Thread: Resto in 7.2.5

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by fallenangel-succ View Post
    Prosperity was MAYBE a thing before the 4p nerf. Now with 50%+ uptime and a marginal effect, the flexibility offered by Prosperity is hardly worth the talent point.
    Having said that, I think the 4p is underrated even in its current form. 5% healing from set bonus is not too bad. Yes 4p19 was more than that, but it was/is broken. The more significant issue is the weakness of 2p20. I appreciate the shift of the bonuses to some lesser used parts of the rdruid kit, but the numbers aren't quite there, yet.
    It's not 5% healing unless Efflo is ~10% of your current healing. If it's really that high, you're probably AFKing or something. The set bonus will work out to probably ~3% added healing as an average and maybe ~4% in absolute best cases. That's really underwhelming for a 4 piece bonus, especially when the 2 piece is so weak it's a near 0% gain.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    It's not 5% healing unless Efflo is ~10% of your current healing. If it's really that high, you're probably AFKing or something. The set bonus will work out to probably ~3% added healing as an average and maybe ~4% in absolute best cases. That's really underwhelming for a 4 piece bonus, especially when the 2 piece is so weak it's a near 0% gain.
    Thats really what i wanted to ask. Efflo is typically not a significant portion of the healing i would do. Granted fight design does play role in this and i may just be terrible at this but it really makes the 4 piece kinda meh. Now having said that do your parses generally show high efflo healing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #43
    It's pretty easy to just look at top ranked RDruid parses and see the percentage of their healing coming from Efflo. On most fights, it ranges from 3% to 7%. The only fights where it is a lot higher than that is a fight like Tichondrius where the melee is just stacked for 95% of the fight (top Tich logs are up to ~10% Efflo healing).

    That suggests that this set bonus is probably only worth an average of +2.5% to +3.5% extra healing

  4. #44
    I think you guys should know that you don't calculate effectiveness of healing like you do damage. It's nonsensical to say "Efflo is 10% of my healing, so 50% uptime on a 100% healing buff is obviously a 5% gain" while completely disregarding minor details like When is the raid taking damage? or When should I use this. That's like saying the Tranquility boots are useless because Tranq is 7% of my healing, and the raid is under 60% HP like 10% of the time, so it's a 0.42% upgrade to use them.
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  5. #45
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    Tranq and efflo are probably not the best comparison. Unless your suggesting i should only efflo every 2 minutes.

    As far as the tranq boots go i got em but they sit in my bank. Trinket/shoulders/ring are all better and will remain better.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakloh View Post
    I think you guys should know that you don't calculate effectiveness of healing like you do damage. It's nonsensical to say "Efflo is 10% of my healing, so 50% uptime on a 100% healing buff is obviously a 5% gain" while completely disregarding minor details like When is the raid taking damage? or When should I use this. That's like saying the Tranquility boots are useless because Tranq is 7% of my healing, and the raid is under 60% HP like 10% of the time, so it's a 0.42% upgrade to use them.
    Well, if you use that as a criteria, Efflo is even less effective than it appears on logs, because it's a light ticking/meter padding spell with 100% uptime. The 4 piece isn't much better. At a 50% uptime buff, it isn't like it's some huge burst healing tool or anything. It's not going to be something you try to time - it will just become rotational to keep maximum uptime of it.

    And, the Tranq boots are generally regarded to be fairly terrible - at least if you have any of the top 6-8 legendaries to choose from, because there is not enough of a use case for them, because even if the raid starts <60% HP, they will likely be healed past that threshold before the last half of Tranq's duration

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Well, if you use that as a criteria, Efflo is even less effective than it appears on logs, because it's a light ticking/meter padding spell with 100% uptime. The 4 piece isn't much better. At a 50% uptime buff, it isn't like it's some huge burst healing tool or anything. It's not going to be something you try to time - it will just become rotational to keep maximum uptime of it.

