Thread: Disc nerf

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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    this makes a ton of sense. a dps healer with a spell that doesn't heal.
    What we have now makes a ton of sense. A dps healer with no aoe dps, and the only spec in the game with no aoe dps, for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    idk man i rerolled from a class with a history of problems created by aoe dps spells.
    That healed. Aoe dps spells that did smart healing. I honestly thought you were trolling earlier, because it's been said since this started pages ago that no healing from it would be fine. You can choose if you want to actually heal or you can choose to do more damage. Seems like interesting gameplay, especially in M+.

  2. #202
    I see no reason why we have to be the only spec without any aoe. Why can't we have a sort of holy nova, that does damage and transfers atonement healing only from one target, like DS or Halo, it won't break anything, it is irrelevant for raids, and we don't have to spec holy. I already feel that I should spec holy for more damage for lower keys or for solo quests, and this feels awful.

  3. #203
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    What we have now makes a ton of sense. A dps healer with no aoe dps, and the only spec in the game with no aoe dps, for that matter.
    I hope my arguments show you that there is no winning solution here. There are going to be huge problems with introducing the spell, regardless of what you do. The issue is, AOE DPS spells on DPS healers have extreme potential to be highly imbalanced. It is either too good (Blackout Kick Cleave, Crane Stance RJW) or too bad (current Divine Star).


    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post

    That healed. Aoe dps spells that did smart healing. I honestly thought you were trolling earlier, because it's been said since this started pages ago that no healing from it would be fine. You can choose if you want to actually heal or you can choose to do more damage. Seems like interesting gameplay, especially in M+.
    So every spell damage effect in the game procs atonement, including aoe dps trinkets, but the spammable aoe dps spelled added to disc doesn't heal? How much sense does this make in the context of the rest of the game?

    What about how this spell is completely useless if you're dealing with trash packs with any form of group damage period. What kind of gameplay is created by being forced to press single target spells on trash packs with 5 mobs, because your aoe dps spell doesn't heal. Pulls with a couple of mobs should be the highlight of the spell, but because it doesn't do any healing, it's objectively bad to press when hp bars are low.

    Also, lol. Obviously Smart healing was a big part of why Blackout Kick cleave was good, but this completely ignores the fact that these spells also outhealed other alternatives by a significant margin if you could use them.

    The inability to smart heal isn't an issue here for disc priest, since you can force atonements on the correct targets at all times. Either through sheer number of atonements, or by applying atonements at the cost of mana sustain for raid damage. Old Mistweaver had the problem where it was limited by a dumb smart heal, and it was on a cd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mintra View Post
    I see no reason why we have to be the only spec without any aoe. Why can't we have a sort of holy nova, that does damage and transfers atonement healing only from one target, like DS or Halo, it won't break anything, it is irrelevant for raids, and we don't have to spec holy. I already feel that I should spec holy for more damage for lower keys or for solo quests, and this feels awful.
    I don't understand why we can't just start with making Halo and Divine Star good spells, before adding new spells? How about Divine Star actually be worth the global cooldown to press from a healing pov, before we worry about the dps the spell does.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2017-06-19 at 04:02 PM.

  4. #204
    Put stupid scaling per target on it to make it so it's not worth using for healing? But keep the damage normal, this way you both follow with spec fantasy as well as giving a nice QOL. It's not like people are complaining about lack of aoe healing

    On a side note, Halo + divine star can't really feel that niche due to long cooldowns

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggon View Post
    Put stupid scaling per target on it to make it so it's not worth using for healing? But keep the damage normal, this way you both follow with spec fantasy as well as giving a nice QOL. It's not like people are complaining about lack of aoe healing

    On a side note, Halo + divine star can't really feel that niche due to long cooldowns
    So you agree, they should make Halo / DS better. Glad we can all agree

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post

    So every spell damage effect in the game procs atonement, including aoe dps trinkets, but the spammable aoe dps spelled added to disc doesn't heal? How much sense does this make in the context of the rest of the game?

    What about how this spell is completely useless if you're dealing with trash packs with any form of group damage period. What kind of gameplay is created by being forced to press single target spells on trash packs with 5 mobs, because your aoe dps spell doesn't heal. Pulls with a couple of mobs should be the highlight of the spell, but because it doesn't do any healing, it's objectively bad to press when hp bars are low.

