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  1. #21
    I couldn't make it past "LUL DESIGN." Doesn't make for a good argument.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    When you want people to read your post, value it and give feedback , you should consider to make it well formated, well documented and your arguments should be as clear as possible.
    "LUL Design"? No. "Artefacts" no as well.
    Last edited by mmocc7c54e0483; 2017-05-28 at 06:26 AM.

  3. #23
    Blizzard will twist this system and made it into something different but similar like garrison and order hall, current legs will have their effects made trivial past 110 and peoples will simply restart the treadmill.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  4. #24

  5. #25
    Let me tell you some "facts", far more accurate than yours.

    Firstly my acquisition of legendaries has been different to yours, and even at 30 that would be a fraction of my inventory.
    It is very far even with that scenario from being "all orange".
    Plus I CAN use legendaries other than TWO BiS ones.
    I just in select cases may not want to.
    A vast difference.

    If you base your argument on what you are "sure" other people are experiencing, other than actually providing you know - an actual argument then you have already lost.

    The colour had no consistent meaning even with epics during vanilla.
    Getting hung up on the colour is quite simply wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  6. #26
    I don't buy into everything you're saying, but I'm not thrilled with the legendary "inflation" we've seen this xpac that's made it closer to Diablo than WoW. When everything is legendary, nothing is. Used to be really cool to see someone with an orange weapon or two, now everyone's bags are full.

    I can't imagine anyone's going to end up with all legendaries for 3 specs this xpac though unless they're hardcore nolife basement-dwelling virgins.

  7. #27
    The only reason we have as many oranges as we currently do in-game is because people from the Diablo 3 team were moved over onto the WoW development team.

  8. #28
    By the time it took you to write this ball of crap, you could've farmed 100mil ap easily and prolly get a legendary
    "Ahhh ahhhhh, ahhh, yeah, ahhhh, YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh" Jenna Jameson

  9. #29
    Brewmaster TheVaryag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhonnyQ View Post
    This might be a longer post and in 1-2 years, I will refer to this post and I will say "Called it!".

    I will first tell you some facts about the current state of the game, the past and what will happen in the future with WoW by refering to other games.

    Fell free to post your opinion on my prediction and your point of view. I'm sorry, if the layout is a little bit chaotic.


    Current State:

    If you look in your inventory. What do you see? You see orange. ORANGE everywhere. I currently have 10 legendaries and after Blizzards addition of new legendaries in further patches and after getting offspec legendaries, I will end up having ALL legendaries for all specs (at some day). I'm pretty sure, everybody will. You will end up having ~30 legendaries. Ok, maybe not exactly 30, maybe 20 or 15, depending on the amout of time/luck, but certainly, you will have simply too many.

    You can only use 2 out of your 30 legendaries. They fill up an entire Bag in your inventory. Imagine being into the next expansion, you will have 30 legendaries you want to keep simply for nostaliga. LUL DESIGN

    Imagine you have 15 legendaries now and there is a new patch. You have to upgrade 15 legendaries. Imo, this is a pretty stupid grind which is also very repetitive and kinda unnecessary. LUL DESIGN

    Than there is the "Let us use more than 2 legendaries at one time!"-wish. Well currently this is not possible, because of how legendaries work. (They are simply too strong and you can prohibit the core function of the game: Improving your character). Simply find the legendary. Done.

    Prediction:

    I personally think, the whole legendary system is pretty much bad thought out. The whole balancing, the Drop-RNG, the amout of legendaries you actually have. The problem with the bag space, the limitation to two legendaries, the BiS or worst- thing, the storing problem after legion, the "stupid" ilvl upgrade after every major patch. It's not fun. Its cancer.

    This kinda works for the current state of the game, but what will happen in the next expansion. Do you honestly believe, Blizzard will send 10 Game Directors to the Blizzcon stage and they will tell you "Yea, you will be able to find legendaries again. As in Legion. Same System. Same amount of ledgys. Same Rng. Same Balancing-Problems." NO, THEY WON'T. Legendaries are boon and bane at the same time. Everybody loves them, but you hate getting the wrong one. You allow people to get 30 legendaries and they still complain? You did something wrong.

