Artifact Knowledge is a big problem

[Daffan]

That's how mmos work.
Why did people waste weeks to kill heroic lich king when now I can simply moonfire him?
Why did people run mythic dungeons that awarded just 85x gear when they could have waited 4 months and they get better gear by cracking nuts?

You just need a carrot that is motivating you enough to currently have character progression. People that are joining our raid group for ToS now get equipped in two or three raids what took me months to get. The whole progression is moot in a few weeks or months, that's just how mmos keep you going.

It never used to be like that.

New expansions resetting the old is perfectly acceptable, and standard.

patch resets is what made most people apathetic and see the futility of the game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It never used to be like that.

New expansions resetting the old is perfectly acceptable, and standard.

patch resets is what made most people apathetic and see the futility of the game.

Raid tiers generally meant there was better gear to find then whatever near top gear you previously had. That's a given.

[shadowmatrix]

It never used to be like that.

New expansions resetting the old is perfectly acceptable, and standard.

patch resets is what made most people apathetic and see the futility of the game.

Really, what game where you playing back then? The treadmill has always been there right out in the open. How many Molten core raiders did it in level 1 gear? None because that level 1 gear was weak with low stats aka irrelevant. You know what happened later on, Naxxramas made the molten Core gear irrelevant.

Nothing has changed about the gear treadmill.

[Magicpot]

Raid tiers generally meant there was better gear to find then whatever near top gear you previously had. That's a given.

Right, but these days, not just your gear is reset. The main reward factor of the game right now, AP, was entirely reset, to the point where someone with the catchup could complete an entire month of grinding in a single world quest.

[Deleted]

Raid tiers generally meant there was better gear to find then whatever near top gear you previously had. That's a given.

Except that there was a time when you still needed to do the previous tier in order to access the new one. Then they introduced a way to get good gear that was literally lying around like on Timeless Isle, Tanaan Jungle or now on the Broken Shore.

[Vaerys]

Except that there was a time when you still needed to do the previous tier in order to access the new one. Then they introduced a way to get good gear that was literally lying around like on Timeless Isle, Tanaan Jungle or now on the Broken Shore.

So tell us, perpetually dissatisfied Anduin Menethil, what does your ideal incarnation of WoW look like?

[Dixperiken]

I didn't. But other people did.

Then let the people that enjoy the grind do it and don't let it bother you. If WoW isn't fun for you in some key way and simply stresses you out then I suggest you just stop playing and find something else you do enjoy. The sooner you do so the sooner you'll be happier in life!

[Daffan]

Raid tiers generally meant there was better gear to find then whatever near top gear you previously had. That's a given.

Of course, but they never gave you gear for free to start the new tier instantly.

Really, what game where you playing back then? The treadmill has always been there right out in the open. How many Molten core raiders did it in level 1 gear? None because that level 1 gear was weak with low stats aka irrelevant. You know what happened later on, Naxxramas made the molten Core gear irrelevant.

Nothing has changed about the gear treadmill.

Cool, I guess back then I forgot Blizz gave everyone tier 2.5 for free so they could start Naxx ASAP when it came out. Thanks for reminding everyone.

[Nize]

Honestly, I never really focused on AP this go-around.

AP was something I received while farming for legendaries (which BY FAR has bigger problems).

AP was just there, so AK really didn't matter much either.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Of course, but they never gave you gear for free to start the new tier instantly.

You still have to farm nethershards for stuff so it isn't *for free*.

[Reckoniize]

Why did you think your wall of absolute garbage warranted its own thread instead of just piling it on top of the rest of the shitposts in the main thread?

This. My thoughts exactly.

[Deleted]

Then let the people that enjoy the grind do it

You lost me there already. No one ever enjoys any grind. That's antithetical to the meaning of grind.

- - - Updated - - -

You still have to farm nethershards for stuff so it isn't *for free*.

It is when it's contained in a wyrmtongue chest. They literally are lying on the ground everywhere.

[Reckoniize]

You lost me there already. No one ever enjoys any grind. That's antithetical to the meaning of grind.

People play Diablo religiously and all that game is, is a grindfest. You could argue Destiny and Borderlands are too, but those are at least more story driven than Diablo's playstyle.

[Deleted]

People play Diablo religiously and all that game is, is a grindfest. You could argue Destiny and Borderlands are too, but those are at least more story driven than Diablo's playstyle.