    Also, lol. Obviously Smart healing was a big part of why Blackout Kick cleave was good, but this completely ignores the fact that these spells also outhealed other alternatives by a significant margin if you could use them.

    The inability to smart heal isn't an issue here for disc priest, since you can force atonements on the correct targets at all times. Either through sheer number of atonements, or by applying atonements at the cost of mana sustain for raid damage. Old Mistweaver had the problem where it was limited by a dumb smart heal, and it was on a cd.
    I disagree. If they simply added Holy Nova to disc it wouldn't be confusing at all, in my opinion. It would be a utility spell not used during your healing rotation exactly like it is for Holy. 100% completely the same. Is it confusing for holy priests to decide when they can push HN and when they're "forced" in your words to use their actual healing spells? No; it's not. I don't think buffing D Star or Halo is the right call either, because those spells do healing. They serve a different, rotational purpose outside of utility.

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    "This effect does not cause Atonement". I swear I've seen this on other spells in the game before; maybe in Cata when it was introduced.

  7. #207
    This is just getting more and more comical.

  8. #208
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    I disagree. If they simply added Holy Nova to disc it wouldn't be confusing at all, in my opinion. It would be a utility spell not used during your healing rotation exactly like it is for Holy. 100% completely the same. Is it confusing for holy priests to decide when they can push HN and when they're "forced" in your words to use their actual healing spells? No; it's not. I don't think buffing D Star or Halo is the right call either, because those spells do healing. They serve a different, rotational purpose outside of utility.

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    "This effect does not cause Atonement". I swear I've seen this on other spells in the game before; maybe in Cata when it was introduced.
    I'm repeating myself at this point. It is extremely confusing that this "holy nova 2.0" spell doesn't proc atonement, when all other effects in the game, including aoe dps trinkets, proc atonement. It makes no sense, why does this spell not proc atonement, but trinkets like orb of destruction does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    Is it confusing for holy priests to decide when they can push HN and when they're "forced" in your words to use their actual healing spells? No; it's not.
    Yes but you go from casting DPS spells to healing spells as holy. I don't know if you realize this, but disc priests do healing through damaging targets. So when it is time to heal on a trash pack with 10 mobs, instead of casting your aoe dps spell (you know, where it would make sense to do so), you're forced to cast smite instead. Makes a lot of sense to not cast an AoE DPS spell when you see a group of mobs right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    No; it's not. I don't think buffing D Star or Halo is the right call either, because those spells do healing. They serve a different, rotational purpose outside of utility.
    These spells are also bad atm. In halo's case it just needs a numbers increase. In regards to Divine Star, this is the perfect chance to make an AoE DPS spell for disc. Remove the healing portion of the spell, push the niche as a rotational aoe dps spell, and we just made Divine Star have use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggon View Post
    Put stupid scaling per target on it to make it so it's not worth using for healing? But keep the damage normal, this way you both follow with spec fantasy as well as giving a nice QOL. It's not like people are complaining about lack of aoe healing

    On a side note, Halo + divine star can't really feel that niche due to long cooldowns
    Are people even reading my posts? If it is not worth casting for healing, that means you don't cast it over spells like smite when it is time to heal. This is why people don't talent Divine Star right now. It is not worth damage wise, which subsequently means it is not worth healing wise.

    I want Divine Star to be good. Buffing Divine Star to be worthwhile dps/hps wise also improves people's problems with a lack of aoe dps spells for disc.

    Right now Divine Star doesn't even do more damage than smite to a single target, and smite has the ability to reset the cooldown of penance, and apply a large absorb shield to the target
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2017-06-20 at 03:44 AM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    I'm repeating myself at this point. It is extremely confusing that this "holy nova 2.0" spell doesn't proc atonement, when all other effects in the game, including aoe dps trinkets, proc atonement. It makes no sense, why does this spell not proc atonement, but trinkets like orb of destruction does?