    So there has to be a different way for the futue and after considering some other aspects (I tell you!), there can only be one way.

    Other aspects:

    1. We have artefacts. The first thing about artefacts is, that it was THE BAIT for legion. Have you every imagined, that you will get artefacts at all? That you will wear Ashbringers? That EVERYBODY will wear Ashbringers? That you will get it after 2 Minute playing? I bet not. But now thats common. That's important to realize, because thats the way of blizzards thinking and you have to expect this in the future to happen again.

    2. Now, Artefacts will be gone after Legion and with it, the entire AP grinding and everything tied to it, mostly important the reward system of worldquests, PVE loot, PVP loot, Missions and anything else. If you don't know what to reward, you will get AP. But after legion? What do you get for doing Worldquests? Or PvE or PVP? Blizzard already said, they love the "AP system" and they try to find a way to keep it and they NEED IT. (I will refer to that). We need a reason to do something.

    3. Another aspect I want to state here: Titanforge. Titanforge is kinda nice, but at the same time, it makes you feel salty. You hope to get your setitem procced to 920, but instead you get the LFR non-set cloak procced to 925. Go LFR Guldan and see the trinkets proccing to 900. You don't think thats happening? XD.
    I myself, looted LFR guldan trinkets on Mythic Guldan level. This has to be gone in the future, OR limited to be not that crazy. LUL DESIGN

    4. WoW is heavily influcend by D3 in the Expansion. Which is not that bad, because imo it works. In WoD, WoW was kinda influenced by the "Browser Game Type", which was way worse. But you have to expect, that the next expansion will be influenced by something, that is currently popular. Check Heroes of the Storm i.e. and you will see whats popular: Skins. (Oh, we already have Artefact skins and Wardrobe and Ensambles!!!). You can expect that, to be continued as a type of rewarding. BY A LOT.


    Short Conclusion:

    - Legendary system has to be reworked
    - Artefact Reward System has to be replaced with a similar thing
    - A new Bait has to be created.

    How can this Bait look like?

    We already have artefacts. We already have 30 legendaries. We pretty much have everything, expect: Full legendary Equipment. And this is what we will get in the next Expansion and I will tell you how it works. There is no other way. Blizzard would never take a step back.

    You will be able to wear every single slotpiece with legendaries. But that doesn't mean you would use all your Legion legendaries at the same time. No. Different. Since the system will be reworked, you will have gear, which works the same as your current artefact weapon, but in a very slight version.

    Example:

    You go to a Vendor and buy your starting gear. This will be completly blue and lets say itemlevel 1000 in the next Expansion (Same as orderhallset). Now you start to progress on all this gear (one, by one) and you will increase its itemlevel to 1050 for example. After you reached itemlevel 1100 on one piece, i.e. the helmet, the helmet will turn into an epic helmet and this will allow the helmet to have another benefit. For example a socket. This will continue until itemlevel 1200. After 1200, your helmet will become legendary and will have a legendary effect. Let's say "You have blink as a Paladin" (ONLY EXAMPLE). This will work for every gear piece, and the leveling of every piece one by one, will allow you to choose which legendary you want. NO MORE RNG! The Itemlevel will be capped at 1300 i.e. and increased after futher patches.

    So, you start leveling your helmet. It's getting legendary. Thx. Now you level your Pants. Legendary now. Thx. Now you have 2 legendary effects active. Now, you can level your third gear, make it legendary and get an legendary effect, but this effect will be inactive. You will only have 2 legendary effects active at one time. Same as in legion.

