Jared Kushner confirmed as under scrutiny by FBI - NBC News

[Skandulous]

Yeah that's not how this works. School yard rules don't apply to nation states. We are not equals. Weaker powers pick fights with stronger powers at their own risk.

Russia picked a fight with the World's Only Superpower, whose resources and power vastly outstrip its own. That's not "even stevens". That's stupid and suicidal. The United States must remind Russia of it's place.

The best recompense for the 2016 hack is to throw Russia out of Swift and obliterate their financial system overnight. Make Russians Eat From Breadlines Again. And then seize the US-based assets of Putin's inner circle.

We do that and we'll see if anyone attacks us in this way ever again.

Good luck with that.

[Skroe]

Good luck with that.

Democrats will never forget 2016. Republicans post-Trump will be eager to re-assert their traditional anti-Russian policy priorities. Putin, being an idiot, aligned the entirety of the US political establishment against Russia.

I don't need luck. I need a time machine to skip to that happy future.

You can keep your luck.

[Skandulous]

Democrats will never forget 2016. Republicans post-Trump will be eager to re-assert their traditional anti-Russian policy priorities. Putin, being an idiot, aligned the entirety of the US political establishment against Russia.

I don't need luck. I need a time machine to skip to that happy future.

You can keep your luck.

Putin an idiot lmao he is the most powerful man in the world for a reason and you dont have to look past this country to see who the real idiots are.

[Halicia]

So... not seeing this discussed anywhere else...

What possible defense does the Trump administration have for needing a private line to Russia that's not monitored by US agencies that *doesn't* consist of Treason/Espionage ?

How can it be legal for *any* US citizen to try to use the diplomatic immunity of a foreign power to evade their own government's anti-espionage efforts ?

Snowden got roasted alive for this... and noone's batting an eye that Trump's building a pipeline to Russia for this kind of information ?

[Ripster42]

So... not seeing this discussed anywhere else...

What possible defense does the Trump administration have for needing a private line to Russia that's not monitored by US agencies that *doesn't* consist of Treason/Espionage ?

How can it be legal for *any* US citizen to try to use the diplomatic immunity of a foreign power to evade their own government's anti-espionage efforts ?

Snowden got roasted alive for this... and noone's batting an eye that Trump's building a pipeline to Russia for this kind of information ?

It should be noted, this contact happened even before trump was inaugurated. So at that point in time, zero. Literally no reason to have a back channel before trump is inaugurated.

[Breccia]

What possible defense does the Trump administration have for needing a private line to Russia that's not monitored by US agencies that *doesn't* consist of Treason/Espionage ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/jared...aign=buffer-bi

Scott Olson, a recently retired FBI agent who ran counterintelligence operations and spent more than 20 years at the bureau, agreed that it is not unusual for low-level staffers to work between governments and bypass bureaucracy to exchange views and build consensus in advance of higher-level negotiations.

But what Kushner appears to have done is "substantially different, in two ways," he said.

"First, he is not seeking a back-channel for a low-level staff exchange," Olson said. "He wants high-level direct-contact communication. This is extremely dangerous because it results in verbal (and therefore undocumented and unwitnessed) agreements, which are binding on governments. Free governments do not work this way. They can't. If they do, they are no longer free."

He continued:

"Second, he asked to use a foreign government's communication facilities. This is way beyond a private server. This is doing US government diplomatic business over a foreign government's communication system. It's not an off-the-record conversation. It's a conversation recorded by the opposing party. This shows a staggering lack of understanding of the US and its place in the world. Actually, it shows a staggering lack of common sense. When he negotiates a business deal does he use the other guy's notes?"

Kushner, President Donald Trump's son-in-law and a top White House adviser, was willing to go extraordinary lengths to establish a secret line of communication between the Trump administration and Russian government officials, The Washington Post reported Friday.

Kushner met with Russia's ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, in December at Trump Tower, where he floated the possibility of setting up a secure line of communication between the Trump transition team and Russia — and having those talks take place in Russian diplomatic facilities in the US. That would essentially conceal their interactions from US government scrutiny, The Post wrote, citing US intelligence officials briefed on the matter.

The New York Times confirmed the Post's story late Friday night, adding that the planned purpose for the secure channel was to discuss military strategies in Syria.