People don't enjoy the grind, they enjoy getting the rewards.

[zoned]

Just like how those who understood math didn't kill themselves with dailies in 5.0. Blizzard relying on people to be a little bit intelligent and not knock themselves out pointlessly has never really worked out Midcore tryhards at 3/10 M NEED Blizzard to hold their hands and keep them from hurting themselves.

Regardless if you are casual or hardcore, the playtime required to maintain in Legion has dramatically increased compared to previous expansions. There is only one way of intelligently approaching Legion and that is not to play Legion.

[Flurryfang]

First of all I wanna say that I'm personally glad they lowered the cap from 50 to 40. Honestly. Because I personally was mostly annoyed by the fact that I had to check the AK work order on all of my 12 characters all the time. Now, I'm 37, which means 3 more AK pickups, so I'm almost done with that shit. Thank god.

Now there's a big problem here I feel though. Mainly that the raid isn't even out yet. Think about this. You'll hit AK level 40 probably before the raid comes out. You should reach AK 40 in about 15 days I would say. The raid will be out mid-June or at the end of June.

So why exactly did people waste time getting AP in the last weeks? Sure maybe that helped some people with Nighthold raiding, but it sure as hell seems like a waste of time now. Now that with AK 40 in 2 weeks the AP gain will be the highest and probably require minimal effort to get your weapon maxed out. So everybody who didn't wait until AK 40 has wasted a lot of time grinding the same shit over and over, when they could've just waited. It's not like waiting would've penalized them, cause Tomb of Sargeras isn't even out yet. And then, what's there to do once Tomb of Sargeras is out and everybody has their weapons maxed out? They wanted AP to be a reward that people will always want. But it becomes obsolete before the raid is even out. Did Blizzard think this through?

So why did they get AP? Maybe because they like playing the game?????? :O Since 7.2s launch, we have had new mounts to farm, new reputation to get, a new questline (though a bit poor) to complete and in general alot of stuff to catch up on. AP is not the only thing to hunt in the game.

Sure, there is an underlying problem with AK, since it scales like this, but it is only a problem if there is nothing else to do, and i would argue that there is quite a few things to do for the average player. Sure, if you are a completionist and totally hardcore with your time, you are proberly out of stuff to do, but even without AP and AK, that would be the situation aswell.

[Denarius]

People don't enjoy the grind, they enjoy getting the rewards.

I enjoy that grind. Recently I've been "grinding" solo grifts for progression, even though my gear is pretty much maxed out. Obviously i'm not in full primal ancients, but those are hardly worth grinding with the expectation that it'll come. since i haven't even seen my first. My wife has had her wow account for about 7 months, and she's sitting at 71 right now because she ENJOYS grinding on mobs in Howling Fjord to skin.

It just really bugs me when people say things and think they're speaking for everyone.

OT: I don't think doing AK research is something that can really be complained about. Especially since i never even log my toons to do the research. The legion app has apparently saved me a lot of time looting a box and clicking 3 times every 3-5 days.

[Puri]

It never used to be like that.

New expansions resetting the old is perfectly acceptable, and standard.

patch resets is what made most people apathetic and see the futility of the game.

No idea what game you play, but in wow since at least since wotlk new raid tier made old raid tier obsolete.

[Daffan]

No idea what game you play, but in wow since at least since wotlk new raid tier made old raid tier obsolete.

Not really, only realistically when they introduced ICC 5 mans did new patches completely wipe out old patches in terms of relevancy. This was reversed in Cata until Dragon Soul and 378s

[Puri]

Not really, only realistically when they introduced ICC 5 mans did new patches completely wipe out old patches in terms of relevancy. This was reversed in Cata until Dragon Soul and 378s

No, realistically every patch since wotlk had at least one way to easily catch up gear from the previous tier. Be it a daily hub, honor farming, badge farming, timewalking or added dungeons.
But this is also highly irrelevant to my point, replace one raid tier with two and you get the same result. Heck even currently we are still in the same first tier as emerald nightmare, and it is already made completely obsolete by dungeons and cracking nuts.
The point is just everything we do is futile in a mmo. You can always come back later and wonder why people spent so much time doing the same stuff when it was current while later it is just blindly running through.
So are people dumb for farming current content when they could vastly more efficiently farm previous content?