    And, the Tranq boots are generally regarded to be fairly terrible - at least if you have any of the top 6-8 legendaries to choose from, because there is not enough of a use case for them, because even if the raid starts <60% HP, they will likely be healed past that threshold before the last half of Tranq's duration
    Actually thats a good question. If efflo does become rotational would you wait for it to exhaust beforr recasting? What happens if people move would you recast? Is it sustainable mana wise to keep it up on cd? The more i think about the less enthused i am about it.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually thats a good question. If efflo does become rotational would you wait for it to exhaust beforr recasting? What happens if people move would you recast? Is it sustainable mana wise to keep it up on cd? The more i think about the less enthused i am about it.
    what??? Efflo is and has been a rotational ability ever since it got a 30 sec duration. And why would you recast it if there are going to be people in it, and if there aren't why would you not recast it. This isnt anything new or ground breaking, its always been a question of wheter or not you will have enough people standing in it, and for long enough for it to be more efficient than casting a rejuv, and in most cases also wild growths. The math should be fairly simple.

    Is it sustainable mana wise to keep efflo up on cd??? or use SM on cd with efflo up?
    I mean there is literally no reason for this not to be worth it mana wise, and there is no reason that 2 spells you cast every 20-30 seconds will be too expensive to cast when you got 47k mana/5 sec regen.

    Also why would you do math based on how it only increases efflo healing by 50% when 2p clearly pushes this towards a higher number, and @Tiberria "meter padding"....... its very cheap healing that you have up before damage even goes out, there is no reason to call it meter padding at all.

    All this being said I doubt we will be using 4p until after progress, when we reliably can get mythic ilvl, and 2p will most likely be worth it with sotf ring.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    It's not 5% healing unless Efflo is ~10% of your current healing. If it's really that high, you're probably AFKing or something. The set bonus will work out to probably ~3% added healing as an average and maybe ~4% in absolute best cases. That's really underwhelming for a 4 piece bonus, especially when the 2 piece is so weak it's a near 0% gain.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=20

    1mill HPS (literally the first fight I grabbed.) 10% of my healing almost exactly. On fights like Star Augur which aren't even great for Efflo I got 13% healing out of it.

    Do you actually play this game?

    I mean to sound a bit less like a douche I looked over my top logs for Mythic fights, I also analyzed them with the legendary analyzer tool to see what the 4 set was doing for me.

    Mythic Star Augur:
    Efflo= 12.88% of my healing
    4 set= 6.69% of my healing

    Mythic Krosus:
    Efflo= 6.38% of my healing
    4set= 4.67% of my healing

    Mythic Tichondrius:
    Efflo= 8.52% of my healing
    4set= 4.13%

    Sure 4 set can be great, but it's random, not actually great at helping us choose where our healing goes, and as you can see sometimes its just rather shite.

    From my top logs it seems 4 set currently really doesn't do much. I grabbed my 1.1mil HPS Chronomatic log. 2.82% is just a bit sad.
    Last edited by Xanjori; 2017-05-29 at 04:14 PM.

  10. #50
    Didnt really checked, do you parsed with legendary shoulder on?

    That lego can really skew the result in a way or in another!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=20

    1mill HPS (literally the first fight I grabbed.) 10% of my healing almost exactly. On fights like Star Augur which aren't even great for Efflo I got 13% healing out of it.

    Do you actually play this game?

    I mean to sound a bit less like a douche I looked over my top logs for Mythic fights, I also analyzed them with the legendary analyzer tool to see what the 4 set was doing for me.

    Mythic Star Augur:
    Efflo= 12.88% of my healing
    4 set= 6.69% of my healing

    Mythic Krosus:
    Efflo= 6.38% of my healing
    4set= 4.67% of my healing

    Mythic Tichondrius:
    Efflo= 8.52% of my healing
    4set= 4.13%

    Sure 4 set can be great, but it's random, not actually great at helping us choose where our healing goes, and as you can see sometimes its just rather shite.

