Thread: Resto in 7.2.5

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Resto in 7.2.5

    Been looking over it as much as possible lately and really finding that Druids will be forced to a reactive playstyle of sorts. Rejuv will still be big but swiftmend timing will be key. I think this will change the roll of Druid in the raid drastically. With Paladin getting huge light of dawn buffs I feel like they may be top of the AOE healing heap, thoughts?

    Comp Wise I think Druid, Shaman, Paladin, Monk will be the strong way to go, but not sure how to personally get my raid there, I have the option of moving to Paladin and its tempting but being a long time druid it makes me sad.

    Am I just missing something? I don't see the QQ I was expecting about these set bonuses and legendaries.

  2. #2
    Right now druids are probably the best healers. No nerfs in 7.2.5 and maybe small buffs to other healers. I think druids will be more than fine.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Right now druids are probably the best healers. No nerfs in 7.2.5 and maybe small buffs to other healers. I think druids will be more than fine.
    Yes - Druids are the best healers in 7.2, but it's false to say there are no nerfs coming. There are several nerfs.

    1. The Cultivation HoT is nerfed by about 25%.
    2. Legendary shoulders are nerfed by 40% (at least the raw potential of them). Almost all of the 75th+ percentile RDruid parses are using those shoulders, and the difference between shoulders used to high effectiveness and the next best legendary is potentially in the ~5% range - so this is a big hit.
    3. We are going to take a nerf because of our set bonuses. Our current T19 2 pc is ~3% healing, and the 4 pc is potentially up to 10%+. The T20 set bonuses are mediocre to poor. The 2 piece bonus adds very little throughput (<1%) and the 4 piece (as it just got nerfed in the build today) is 3%-4% max. We're going to be forced to move to T20, both due to raw ilvl and because they will just nerf T19 if keeping it is optimal. We could lose up to 10% relative power due to the move from T19 to T20.

    Certainly not no nerfs. I wouldn't be shocked if we are something like 15% weaker in 7.2.5 than we are on live as a result of the cumulative effect of all these changes. The 2 new legendaries are not likely to help, because both of them project out to be mid tier at best (and worse than the top 4-5 options we already have).

    Also, no I don't see our playstyle changing much. The 4pc has at least a 50% uptime (a little higher with 2 pc use). With it up that often, I doubt we are really going to be gaming our Swiftmend uses over just using it on near CD to maximize uptime of the buff. The only thing that will really change is Efflo uptime becoming more important than before, and using Swiftmend more rotationally than as an emergency heal.

  4. #4
    That where I worry that running two druids will no longer be as viable. The blanket healing is dropping a ton and more than likely our rejuv uptime will drop from shoulders being garbage, then factor in the loss of dramwalker procs...

    Druids are insane right now, but I think they will drop to 3rd come 7.2.5, possibly even 4th.

    Paladins are getting love and Light Dawn will be insane strong, possibly enough that using helm will be viable.
    Monk getting love across the board.
    Shamans are already close second on some fights and Tier bonuses are far and above better than druid.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Yes - Druids are the best healers in 7.2, but it's false to say there are no nerfs coming. There are several nerfs.

    1. The Cultivation HoT is nerfed by about 25%.
    2. Legendary shoulders are nerfed by 40% (at least the raw potential of them). Almost all of the 75th+ percentile RDruid parses are using those shoulders, and the difference between shoulders used to high effectiveness and the next best legendary is potentially in the ~5% range - so this is a big hit.
    3. We are going to take a nerf because of our set bonuses. Our current T19 2 pc is ~3% healing, and the 4 pc is potentially up to 10%+. The T20 set bonuses are mediocre to poor. The 2 piece bonus adds very little throughput (<1%) and the 4 piece (as it just got nerfed in the build today) is 3%-4% max. We're going to be forced to move to T20, both due to raw ilvl and because they will just nerf T19 if keeping it is optimal. We could lose up to 10% relative power due to the move from T19 to T20.

    Certainly not no nerfs. I wouldn't be shocked if we are something like 15% weaker in 7.2.5 than we are on live as a result of the cumulative effect of all these changes. The 2 new legendaries are not likely to help, because both of them project out to be mid tier at best (and worse than the top 4-5 options we already have).

