You don't get it blizzard do you?

[Alydael]

The resources is definitely a problem since you get way more than you ever need by turnins and world quests. The AP issue is a double-edged sword for sure. IMO they should have made the base proc of Concordance be like 3-4k or so and have each trait only add 50-100 to the proc. If people are going to complain it's "too hard to farm" then let them because it's MINISCULE upgrades (we're talking like 0.01% upgrades here compared to the 1% upgrades of the old paragon trait). The old trait was way too powerful and people had a right to complain. Way less are complaining about this much weaker one, though tbh AP doesn't feel as important so... yeah.

Something needs to be done with AP because we're two major patches in and they've proven that AP doesn't ever feel rewarding unless you get large heaps of it, and even then, if it's just for concordance upgrades, it doesn't feel great.

Yeah and those concordance upgrades have basically a minimal effect. There really isn't much reason to farm it after concordance.

You really don't even have to farm AP. I got to concordance just by doing raids and the daily emissary.

[ComputerNerd]

It's not "No matter the approach". It's just that the past few ways they've approached the issue have been wrong. As I said before, in WoD there was too little. They've swung the pendulum too far and overcompensated in Legion with AP/AK and made it too much.

So it's not that 'no matter what they do they'll be wrong', it's just that they need to stop working with extremes.

What amount will be "right" though.
"too much" and "too little" arguments are entirely subjective, simply an arbitrary opinion pulled out of nowhere.
Nobody can say WHY - only that it isn't right, when they aren't defining what is right and why.

[SirCowdog]

What amount will be "right" though.
"too much" and "too little" arguments are entirely subjective, simply an arbitrary opinion pulled out of nowhere.
Nobody can say WHY - only that it isn't right, when they aren't defining what is right and why.

It's not an arbitrary opinion. LOL! It's literally drawn from actual reactions to Blizzard's poor decisions. RNG upon RNG upon RNG with massive, open-ended grind never before seen in WoW. The reasons why it's too much or too little have been gone over hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

[ComputerNerd]

It's not an arbitrary opinion. LOL! It's literally drawn from actual reactions to Blizzard's poor decisions. RNG upon RNG upon RNG with massive, open-ended grind never before seen in WoW. The reasons why it's too much or too little have been gone over hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

No, people simply say it is.
Nobody has given a single reason why a certain number is wrong.
If those have been stated specifically, show me that.

No, because each player has their own idea on that.
There is no "too much" or "too little" argument that has ever been more than arbitrary, subjective and personal.
Because anything based on a percentage, a chance, or expected to take a certain amount of time is going to be just that even from the design view.

Taking the progression to Concordance 1 in terms of any specific numerical measurement of repetition at maxed AK, say for example heroic dungeons, world quests, LFR bosses, etc.
How many of that should it take.
Can you tell me an exact number, and give me a good reason why that exact number is right.
If you cannot give me such a reason, then you have no argument beyond an arbitrary number.

Why is X amount of say dungeons too much, or too little.
Why is this number right.

[Morbownz]

I prefer the new ssytem as now the system is at its truest form of what it was always suppose to be. A very slowly increasing bar that you never have to think about. This opens up the avenue of better alternative goals such as higher key stones as I personally never liked to do any keystone that couldnt be stomped but crush more time concious keys to farm up AP pre concordance.

I agree that everything up to concordance is fine, even better than it was previously for the majority of players. What comes after that it a never ending bar that will eventually stop players from caring about AP rewards. I don't see how this improves the game.

[kamuimac]

Why the fuck are people crying about not getting AK 50?

"Oh noes, it could have been 50 but it will not be, I am entitled to get something I never had in the first place!"

You know what else it could have been? AK 60, or even 70.

Would you like AK 70?, you can sit there and not play the game for the next 6 months to reach it and then get your lvl 35 artifact up to 100. After Argus.

Sounds great? Okay now cry about it, cuz it could have been AK 70, just like it could have been 50, or 40.

Cry about made up AK 70 now, there has been enough fucking pointless crying about made up AK 50, time to move on.

i wonder if its really that hard concept for half of people here are bored to death with ap grind and just want get it done and forget about it for rest of expansion

yes we get it some of people get off from masochistic grinds but other dont - dont try to make grinds look like fun - beyond certain point they are not and never will be thats why people want ak 50 to not think about ap ever in future in this expansion

[FelPlague]

No, you can buy 40-5=35 for your alts when you have 40 on your main.

nope, blizzard said "we however changed it so once you reach 40 Ak, you can buy 40AK books for alts"

- - - Updated - - -

i wonder if its really that hard concept for half of people here are bored to death with ap grind and just want get it done and forget about it for rest of expansion

yes we get it some of people get off from masochistic grinds but other dont - dont try to make grinds look like fun - beyond certain point they are not and never will be thats why people want ak 50 to not think about ap ever in future in this expansion

by the time you get to AK 50 you allready have cordanance, i have it without really trying and im about to get 38

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much the method that I'm following. There is someone on the official forums complaining that its not fair to cap at 40 since they are playing 12 classes and they _NEED_ Concordance on all 12...

you can easily get concordance with ak 40, it takes maybe a week max?

