PvP Restructure next Expansion

[Tyrean]

1.) New 40 Man PvP battleground created with many side objectives
2.) Battelgrounds split into three categories, 10v10, 15v15, 40v40. There would be 4 in each one if you include ashran in 40 man category.
3.) You get a first time bonus for each category.
4.) 2v2 Arena limited to 2dps only, like skirmishes.
5.) 3v3 limited to 1 healer, 1 ranged, 1 melee dps.
6.) RBG limited to one spot for each class.


Thoughts? All easy changes that I think would go a long way to allowing people to choose what they want to do and fixing some of the problems that exist currently in both RBG and arena.

[Schattenlied]

I could get behind everything except

6.) RBG limited to one spot for each class

Queue times would be fucking absurd for some classes... Also, specs are a thing... You have one Ret paladin, so, now you're not allowed to have a Holy or Prot? You have a Balance Druid, so you're not allowed to have a Resto/Feral/Guardian?

No.

A more appropriate thing would be no doubles of the same spec. You can have multiple of the same class, but not more than 1 of each spec, make people locked into the spec they queued as. And make a mandatory min/max of healers per team at 2.


All that being said PvP is a train-wreck right now, for reasons none of this will fix... Balance is beyond fucked, and the PvP templates and talents don't do a damn thing to help, in some cases they make it worse.

[Tyrean]

If you limited RBG to one class per spot, it would actually open a lot of things up. You don't queue solo as RBG, you have to form a team. Instead of waiting around trying to get that second or third lock you would instead get someone else. RBG right now is very homogeneous as far as the meta is concerned, so you are effectively limiting RBG to a set roster of 5 or so classes. If you limited it to one of each class, you would still end up with a meta, it would just include 10 classes instead of 5.

[Thelxi]

I would love being able to queue for only 15 man bgs.

[Schattenlied]

If you limited RBG to one class per spot, it would actually open a lot of things up. You don't queue solo as RBG, you have to form a team. Instead of waiting around trying to get that second or third lock you would instead get someone else. RBG right now is very homogeneous as far as the meta is concerned, so you are effectively limiting RBG to a set roster of 5 or so classes. If you limited it to one of each class, you would still end up with a meta, it would just include 10 classes instead of 5.

And the only reason the class stacking happens right now is because of ONE SPEC on that class being overpowered, like afflock/balance druid stacking. If you limit to 1 spec, it doesn't matter.

[Tyrean]

I would love being able to queue for only 15 man bgs.

Some people would love to queue only 10 man as well. This would allow you to do what you want, give incentives to stepping out of your comfort zone while not forcing you into it.

I would wager that everyone here has 2 blacklist choices that is some combination of Strand, Isle, and AV.

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And the only reason the class stacking happens right now is because of ONE SPEC on that class being overpowered, like afflock/balance druid stacking. If you limit to 1 spec, it doesn't matter.

Actually, it is mostly double shadow, double lock, double mistweaver. Then you have a DH, probably a hunter (or two), and a rdruid. Sometimes instead of two hunters you have a rogue or boomkin, but meta is mostly as above.

Rogues, Shaman, DK, Paladin all get the shaft. Like to play WW, too bad. Like to play Holy priest, too bad.

Now you can argue that the meta above is actually not required and you just need 10 smart players that work together and follow directions(I would agree), but if you are a WW monk or an enhance shaman good luck trying to convince any group of that after the meta has been established.

Limit it to one class per slot and you effectively open it up to bringing the player instead of the class, the goal of every change blizzard has been making for the last 6 years.

[Schattenlied]

Some people would love to queue only 10 man as well. This would allow you to do what you want, give incentives to stepping out of your comfort zone while not forcing you into it.

I would wager that everyone here has 2 blacklist choices that is some combination of Strand, Isle, and AV.

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Actually, it is mostly double shadow, double lock, double mistweaver. Then you have a DH, probably a hunter (or two), and a rdruid. Sometimes instead of two hunters you have a rogue or boomkin, but meta is mostly as above.

And 1 per spec would break that meta well enough.

Limit it to one class per slot and you effectively open it up to bringing the player instead of the class

Which they said on one of the livestream Q&As that they feel they went too far with that already.

Bring the player not the class is fine, to an extent, there should still be SOME bring the class (I'd like about as much "bring the class" and "bring the player" as we had in WotLK, that felt like a good balance between the two), 1 per spec is more than enough to break the meta

[primalmatter]

I can't see them doing any major changes at all to pvp. At this point ranked seems to have fewer people in it then pet battlers...

[Deleted]

Huge opponent of these:

4.) 2v2 Arena limited to 2dps only, like skirmishes.
5.) 3v3 limited to 1 healer, 1 ranged, 1 melee dps.
6.) RBG limited to one spot for each class.

Just keep doing small changes like they are doing now to achieve a greater balance.
The focus should be on giving classes more abilities to counter and play around their oponents to raise the skillcap across the board. Using your abilities and mechanics in creative and proactive manners to grant an edge is healthy gameplay.

You're creating more problems through solutions like these suggested. I personally play a warlock at 2300 rating in 2's for fun. How do you think a Warlock would fair in 2v2 double dps arena settings? The only things you'd see would be Mages, Rogues, Windwalkers, Prot Palas and Ele shamans.

[Terahertz]

What's with people's hard on for eliminating dps+healer comps in 2s? The only reason why it's often mind numbing to play against is because the pace of the game is whack. Go back to wrath/cata combat pace and double dps is viable again.

Double DPS also hardly takes any more skill than dps+healer does.

[Kagthul]

Double DPS also hardly takes any more skill than dps+healer does.

arguably, substanitally less.

Lock one guy down in CC, go mongo-ham, win.