    Leveling a gear-piece will be the same as leveling your artefact. You will loot some sort of Power-Token which you can use to upgrade your helmet by 0.1 ilvl for example. This tokens can be easily capped per week if needed. (Same gating mechanic as Artefact knowledge, just another way of implementation, so you won't be full legendary after 2mins)

    You can easily create a mechanic: Power-Token from normal instances allows upgrading until 1050. Power-Token from Mythic+ 10 Bosses allow upgrading until 1150. Mythic+15 Bosses or Mythic Bosses allow upgrading until the limit. (Or something similar, else its MAW2018 again)

    This will allow Blizzard to make a reward type, same as Artefact Power and they can place it everywhere they want to. Problem solved. They can create a "huge" bait to call it out on stage at blizzcond. Problem solved. They allow people to go the way they want to, no more RNG. Problem solved.

    OH, and ofcourse they implement reforging again. Because everybody loves it and because BiS-Stats are cancer.

    What about Sets?

    Easy. Every Legendary Item will have a socket room for a rune. Sets will now be "runes" which are dropped by bosses, similar as tokens. Combine 4 runes to get a set-bonus. EASY. Hi, Diablo 2. So, a rune for the Helmet, Shoulder, Cloak, Chest, Gloves, Pants. Basically.


    SO THERE WON'T BE ANY LOOT DROPS ANYMORE WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yes. My Mage has ~820 Chaoscrystals. Here are your lootdrops. Getting loot drops are funny and a core mechanic of the game, but because of the current state, there is no way around. Greens are already useless. Blues are useless. Epics are useless unless, they have BiS Stats, socket and warforged 500 levels. Oh, and they don't have to collide with Setslots or Bis legendary slots. LUUL

    To be honest, the lootsystem has to change completly. And at this point, I want to cite me again and want to tell you what will replace that loot problem: Tokens, Tokens, Tokens. Oh, and Skins. Maybe Banners, Sprays, Toys, all that mainstream sh*t). Overall this is way better for us, but at the same time, it feels awkward and unbelievable. Just as unbelievable as getting ashbringers.

    Some more facts to defend my post:

    - You can't make a new expansion and remove artefacts and only allow us having or getting 2 legendaries and the other gear is epic.
    - There are only two ways: Make Epics super rare again or go to the other extreme. Blizzard is cleary going the other extreme. ORANGE.
    - It doesn't matter if I want this change to happen, but it's unavoidable.
    - All Legendaries will become heirlooms without effects after the current expansion.
    - Just read my post again and I think I have explained everything as good as I probably can.
    - If you don't share my opinion, try to elaborate.

    PS: MFW if this will actually be true, blizzard, send me a PM, wont tell.
    D3 Influence not bad? I'll just stop reading right there and already write a response, pardon me.

    D3 Influencing this Is HORRIFICLY BAD, and how about Wow just being WoW like It was In Vanilla and even better, In TBC rather then trying to -be- like other Blizzard Games? Stop It Blizz, WoW was good the way It was before Cataclysm ruined It and arguably a few systems from Wrath too.

    Titanforged needs to happen only In outdoor questing, when you're leveling, normal dungeons and that's It... It should have no place In high-end WoW at all, the end.

    Legendaries the way they work now, aka the Diablo 3 route Is very, very bad. That's not what Legendaries are on WoW, hell there are items which are Epic that are more legendary to have and I still have them and feel that my aquisition of them was more legendary than getting any of this "Legendary" swivel from Legion.

    Which of these sounds better:

    I've wandered Into a fel riddled zone, killed a wolf and there from the wolf's gut drops the ring of nathrezim sex appeal, wohoo legendary...

    or...

    I went to the very depths of Blackrock Mountain Itself, fought the servants of the Firelord through trial and error, destroying fire seals and collecting Ingots, defeating the very Firelord himself. Then taking the Ingots back to the lava flow at the Molten Core's entrance, smelt the Ingots I found Into bars and then using the Dark Iron Anvil I forged a hammer worthy of the name Sulfuros In the very depths of hell Itself...

    And now imagine, that ontop of creating that hammer you had to put Artifact Power Into It, or else It hit as much as a level 5 hammer you found on a centaur's corpse. That would be WoW today If Vanilla had came out now.