If true, "this actually is even more disturbing," said Susan Hennessey, a former attorney for the National Security Agency. "Why in God's name would they want to conceal plans on Syria strategy from the US military?"

"Even accepting their Syria spin, what Kushner tried to do was blind the US government on incredibly important national security matters," Hennessey added. "That's not how it works. That's not the behavior of someone who recognizes America is still, at its core, a common endeavor."

Kislyak reportedly passed along Kushner's request to Moscow. The Post's Ellen Nakashima, Adam Entous, and Greg Miller reported that the Russian ambassador was "taken aback" by Kushner's request, because it posed significant risks for both the Trump team and the Kremlin.

"This was probably as off-putting to Kislyak as it is for you and me," Michael Hayden, who served as the director of the NSA and the CIA, told CNN on Saturday. "This is off the map. I know of no other experience like this in our history, and certainly not within my life experience."

"What manner of ignorance, hubris, suspicion, and contempt [for the previous administration] would you have to have to think doing this with the Russian ambassador would be a good or appropriate idea?" Hayden added.

Kushner, who did not disclose the meeting on his security clearance form, is now under scrutiny in the FBI's investigation of Russia's election interference, and whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russian officials to undermine Hillary Clinton.

"GOOD GRIEF. This is serious," Robert Deitz, a veteran of the NSA and the CIA who worked under the Clinton and Bush administrations, said in an email of the latest developments.

"This raises a bunch of problematic issues. First, of course, is the Logan Act, which prohibits private individuals conducting negotiations on behalf of the US government with foreign governments. Second, it tends to reinforce the notion that Trump's various actions about Comey do constitute obstruction."

"In other words, there is now motive added to conduct," Deitz said. "This is a big problem for the President."

Trump fired FBI Director James Comey earlier this month as Comey was overseeing the FBI's investigation. Trump told NBC's Lester Holt shortly thereafter that "the Russia thing" was on his mind when he fired Comey, leading lawmakers and legal experts to question whether Trump obstructed justice — a criminal and impeachable offense.

Kushner was among those who pressured Trump to fire Comey, according to The New York Times.

"If you are in a position of public trust, and you talk to, meet, or collude with a foreign power" while trying to subvert normal state channels, "you are, in the eyes of the FBI and CIA, a traitor," said Glenn Carle, a former top counterterrorism official at the CIA for more than two decades. "That is what I spent my life getting foreigners to do with me, for the US government."

Carle said that if the Kushner-Kislyak meeting and reported discussion were an isolated incident, it could be spun as “normal back-channel communication arrangements among states."

But Kislyak and the Trump campaign interacted extensively, and Trump associates either kept those interactions secret from US officials or misrepresented them. Former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was forced to resign on February 13 amid questions about his communication with Kislyak, also spoke with the Russian ambassador about setting up a secret backchannel during the transition, according to Reuters.

Trump reportedly pressured Comey, in a meeting one day after Flynn resigned, to drop the bureau's investigation into his foreign contacts and payments.

"We know about the multiple meetings of Trump entourage members with Russian intel-related individuals," Carle said. "There will be many others that we do not know about."

[Shalcker]

What possible defense does the Trump administration have for needing a private line to Russia that's not monitored by US agencies that *doesn't* consist of Treason/Espionage ?

How about US agencies committing treason by leaking stuff to media out of their partisan convictions?

How can it be legal for *any* US citizen to try to use the diplomatic immunity of a foreign power to evade their own government's anti-espionage efforts ?

Isn't it in fact illegal for US agencies to monitor US citizens without clear reason, just because "they could be doing something wrong"?

[Blur4stuff]

Trump supporters can point in any direction they like and cry, "but look over there" all they want.

Doesn't change the fact that Kushner has been caught committing multiple felonies and that Trump has been obstructing.

[Moralgy]

Wait, this guy wanted to make a secret direct line to Russia for the Trump team and people are still saying "its all a conspiracy"?

[Belize]

Wait, this guy wanted to make a secret direct line to Russia for the Trump team and people are still saying "its all a conspiracy"?

B-b-b-but where's the evidence

[Skroe]

Putin an idiot lmao he is the most powerful man in the world for a reason and you dont have to look past this country to see who the real idiots are.

No. Putin isn't even the most powerful person in Eurasia (that would be Merkel and Xi Jinping ahead of him), much less the world. That's still the President of the United States.