    From my top logs it seems 4 set currently really doesn't do much. I grabbed my 1.1mil HPS Chronomatic log. 2.82% is just a bit sad.
    Its not quite as bad as our resident theory craft overlord makes it out to be. But consider that with those 4 set numbers you are also getting a static 3-4% on top of that with 2p. So what you are really looking at is about 10% conservative bonus from T19. Also those numbers are really quite low for your 4p most people will have around 7-9% utilising the shoulders and aggressive hotting with germ.

    The problem is really not that t20 4set is ridiculously bad (which it is on some fights where getting under 7-8% Efflo hps is a thing) its that the 2p is utterly useless bringing down the value of the set as a whole largely.

    Considering how low healers are on gear priority the likely hood of any healer getting mythic 4p early is minimal. So this really becomes more of a non issue as other healers will have to forgo ilvl in the weeks if they want to get their bonus. Having said that the lego shoulder nerf is pretty detrimental to our T19 4p.

    A couple of weeks down the line when content is on farm I think rdruid will fall off pretty heavily but for when it matters e.g. the first 4 weeks, I think we are going to be decently strong. People underestimate Deep rooted imo as we have only had it during farm where healing is laughable. When your underhealing these fresh mythics fights I think we are going to see a lot of value (upwards of 5% healing) that will make up for our various nerfs.
    Last edited by Dangerfield; 2017-05-29 at 05:02 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Didnt really checked, do you parsed with legendary shoulder on?

    That lego can really skew the result in a way or in another!
    Yeah all those logs were with the shoulders on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I think currently the 4 set simply adds bloat to our healing, it makes it easier for us to pad without actually doing anything. Healers arent there to top meters remember (or no one would ever take shamans) they're there to keep people alive. Current 4 set does very little to actually keep people alive really, the increased Efflo can at least be targetted at where we know people will require healing.

    The two set is undoubtedly not great, but Swiftmend still remains one of the very few burst heals we have (especially on tanks) so there is some benefit there even if it may not appear so much on your meter.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Yeah all those logs were with the shoulders on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I think currently the 4 set simply adds bloat to our healing, it makes it easier for us to pad without actually doing anything. Healers arent there to top meters remember (or no one would ever take shamans) they're there to keep people alive. Current 4 set does very little to actually keep people alive really, the increased Efflo can at least be targetted at where we know people will require healing.

    The two set is undoubtedly not great, but Swiftmend still remains one of the very few burst heals we have (especially on tanks) so there is some benefit there even if it may not appear so much on your meter.
    You really don't understand how our class works, do you...?
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    You really don't understand how our class works, do you...?
    Yes, 90% + percentiles on all Mythic bosses, while having a 90%+ DPS percentile at the same time. I really struggle with this game. Why don't you teach me?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Yes, 90% + percentiles on all Mythic bosses, while having a 90%+ DPS percentile at the same time. I really struggle with this game. Why don't you teach me?
    Here is the character from the logs that you linked
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...eridon/cylania

    Would you like to repeat that statement?
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    And if you want to make a complaint about my sig, then too bad. You'll likely be on my ignore list with the 2 other idiots anyways.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Here is the character from the logs that you linked
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...eridon/cylania

    Would you like to repeat that statement?
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...11/#metric=hps

    Gonna keep talking?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    And that's exactly what I linked, just the main page for it. Try and keep up.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    And that's exactly what I linked, just the main page for it. Try and keep up.
    So what's your point? That like 2 are just below 90th percentile now?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Healers arent there to top meters remember (or no one would ever take shamans) they're there to keep people alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Yes, 90% + percentiles on all Mythic bosses, while having a 90%+ DPS percentile at the same time. I really struggle with this game. Why don't you teach me?
    :thinking:
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Maybe i'm wrong, but IIRC you pretty much failed all the prediction on the spec since the alpha's forums.
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