    What Legendaries are In WoW Legion (And arguably Diablo 3 but then I never played Diablo 3 and never will) are Epics with a fancy effect. Which Is what they were trying to emulate In legion, the epics drops you got from Vanilla, like the Fiery War Axe (Inspiration for the Hearthstone Warrior weapon as well) or Jordan's staff? It was an epic drop which is now the Inspiration for the PvP Staff Heirloom of a similar name and so on and so on.. those felt great to have dropped for you, I myself had the staff drop for me and sold It for a ton of gold back In TBC, It's just one of those lucky things.


    I agree that they should just have epics or unique names drop again In the world, and either sell them to a friend, a guildie, someone on the AH who collects weapons (Not armor pieces, because comeone.. who cares about having Kil'jaeden's pants of peeing that opens a portal on a random demon controlled planet and starts pissing through It and giving you a stamina buff for half an hour) that Is what ARtifacts should've been this expansion, rare dropable Items, they might not make as much sense as the whole ring dropping from a wolf's gut, but at least raids wouldn't depend on these drops to progress and kick It's members for not having the luck of the draw In terms of Legendaries and therefore sucking balls In DPS/healing/tanking because of not having a single legendary.

    However, I hope they DONT bring In legendaries at all this way, It was fine how you had legendaries for say, casters In Cataclysm, and then daggers, or was It the other way around? 7 years Is quite a while... then Mists which had cloaks for everyone, and a ring In warlords making us feel like Sauron. That was okay. It was something to build towards as you do the content you would do anyway, the pacing was good In WoD for all It's later problems with Garrisons and content draught. Not only pacing, but Campaign Stories were GOOD... you actually got stories, In 7.2 all we get Is "Go here, kill 100 demons" or "Go all over here, find me 10 chests" and before that 5.1 Landfall did Campaigns good as well. Anyway, gear aquisition was steady and good, from normals, to heroics to LFR releases... all apart from Blackrock Foudry though, that felt like It released too soon.

    As well as Artifacts, just make them epics as I mentioned, as well as removing World Quests with voices Invading our heads out of nowhere. Daily Quest Hubs were fine, they weren't perfect but World Quests feel like a step backwards. Hubs took you roughly 30 minutes to complete, with a pre-planned route and everything. World Quests can take you hours to do, all of them. And If you're a hardcore player, a raider or PvPer especially you -have- to, cause if you fall behind on gear or artifact power you're objectively weaker as there's no high end pvp gear anymore, at least not of any significance as before, and that, because It cators to casuals I don't want world quests, they -can- apply the Emissary system, say daily hub A, B and C are unlocked, go do them, and they'll stay unlocked for 3 days or something similar, the Emissary system I see no problem with so far.

    All In all, half of your arguments are nice and the predictions are Interesting, but I hope Blizzard takes away an important lesson from Legion, and that's "Casuals cant' maintain your entire game" you need your hardcore audience and they've slowly been dripping away from you since Legion Launched. Legion Is a casual's dream... If you want to pay 13 euros to come on once a couple of weeks to make very little progress and feel good about yourself, and just keep doing that for years and years.... sure. And I don't blame people, your time Is limited but so Is your finances surely which should be precious to you as well. But WoW has always been a game about If you can't commit, you won't get the toppest best possibly gear, that's just how It Is... and I've never been a high end PvPer, I loved to PvP, a lot. And tried to do arena plenty of times, rated BGs and such, but I never took It so far and I was quite happy.
    Permabanned on WoW since April 14th 2015, main acc I had since vanilla gone and trashed for no good reason, 6+ years later still banned with more appeals resulting in my BATTLENET games being suspended for a month eachtime I try making TICKETS because I'm asking for help with the perma ban. Blizzard has stopped caring for their first veteran players and would rather we leave, considering the Lawsuit, can you afford to keep peps banned even for so long under questionable circumstances?

  10. #30
    Next expansion new talents will be random

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    D3 Influence not bad? I'll just stop reading right there and already write a response, pardon me.

    D3 Influencing this Is HORRIFICLY BAD, and how about Wow just being WoW like It was In Vanilla and even better, In TBC rather then trying to -be- like other Blizzard Games? Stop It Blizz, WoW was good the way It was before Cataclysm ruined It and arguably a few systems from Wrath too.