    Yes but you go from casting DPS spells to healing spells as holy. I don't know if you realize this, but disc priests do healing through damaging targets. So when it is time to heal on a trash pack with 10 mobs, instead of casting your aoe dps spell (you know, where it would make sense to do so), you're forced to cast smite instead. Makes a lot of sense to not cast an AoE DPS spell when you see a group of mobs right?
    I guess we'll just have to disagree on these points. It seems straightforward to me, especially if they indicate it in the tooltip like they have done in the past. PW:Solace at one time maybe? Holy switches to their healing spells, disc switches to their spells that actually do healing. Neither are spamming Holy Nova when healing needs to be done.


    These spells are also bad atm. In halo's case it just needs a numbers increase. In regards to Divine Star, this is the perfect chance to make an AoE DPS spell for disc. Remove the healing portion of the spell, push the niche as a rotational aoe dps spell, and we just made Divine Star have use.
    I actually do like this solution if Halo is geared more toward healing and D Star toward damage. This would also help differentiate that talent row and give different options for different scenarios rather than PtW in all situations.

  10. #210
    I'm perfectly fine with additional customization. This is especially thematic for Discipline, which is all about personal transformation (using both the light and the shadow to fulfill one's goals). In this vein, Blizzard could introduce toggles to some talents or baseline abilities that switch them between two modes. So a high healing/low damage mode for Halo and Divine Star or a low healing/high damage mode.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunzi View Post
    I'm perfectly fine with additional customization. This is especially thematic for Discipline, which is all about personal transformation (using both the light and the shadow to fulfill one's goals). In this vein, Blizzard could introduce toggles to some talents or baseline abilities that switch them between two modes. So a high healing/low damage mode for Halo and Divine Star or a low healing/high damage mode.
    Like Chakras? No, please God, no.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    Like Chakras? No, please God, no.
    If it was just for certain talents maybe, but I have no idea how they would implement something like that. It would be better to just give different talents different functions like Supz suggested. A Chakra system would probably finally be a reroll for me tho... yuck.

  13. #213
    The Lightbringer Heathy's Avatar
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    well i've given new disc a little go and i don't mind it, i miss divine star but that new talent is pretty much blatantly the best choice. purge is great for spreading pain and saves gcds, but it seems a lot better than it was. gunna have to try get the new ring legendary so we can take castigation or even schism. I'm really not one for changing talents for every boss, i prefer finding something that works and sticking to it, i liked divine star more than halo because halo tends to pull shit its pretty much pointless for mosts fights when your raid leaves unpulled trash mobs, divine star is great when you have a melee heavy raid because you know its actually healing ppl when you fire it at melee, it was nice to use after a penance for the extra instant heal. on the flip side it just means you get to smite more and now smite absorb can stack upto something like 450k or so maybe 500k when before it capped out at something like 250k, not that you'll probably get chance to stack it that high on a raid boss but some content with slow swing timers maybe.

    basically its just less punishing to reactive heal now, you can plea an 11th person without it costing like 1/5th of your mana so you can heal more ppl than you could without potentially making yourself go oom.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-06-21 at 09:12 AM.

  14. #214
    I've found if you're depressed about Disc priests just listen to some Nujabes. The song is called Feather!

    8th post out of 10. (Rolls eyes)

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    Adding one badly designed aoe spell will destroy the spec. It is either a) shit or b) op.
    In case a) it will never be used and Blizzard would have to buff it.
    Divine Star disagrees with you.

  16. #216
    Making an aoe damage spell and then giving it the DS/Halo treatment doesn't solve anything. You do realise that that change (and the trinket ST/AOE reduction) is a half-assed attempt to fix the issue of aoe spells damage:healing conversion being quadratic. Eventually you have more exceptions than what makes the rule.

    Not going to argue the development of atonement, because that train is long gone. Suffice to say, the mechanic dug its own grave in this department. Disc doesn't have an aoe damage spell by design (i.e. it was on purpose).

    I'm not saying it won't work, I'm saying it's an inelegant solution that's bad for the long term. If we do get something like it, I want it to be done right. Some proper DR mechanic and not this crap that is ds/halo transfer.
    You are delusional if you think DS/halo in its current state is any good; most of it is nostalgic because it shares the same name/graphics of a similar spell you knew in MoP.

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