- - - Updated - - -

I see so many clueless people here it hurts.

If you think your proc of 2000 stat will be the same as mine with 5000-6000 stat (if not more), just because you stopped farming and I didn't, well, you're dearly mistaken. That's the difference between you having an LFR trinket from BRF and me having Soul Capacitor Mythic from HFC. Yes, yes, I'm sure 10 people will now come and tell me that +2K is all that matters it's all that you need.

WRONG.

On a full 20 man Mythic team, having all Concordance 10 (which we will have during early days of ToS 100%) versus having Concordance I is huge.

The farm is not over. Any Mythic player worth their salt will continue to farm just like before. The farm just got way worse, from being able to finish at 54, which was not easy, but also something that we actually manage to do early Nighthold, to INFINITY, which we will never finish, just farm forever, until whatever point the raiding community will feel like it's not worth it and it's better to put in offspecs.

Now, for offspecs. "Taking away 50 didn't affect you, since you didn't have it". What kind of next level ************** is this? Of course it will affect all of us. At 50 we would have leveled offspecs to higher levels of Concordance easier.

In case you still don't realize what they have taken away:

AK40: 4000100% This is where we will farm for ages. Insufficient.
AK50: 55200100% This is where we COULD have farmed instead. But you are happy getting LESS for the same effort - right?

The difference is not trivial, is in fact huge.

I beg you, please stop being so naive. Please have an inquisitive mind towards what Blizzard say and do, they don't have your best interests in mind, but theirs and their shareholders. Don't just swallow everything they say as truth and trumpet it as fact. Try to understand the motivations behind the actions and the PR speak.

One more edit: a "competitive edge" doesn't need to be large, it needs to be present. It is in our veins to try and rise above others in all kinds of aspects of life. Gaming is but one of them. If the edge, however small, is there, determined people WILL go for it.

yes because we should just tell blizzard to make gold 1000x easier to botain, and everything cost 1000x more gold
no problems right?

[FelPlague]

This is telling me you don't fully understand the system.

If you have an INFINITE trait where you can sink as much as you want it won't matter if you can get to 30 or 10 before it won't budge anymore due to low AK.

The problem is, offspecs become HARDER to level up at a decent level at AK40 vs AK50. Alts become harder too. AK50 was a ticket to an easier life for guilds like mine, that eye progress.

It's not similar to inflation by the way.

Also, as I said in the port above, the discussion about "is it worth it" is irrelevant. The discussion should be about WHY DO WE HAVE THIS and HOW DOES IT BENEFIT US PLAYERS, but none wants to discuss that, as it means they won't be able to do their whiteknight thing for Blizz.

except no.
i play about 2-3 hours a day now that i work
during that time i do a weekly pug on a few heroic nighthold bosses
a few M+ to get a 10+
and i am 52,50,48

at AK50 you could get to concordance in less then a day, it was bullshit and uneeded

is it worth it? yes, because we can farm in just 10 more days from now instead of 60, TOS will be out in about 20-30 days, meaning people wouold be "forced" to farm before ToS, when they are at Ak 42 ish.

having Ak 40 instead of AK50 means ToS will be balanced around having AK 40 instead of AK50, meaning the first like 7-8 clears of ToS wont be fucking hell

[Elbob]

Also, as I said in the port above, the discussion about "is it worth it" is irrelevant. The discussion should be about WHY DO WE HAVE THIS and HOW DOES IT BENEFIT US PLAYERS, but none wants to discuss that, as it means they won't be able to do their whiteknight thing for Blizz.

We have it to provide options on character progression. We can either slowly(i mean SLOWLY) increase the power of our main spec no matter when we play, OR catch up alts/offspecs that are behind our main spec. It is incredibly easy to keep your offspec within ~3-5 artifact levels of your main. Assuming you are post CoL on both these specs (which as a raider you will be come ToS) thats atmost 1500 main stat at 30ish% uptime. So if a fight requires you to play an offspec your dps loss is barely anymore then an augment rune.... gammmmeeee breaking. Many dps specs gain < .3% dps per point in CoL, and the % increase actually degrades the more gear/points you have (you gain a fixed amount of main stat which is a smaller and smaller % of your total main stat resulting in the same flat dps increase but not the same % increase.)

This benefits us players by giving us options on how we play the game. I now can choose between min/maxing my main at a DR'd rate cause its artifact is high level or I can go catch up my alt and keep it competitive with my main.

Blizzard wants the points in CoL to be relevant but not to the extreme the paragon points were on release. Maybe they will decide the points are too strong/weak and they can adjust them again but thats a blizzard choice and you sure can talk to them about that and try to convince them of your stance. As for the AK level nerf... you aren't wrong in that it now takes time to get your reroll/alt to CoL but when in wow's history has it not taken time to get a fresh character up to par with mains in a raiding guild (without significant playtime because you can get CoL in days at AK 40). Sure it almost came to be with AK 50 pre ToS but it never did so you can't really use something that never hit live as an argument.