    Titanforged needs to happen only In outdoor questing, when you're leveling, normal dungeons and that's It... It should have no place In high-end WoW at all, the end.

    Legendaries the way they work now, aka the Diablo 3 route Is very, very bad. That's not what Legendaries are on WoW, hell there are items which are Epic that are more legendary to have and I still have them and feel that my aquisition of them was more legendary than getting any of this "Legendary" swivel from Legion.

    Which of these sounds better:

    I've wandered Into a fel riddled zone, killed a wolf and there from the wolf's gut drops the ring of nathrezim sex appeal, wohoo legendary...

    or...

    I went to the very depths of Blackrock Mountain Itself, fought the servants of the Firelord through trial and error, destroying fire seals and collecting Ingots, defeating the very Firelord himself. Then taking the Ingots back to the lava flow at the Molten Core's entrance, smelt the Ingots I found Into bars and then using the Dark Iron Anvil I forged a hammer worthy of the name Sulfuros In the very depths of hell Itself...

    And now imagine, that ontop of creating that hammer you had to put Artifact Power Into It, or else It hit as much as a level 5 hammer you found on a centaur's corpse. That would be WoW today If Vanilla had came out now.

    What Legendaries are In WoW Legion (And arguably Diablo 3 but then I never played Diablo 3 and never will) are Epics with a fancy effect. Which Is what they were trying to emulate In legion, the epics drops you got from Vanilla, like the Fiery War Axe (Inspiration for the Hearthstone Warrior weapon as well) or Jordan's staff? It was an epic drop which is now the Inspiration for the PvP Staff Heirloom of a similar name and so on and so on.. those felt great to have dropped for you, I myself had the staff drop for me and sold It for a ton of gold back In TBC, It's just one of those lucky things.


    I agree that they should just have epics or unique names drop again In the world, and either sell them to a friend, a guildie, someone on the AH who collects weapons (Not armor pieces, because comeone.. who cares about having Kil'jaeden's pants of peeing that opens a portal on a random demon controlled planet and starts pissing through It and giving you a stamina buff for half an hour) that Is what ARtifacts should've been this expansion, rare dropable Items, they might not make as much sense as the whole ring dropping from a wolf's gut, but at least raids wouldn't depend on these drops to progress and kick It's members for not having the luck of the draw In terms of Legendaries and therefore sucking balls In DPS/healing/tanking because of not having a single legendary.

    However, I hope they DONT bring In legendaries at all this way, It was fine how you had legendaries for say, casters In Cataclysm, and then daggers, or was It the other way around? 7 years Is quite a while... then Mists which had cloaks for everyone, and a ring In warlords making us feel like Sauron. That was okay. It was something to build towards as you do the content you would do anyway, the pacing was good In WoD for all It's later problems with Garrisons and content draught. Not only pacing, but Campaign Stories were GOOD... you actually got stories, In 7.2 all we get Is "Go here, kill 100 demons" or "Go all over here, find me 10 chests" and before that 5.1 Landfall did Campaigns good as well. Anyway, gear aquisition was steady and good, from normals, to heroics to LFR releases... all apart from Blackrock Foudry though, that felt like It released too soon.

    As well as Artifacts, just make them epics as I mentioned, as well as removing World Quests with voices Invading our heads out of nowhere. Daily Quest Hubs were fine, they weren't perfect but World Quests feel like a step backwards. Hubs took you roughly 30 minutes to complete, with a pre-planned route and everything. World Quests can take you hours to do, all of them. And If you're a hardcore player, a raider or PvPer especially you -have- to, cause if you fall behind on gear or artifact power you're objectively weaker as there's no high end pvp gear anymore, at least not of any significance as before, and that, because It cators to casuals I don't want world quests, they -can- apply the Emissary system, say daily hub A, B and C are unlocked, go do them, and they'll stay unlocked for 3 days or something similar, the Emissary system I see no problem with so far.

