And unfortunately, that's about it.

    Tyrande should no longer be classified as a support. She's an assassin. She's like a Valla with Raynor's heal, only she can use it on others too.

    Also, I don't like the changes. As I said, now you're forced into 2 builds, and have even less choice than before. You need to work more to be a good assassin and you can't be a good healer, like, at all.
    Last edited by Snowraven; 2017-05-24 at 03:42 PM.

  20. #40
    After having played her some more I am firmly in belief that she fits the Bard archetype. She's a great 4 or 5th toon on a team.

    Original assessment is still the same. For her to feel useful and most impactful she needs to be doing her AA. I have re-evaluated ShadowStalk and while I don't feel it is as impactful as an ultimate should be it is the only ultimate which allows her to be doing what she needs to be doing which is AA. One thing I realized with ShadowStalk is that you cannot use this ability like a regular stealthy. Firstly it does not give you 1 sec unrevealable so you will not just be able to disappear in the heat of battle like other steathlies can. What it is useful for is scouting and positioning for an initial teamfight. It can also serve as a DPS boost on a marked foe foregoing the stealth part of the ability.

    As the poster mentioned above if you are utilizing ShadowStalk offensively going to be the back rank for ganking is a perilous endeavor but nonetheless possible.

    I believe Owl damage could be upped a little. One possible way of doing this without adding damage is require the Owl to have to travel less time to gain full damage bonus. Then up her attack speed normally which I think will compensate a little of her needing to AA so much. This means that she and AA in smaller windows of time while gaining more cooldown reduction.

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