[Razorice]

If you would just forget about the numbers in this game you wouldn't need to farm AP. I haven't ever farmed AP this expansion and I'm 2 points away from Concordance with 5 of my other altss not too far behind. Give AP a rest and go enjoy the game!

[Swalload]

i wonder if its really that hard concept for half of people here are bored to death with ap grind and just want get it done and forget about it for rest of expansion

yes we get it some of people get off from masochistic grinds but other dont - dont try to make grinds look like fun - beyond certain point they are not and never will be thats why people want ak 50 to not think about ap ever in future in this expansion

And the very moment people are really done with AP, the "well there's nothing left to do in the game anymore" posts will start RAINING

[Grobovshik]

AP was never meant to be an objective in and of itself.

Until you enter massively overtuned mythic raid. Every tiny piece of shit matters there at first weeks, concordance points included.

[smaktat]

You say you nerfed AK down to 40 levels to lower the amount of time people feel like they are horribly inefficient. Nicely thought out, but completly ineffectual. It's much easier to never give a kid candy then to give candy to the kid, make it wait for 2 months to get said candy, and then call backsies after a month. Regardless of if the kid ever deserved candy, that kid is going to be angry with you.

That's what you have done. Instead of feeling like their AP farming again means something at 40, you've essentially ensured that players will now feel that their AP farming is useless for the entire rest of the patch cycle. Congrats, you extended the problem you sought to fix indefinitely.

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact

That OP gave us AIDS with his terrible metaphor.

[Jimson]

You people are insane. You think more farming is benefiting players.

I am in shock. Are you devs in disguise? Do you get paid by Blizz to post this utter non-sense? It is "good" to reach Concordance later instead of in a few dungeons?

Oh. My. God.

After half an expansion of worthless farm, where they gave everyone same traits after 2-3 months basically, you think having even more farm in the game is good? For WHOM? It's definitely not good for me, any of my raiders, and any of my friends, as we talked ages about this, and NONE wants to bother. We just wanna raid, like we used to...

Aren't you the one arguing that more farming is benefiting players, while the rest of us say that you don't NEED to farm AP?

[Jimson]

No, I'm arguing that more stats from Concordance is benefiting players, and more so a full raid of people farming it, which is a statement that is true based on simple mathematical data.

That doesn't mean that I want to slave away for those stats. In fact, I'd rather have them fast and furious, and be done forever with it, until a new tier, then a new short period of farm, and then progress, and then relaxed farming.

I can understand that gaming can be confusing, but common :\

"You think more farming is benefiting players."

"No, I'm arguing that more stats from Concordance is benefiting players, and more so a full raid of people farming it, which is a statement that is true based on simple mathematical data."

I'm not confused; you're saying that farming is bad but farming benefits you.

You and your top-end ilk are the only ones farming or who care. The rest of us don't care AK is capped at 40 because Concordance is just something to dump points into, as Bliz intended. I'd go so far to argue that anyone not in the World First race shouldn't care, because what's the honest difference between a top 50 and top 500 guild outside of some bragging rights in a few circles?

[Saverem]

You say you nerfed AK down to 40 levels to lower the amount of time people feel like they are horribly inefficient. Nicely thought out, but completly ineffectual. It's much easier to never give a kid candy then to give candy to the kid, make it wait for 2 months to get said candy, and then call backsies after a month. Regardless of if the kid ever deserved candy, that kid is going to be angry with you.

That's what you have done. Instead of feeling like their AP farming again means something at 40, you've essentially ensured that players will now feel that their AP farming is useless for the entire rest of the patch cycle. Congrats, you extended the problem you sought to fix indefinitely.

What's the problem? Most people already have concordance for their main spec and we're not even at AK40 yet. By the time ToS comes out everyone raiding N or above will have concordance in at least one spec.

I don't even play that much or farm AP and I already have concordance in my main spec.


I see no issue with this change.

[Raelbo]

Until you enter massively overtuned mythic raid. Every tiny piece of shit matters there at first weeks, concordance points included.

The requirements for any mythic raiding guild have always, and continue to be, determined by the benchmark set by other players. Blizzard tune the difficulty to challenge what they believe are the capabilities of the best players in the world. They have even outright stated that the final tuning of mythic raids is done according to where people are with their artifacts, not according to where Blizzard think they should be.

This argument that you *need* these ridiculous amounts of artifact power to complete certain content is fallacious. The game will give you enough gear, both through ilevel and AP, to down the bosses in time. The only question is, whether you'll do it faster than competing guilds.

Ultimately it's up to each guild to decide how much effort they are prepared to put in to compete in the race, and then to decide on the best way to spend that time to maximise their results. Historically I think a lot of the top players overemphasised the importance of getting as much artifact power as possible because every extra trait provided a measurable increase in power. The problem is none of these people seemingly stopped to think about whether the effort was worth the returns, or whether they could spend their time more productively. They all just rushed ahead, spent crazy amounts of time grinding AP to the max and then got bored when their AP was being wasted.

In short, a lot of players never applied their minds properly, managed their time poorly, compromised their own enjoyment of the game, and then decided that the AP system must be at fault.