    All In all, half of your arguments are nice and the predictions are Interesting, but I hope Blizzard takes away an important lesson from Legion, and that's "Casuals cant' maintain your entire game" you need your hardcore audience and they've slowly been dripping away from you since Legion Launched. Legion Is a casual's dream... If you want to pay 13 euros to come on once a couple of weeks to make very little progress and feel good about yourself, and just keep doing that for years and years.... sure. And I don't blame people, your time Is limited but so Is your finances surely which should be precious to you as well. But WoW has always been a game about If you can't commit, you won't get the toppest best possibly gear, that's just how It Is... and I've never been a high end PvPer, I loved to PvP, a lot. And tried to do arena plenty of times, rated BGs and such, but I never took It so far and I was quite happy.
    why do you even post a wall of text like that and expect it to be read if you dont even read the op's post

  12. #32
    Deleted
    I have no idea how blizzards future character development plans look like.

    My hope would be to allow every playstyle character progression, no matter if you are grouped up, or not.

  13. #33
    I would honestly love this.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Trapped View Post
    Had a hard time reading after "artefacts".... everything I've seen in Legion says artifact, not artefact *shrug*.

    But you could be right. Most people agree the legendary system is awful, and to me, there are way too many of them. Any system that punishes you for not getting the "right" Legendary is a bad system, and I've said that before.

    Tbh, I think having Valor Points and Badges of Justice back would be a good starting point in fixing this shitstorm.
    Because using a different spelling, is wrong now o.0

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by imunreal View Post
    Because using a different spelling, is wrong now o.0
    Every single usage of it in the game is artifact, lol. I have never seen it spelled as artefact before, and in fact, as I type this, artefact has a red line under it, flagging it as a spelling error. If its more of an EU thing, my apologies.
    Problems with WoW: No server communities, too much cross-realm crap, too many raiding difficulties, guilds don't matter anymore.
    Fix it: Limit server transfers, merge more servers, reduce raiding to 2 difficulties (N/H, 10/25), bring raiding back to guilds again (limit # of cross-realm players in your group). #MakeWoWGreatAgain

  16. #36
    Warchief Benomatic's Avatar
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    Allow us to discuss these "FACTS"

  17. #37
    Deleted
    It is highly unlikely that they do away with any loot an basically make everything only drop tokens. After the whole "You should feed excited when you get a legendary or high titanforged" thing, even more so.

    I would be rather surprised if they got rid of legendaries and WF/TF like they are now. They are just too good a retention mechanism to pass up. There will be the minority of players that will not play it, but the majority actually will and they will probably play more than they would in a WoW without them.

    My guess is they just come up with a new "Secondary Talent system" that actually requires you to unlock talents with points, similar to how the prestige system was originally. I can fully understand that they like AP as they are now, because - again - it's a great retention mechanism for them.

    As any first-year business student will be able to tell you: WoW has long reached the "cash cow" state of the BCG 4 quadrant matrix. Common business strategy is to milk it while keeping investments into it at a minimum.

    There will be a new "Bait", sure. But we will not know what that is until probably this year's BlizzCon.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Honestly, I would put one legendary per spec next expansion. That legendary will be hard af to get, farm materials, go through an epic questline to get "the power of this thing that famousperson had".

    An item that you at first have it at blue quality with a cool bonus effect. As the expansion goes on, you upgrade it to purple, the bonus effect is even cooler. In the end, you manage to turn it into a legendary, by unleashing its full power.

    Have this "legendary" as progression, that's it. Go to raids, get cool items, craft materials, and give it a story.

    Basically, like an artifact but without the ap farming and traits and stuff.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    I wouldnt mind if WoW adapted PoE gear system. Current one is pretty much: " do highest available content and check simcraft if you got upgrade"

  20. #40
    Deleted
    I actually did read. Was a challenge.

    My conclussion:

    Not a SINGLE. NOT 1 thing that is not continuously popping up in other threads.

    OP - if you want to contribute to the development, then i think you should hangout in the offical forums instead.

    And be PTR tester(for the sake of testing it, unlike tons of retards who are just bored).

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