    Also, no I don't see our playstyle changing much. The 4pc has at least a 50% uptime (a little higher with 2 pc use). With it up that often, I doubt we are really going to be gaming our Swiftmend uses over just using it on near CD to maximize uptime of the buff. The only thing that will really change is Efflo uptime becoming more important than before, and using Swiftmend more rotationally than as an emergency heal.
    My god heavens no. Our current playstyle will be nerfed, yes. But that playstyle simply changed into something else. I for one welcome the change into more efflorescense based healing. It is honestly boring to have a vast majority of your healing to be rejuvenation.

    We will most likely be using chest+shoulders off the T19, and rest T20, then use Velen's and the new SotF ring as legendaries. Incarnation will most likely be picked over Cultivation now, considering it was already very close.

    I tested the 4 set bonus on PTR, and with the 400% increase, efflorescense was up and critting past 1 million, since it stacked multiplicatively with the hots you have on the target, and your mastery. The new change will make it easier to have 100% uptime on the buff, and less of a burst heal. I don't know if that is good or not, since the burst heal fit our velen's choice much more.

    But all in all, we are off better with the changes incoming. It is not a nerf, simply a change in the playstyle.
    Last edited by Lundh; 2017-05-28 at 02:37 AM.

  6. #6
    2PC wont be viable as they will be nerfing it and creating a force away, already been said.

    Ring is a baseline, doesnt count towards your leg count, from what I saw.

    So my guess is Velens and bracers will be BiS but who knows. The nerf today will increase uptime, but drastically decrease throughput, doubled the time but 25% the throughput.

    I doubt it will be just a playstyle change.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    2PC wont be viable as they will be nerfing it and creating a force away, already been said.

    Ring is a baseline, doesnt count towards your leg count, from what I saw.

    So my guess is Velens and bracers will be BiS but who knows. The nerf today will increase uptime, but drastically decrease throughput, doubled the time but 25% the throughput.

    I doubt it will be just a playstyle change.
    It does not matter if they nerf the 2P. It is still an added bonus that can be obtained in addition to something else. They could cleave it in half, and it would still be good.

    From what i have tested on the PTR, it will simply be a change of playstyle. It is for me at least.
    Last edited by Lundh; 2017-05-25 at 02:12 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Yes - Druids are the best healers in 7.2, but it's false to say there are no nerfs coming. There are several nerfs.

    1. The Cultivation HoT is nerfed by about 25%.
    2. Legendary shoulders are nerfed by 40% (at least the raw potential of them). Almost all of the 75th+ percentile RDruid parses are using those shoulders, and the difference between shoulders used to high effectiveness and the next best legendary is potentially in the ~5% range - so this is a big hit.
    3. We are going to take a nerf because of our set bonuses. Our current T19 2 pc is ~3% healing, and the 4 pc is potentially up to 10%+. The T20 set bonuses are mediocre to poor. The 2 piece bonus adds very little throughput (<1%) and the 4 piece (as it just got nerfed in the build today) is 3%-4% max. We're going to be forced to move to T20, both due to raw ilvl and because they will just nerf T19 if keeping it is optimal. We could lose up to 10% relative power due to the move from T19 to T20.

    Certainly not no nerfs. I wouldn't be shocked if we are something like 15% weaker in 7.2.5 than we are on live as a result of the cumulative effect of all these changes. The 2 new legendaries are not likely to help, because both of them project out to be mid tier at best (and worse than the top 4-5 options we already have).

    Also, no I don't see our playstyle changing much. The 4pc has at least a 50% uptime (a little higher with 2 pc use). With it up that often, I doubt we are really going to be gaming our Swiftmend uses over just using it on near CD to maximize uptime of the buff. The only thing that will really change is Efflo uptime becoming more important than before, and using Swiftmend more rotationally than as an emergency heal.
    Well about t19 4p been up to 10% healing, it can also be as little as 2% it's really heavy RNG and it only proc a lot when you have germination and legendary shoulders.