What Putin is doing, is playing a highly offensive, dangerous foreign policy while the US and Europe have been purely reacting to his offensives for years. The second they start an offensive of their own, his power evaporates and the con of his strength is exposed.

We saw that in Syria, where 59 US cruise missiles made very, very clear that Russia can't protect anybody. It exposed Putin's power for the fraud that it is.

So yes, Putin is an idiot. His foreign policy only ends with the suffering of the Russian people, because Russia provoked a greater power.

[fengosa]

How about US agencies committing treason by leaking stuff to media out of their partisan convictions?

Isn't it in fact illegal for US agencies to monitor US citizens without clear reason, just because "they could be doing something wrong"?

1) This isn't partisan. If Democrats had done this they would be under investigation just the same.

2) Kushner wasn't he spied on. He talked to Russian agents who were being spied on which is not illegal.

It can't be that hard to get the facts straight.

[Shalcker]

What Putin is doing, is playing a highly offensive, dangerous foreign policy while the US and Europe have been purely reacting to his offensives for years. The second they start an offensive of their own, his power evaporates and the con of his strength is exposed.

How funny - situation looks exactly reversed here in Russia - US and Europe plays highly offensive, dangerous foreign policy in Ukraine, Syria, and elsewhere, while Putin have been purely reacting to their offensives for years.

And the moment US or EU will try to enact "real sanctions" you covet so much everyone will see how hollow is their power. That's why they don't do it.

[Eviscero]

Means absolutely nothing.

Stop posting so you keep The Insane title forever.

I am genuinely curious if there were die hard Nixon supporters back in the day that were so out of touch with reality they defended him even after he resigned in disgrace. What will the analogous sort do and say this time around?

[Shalcker]

1) This isn't partisan. If Democrats had done this they would be under investigation just the same.

They wouldn't get so many leaks to media, and media would try to spin it as "usual stuff diplomats do"... because it is quite usual.

2) Kushner wasn't he spied on. He talked to Russian agents who were being spied on which is not illegal.

Talking to Russian agents isn't illegal either.

[fengosa]

How funny - situation looks exactly reversed here in Russia - US and Europe plays highly offensive, dangerous foreign policy in Ukraine, Syria, and elsewhere, while Putin have been purely reacting to their offensives for years.

And the moment US or EU will try to enact "real sanctions" you covet so much everyone will see how hollow is their power. That's why they don't do it.

Georgia and Crimea beg to differ. Russia was the aggressor in both instances.

[Eviscero]

How about US agencies committing treason by leaking stuff to media out of their partisan convictions?

Isn't it in fact illegal for US agencies to monitor US citizens without clear reason, just because "they could be doing something wrong"?

Kushner was identified by Kislyak in a call that involved only Russians. Even still his name would have had to be unmasked, and only if there were compelling reason to. Cleary there is compelling fucking reason. Your implication that the basis of the investigation into Kushner is illegal is ignorant, but suggests you know that the US is a nation of laws.

[Stacyrect]

Kushner was identified by Kislyak in a call that involved only Russians. Even still his name would have had to be unmasked, and only if there were compelling reason to. Cleary there is compelling fucking reason. Your implication that the basis of the investigation into Kushner is illegal is ignorant, but suggests you know that the US is a nation of laws.

Given that FISA courts just released (Via FOIA) their was a 85% non-compliance rate with unmasking procedures during the election cycle. There is more information that suggests this was political espionage, not legitimate.

[fengosa]

They wouldn't get so many leaks to media, and media would try to spin it as "usual stuff diplomats do"... because it is quite usual.

Talking to Russian agents isn't illegal either.

The leaks are coming out in response to Trump firing Comey. That isn't partisan. It's treating Trump like he deserves to be treating and setting up back channel with a foreign government is not things usual governments do.

It depends on what they talked about. Perhaps it was nothing but if so why didn't Kushner report those conversations on his security clearance?

[Eviscero]

Given that FISA courts just released (Via FOIA) their was a 85% non-compliance rate with unmasking procedures during the election cycle. There is more information that suggests this was political espionage, not legitimate.

That's terrible if true. Especially since 85% error rate is apparently unexceptional. So that clipping does more to refute the idea of political espionage targetting Trump during the campaign year. But drawing any conclusion about the reason behind that error rate is really a bad fucking idea.