[Deleted]

I like your 2v2 for dps only plan.

[shrunken]

Double DPS also hardly takes any more skill than dps+healer does.

this was when i laughed. good thread, should format it as a knock knock joke next time.

[TheVaryag]

1.) New 40 Man PvP battleground created with many side objectives
2.) Battelgrounds split into three categories, 10v10, 15v15, 40v40. There would be 4 in each one if you include ashran in 40 man category.
3.) You get a first time bonus for each category.
4.) 2v2 Arena limited to 2dps only, like skirmishes.
5.) 3v3 limited to 1 healer, 1 ranged, 1 melee dps.
6.) RBG limited to one spot for each class.


Thoughts? All easy changes that I think would go a long way to allowing people to choose what they want to do and fixing some of the problems that exist currently in both RBG and arena.

1. With today's low wow population? Hell no, maybe In Vanilla/TBC/Wrath that'd work, like Alterac Valley did, but not anymore.
2. Same thing as I mentioned above, low wow population and not everyone does PvP
3. If you mean Titanforged whateverforged, that has to stop, It's useless grindy drivel only adding another RNG element we don't need.
4. Not bad idea.
5. I like that, honest good idea.
6. Further explenation needed, what do you mean?

I'd also add my own things, and more Important than anything written above by me or the poster:

a. Return of high end guaranteed pvp gear sets, that actually are high end and not weaker than your average PvE gear piece you get from kicking nuts around or jumping on wine In world quests.
b. Revamping the honor talents or removing them entirely, not a good Idea and half of them are just... boring or OP.
c. Nerfing Demon Hunters, but that should be automatic, Death Knights and Monks got nerfed the expansion after and their PvP effectiveness was lesser.
d. Warlords PvP gear scaling. Through all the PvP expansions Warlords had a good Idea by scaling PvP gear upward If you're PvPing, and making them useless In PvE unless you're doing a heroic perhaps, and even then It's not that optimal.
e. This Is edited after the fact, I remembered a good point: Stop with the Outdoor PvPing, those world quests out there giving you a free pvp mount? Fucking hilarious Blizzard. Any random sod can just go In there, kill a bunch of REGULAR mobs, not even players, complete It all and get a PvP prestigious mount with no effort whatsoever, and even If so only the hardcore tryhard PvPers are killing eachother, the rest are just like "Sup?" as they pass eachother by killing nagas or riding animals. And your pvping specific stats are gone outdoors, so It's unbalanced as fudge. And even worse, you can just do all of that and get the mount, by doing your Class Order Hall "Complete a quest every 18 hours" thingie, It's hilariously bad. My main Issue is outdoor pvping Is useless, there's no pvping there whatsoever, and If there is It's unbalanced and not Interesting, and people getting pvp mounts they'd never get If they never PvPed. Well too bad, they bave to EARN THEIR PVP MOUNTS... hint is In the origin of the mounts, PvP.

In addition to point d, If you have say 925 as the highest ilevel which Is the highest right now In Legion, say our PvP gear defaults to 810-820, good enough for heroics but not much else. And It scales up to 925 or even a bit higher making It effective only In PvP for the scaling, as In, your gear scales upwards ONLY when you're engaged In combat. That was good, because If I liked anything It's knowing I can get the Conquest gear, pimp It out, get enchantments and everything and dont' have to worry about being undergeared, only underskilled and that's entirely up to you, how you handle your class and work with your friends to be the best PvPers out there.

[Kazuchika]

1)Fire Brian Holinka

If you never get past one who cares what else you wanted to do. It ain't happenin.

[Rankstar]

I miss the glory days of cata being a rogue decked out in full heroic DS gear and just straight up murdering people... i worked hard for that gear advantage. it feels pretty average when my 918ilvl DH and 912 rogue hit like wet noodles outside of cds :-(

[GodEmperor]

3v3 limited to 1 healer, 1 ranged, 1 melee dps.

Been suggesting it for a while. Ranged/Melee/Healer is just more fun to watch and involves a bit more brainpower than mongo double melee and hide near pillars double caster comps. But many are afraid it will reduce arena participation even more which is understandable.

I do not like limiting double dps 2s that makes it even dumber than it is now. Only skilled double dps 2s comp is Rogue/Mage and you can still play them to 2.2k if you're godly. The rest of the shit like DH/BM Hunter are absolutely retarded.

[Deleted]

1)Fire Brian Holinka

Next stop would be to completely outsource the pvp development to a studio that actually has a good record with multiplayer pvp balance.

[ComputerNerd]

We have battlegrounds with objectives.
If they don't contribute to your damage meters, players aren't interested.
The problem there is general ganking and other activity contributing little to nothing to the end result is too rewarding.

Putting restrictions isn't equal to "letting people do what they want".
That is instead perhaps removing certain situations counter to a fair experience.

Though I agree the simplistic class balancing is rather narrow-minded as specs can significantly change the role one plays, even amongst those with more than 1 dps spec.

Next stop would be to completely outsource the pvp development to a studio that actually has a good record with multiplayer pvp balance.

Class based PvP isn't balanced.
There are just too many options, between the classes in numbers alone.
Then if you consider specs, talents, etc.

Anyone who thinks that can be balanced is either willfully ignorant to make an argument, or simply ignorant.

[Deleted]

Class based PvP isn't balanced.
There are just too many options, between the classes in numbers alone.
Then if you consider specs, talents, etc.

Anyone who thinks that can be balanced is either willfully ignorant to make an argument, or simply ignorant.

Not asking for perfect balance, I like some difference between classes.

Blizzard however has no grip on balance whatsoever right now.
No one know for sure if it's because they aren't good at it or that they simply don't care, but the pvp activity is so low right now that I just want a capable team to run the pvp side of things for once.