    Maybe if we can get a really high ilvl pieces, it's better to use t19 2p and t20 2p with the new legendary ring. Looks like new legendary ring can be really powerfull, SotF is not a bad talent for resto, but the consistency of Cultivation take over the tier. Maybe with cultivation and shoulders nerf, ring will be a solid 2nd legendary, with Velen's for sure.

  9. #9
    Everyone will have ring and it will be your third.

  10. #10
    the cultivation nerf is so freakin minor I'm amazed they bothered; if that is the limit of what happens to the kit we should be jumping for joy

    the loss of the 4p (and loss of strong positive synergy with germination/shoulders) will be felt, but we replace it with a pretty decent T20 four piece.

    rdruid has so much going for it structurally (good cooldowns, unlimited mobility, high raw throughput) that it'll never really be bad. If monk/shaman/priest get buffed up some that's all to the good imo.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    Everyone will have ring and it will be your third.
    Legit, where did this rumor start and what substance does it have?
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Legit, where did this rumor start and what substance does it have?
    This is the first time I read this to be honest. So I went and checked the rings' tooltip on WoWHead along with the new legendaries and found out that those rings does not have the "Legion Legendary (1)" on them while the new legendaries do.
    People hated MoP but now many say it is the "Best" expansion. Given enough time, WoD will be the "Best" as well, I dare say.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Meteox View Post
    This is the first time I read this to be honest. So I went and checked the rings' tooltip on WoWHead along with the new legendaries and found out that those rings does not have the "Legion Legendary (1)" on them while the new legendaries do.
    Yeah, wowhead was missing it on the last patch as well, but wowdb was not, and here's a screenshot from in-game of it.

    Plus, people in the rdruid discord confirming that it counts towards the 2 legendary cap.
    *note: now available for purchase on the ptr.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Yeah, wowhead was missing it on the last patch as well, but wowdb was not, and here's a screenshot from in-game of it.

    Plus, people in the rdruid discord confirming that it counts towards the 2 legendary cap.
    *note: now available for purchase on the ptr.
    Ah I see, thank you for the screenshot. Frankly speaking, I never bothered with it as I have Tearstone and Velen's Future Sight (And all other resto legendaries but not the shoulders).
    People hated MoP but now many say it is the "Best" expansion. Given enough time, WoD will be the "Best" as well, I dare say.

  15. #15
    So the new rings are overbudgeted in terms of secondary stats? Not bad.

    Every second wild growth (with t20) being 75% stronger sounds good. If WG is 15% of your total healing, that ring would give you a 5.625% heal increase overall.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    So the new rings are overbudgeted in terms of secondary stats? Not bad.
    Actually, it's "underbudgeted". Tearstone of Elune has 2404 haste and 1335 mastery (3739 total), while the Soul of the Archdruid has 3204 total, both at 940. Just because it's split among 3 stats doesn't mean it's overbudgeted. But still can be adjusted. Only had 1000 total last week.
    Last edited by masterhorus8; 2017-05-25 at 08:00 AM.
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  17. #17
    Aww I can't math, somehow miscalculated that in my head, sorry.

    Would be a bit weird for it to stay underbudgeted though.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Legit, where did this rumor start and what substance does it have?
    The previously stated missing legion legendary line, which appears to be debunked.

    Sadly I don't know where the ring fits in then for some classes. Some its insane, others its trash. Most felt like it would come from a class quest and net a bonus slot for the end of the expansion, which made sense.

    At the end of the day I am still town as to what I should play and just wishing swiftmend wasn't what they wanted the druid playstyle to be.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    Paladins are getting love and Light Dawn will be insane strong, possibly enough that using helm will be viable.
    no and even if so what relevance would that have
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    Monk getting love across the board.
    what

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Actually, it's "underbudgeted". Tearstone of Elune has 2404 haste and 1335 mastery (3739 total), while the Soul of the Archdruid has 3204 total, both at 940. Just because it's split among 3 stats doesn't mean it's overbudgeted. But still can be adjusted. Only had 1000 total last week.
    Seems like it has the same ilvl budget as a 940 purple epic ring then? It's missing the "extra-budget" some legenadries received, like Pyrdaz, to make them more lucrative.

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