Should WF/TF have a cap?

[psiko74]

Should WF and TF have a cap? For example WF would be 5 ilvl and TF would be 10ilvl and make it more rare depending on what difficulty you are doing. LFR would have the lowest chance while mythic would have a higher chance.

NH Raid
Base/WF/TF
LFR 875/880/885
N 885/890/900
H 900/905/915
M 915/920/925

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I don't really care what gear other people have, so no.

[Deleted]

Should WF and TF have a cap? For example WF would be 5 ilvl and TF would be 10ilvl and make it more rare depending on what difficulty you are doing. LFR would have the lowest chance while mythic would have a higher chance.

WF and TF already has a cap. WF is anything up to +10 of the base itemlevel, after that it's called TF. And TF is capped at max itemlevel for whatever is current content.

[Accendor]

Should WF and TF have a cap? For example WF would be 5 ilvl and TF would be 10ilvl and make it more rare depending on what difficulty you are doing. LFR would have the lowest chance while mythic would have a higher chance.

NH Raid
Base/WF/TF
LFR 875/880/885
N 885/890/900
H 900/905/915
M 915/920/925

You did clearly not understand what the reason was for introducing TF in the first place.

[Eazy]

You did clearly not understand what the reason was for introducing TF in the first place.

He's not asking if the reason why they introduced TF and WF was okay, he's asking if it should have cap.

I agree with him. WF - 5 ilvl increase, TF - 10 ilvl increase.
Whenever I see someone with 925 ilvl LFR gear I'm shaking my head.

[psiko74]

It will also give more incentive to do harder content.

[Serissa]

There IS cap - 925. And LFR IS already lowest because of lowest base ilvl. And Mythic IS highest because of highest base ilvl.

[Deleted]

It will also give more incentive to do harder content.

There's an inherent incentive in the current system already. Higher base itemlevel makes proccing max itemlevel easier. It is possible for EN LFR gear to proc 925, but it is far more likely to happen with NH Mythic gear.

[Frolk]

It will also give more incentive to do harder content.

Yes, its wrong that 1person can do HC guldan and get better loot than someone who does mythic guldan

Want better/best loot? Do harder/hardest content.

[Deleted]

While the problem of higher-than-mythic LFR items is basically non-existant (it's just far too rare), it IS a problem for normal and heroic.

I would fully support a limit of the next higher difficulty if the proc rate was significantly reduced.

The amount of people running around in average 910 gear while never having set a foot into mythic raids or challengingly high levels of m+ is staggering.

The purpose of WF/TF was initially sold as "keep farming content attractive". Well you can achieve that while limiting TF to a maximum of the base level of the next difficulty (WF is always +5 or +10 anyway, so TF would be the "You have won the lottery and got an item from the next higher difficulty")

NH Raid
Base/max TF
LFR 865/880
N 880/890
H 890/905
M 905/925 (this one is larger because there is no higher difficulty level).

Proc rate on TF should be <1%. Currently I get a TF item every 20 or 30 looted items, that's just ridiculous...

[psiko74]

There's an inherent incentive in the current system already. Higher base itemlevel makes proccing max itemlevel easier. It is possible for EN LFR gear to proc 925, but it is far more likely to happen with NH Mythic gear.

right, but atleast with my solution people will have to run mythic if they want the best gear. right now, why struggle through mythic when I can just do heroic which is 100x easier. I am still currently using 2x 925 normal pieces i got like 5 months ago. That isnt how it should work.

[Accendor]

He's not asking if the reason why they introduced TF and WF was okay, he's asking if it should have cap.

I agree with him. WF - 5 ilvl increase, TF - 10 ilvl increase.
Whenever I see someone with 925 ilvl LFR gear I'm shaking my head.

So you also do not understand it. If there is a cap, the whole feature is useless and can be removed.
Which obv should not be done.

- - - Updated - - -

right, but atleast with my solution people will have to run mythic if they want the best gear. right now, why struggle through mythic when I can just do heroic which is 100x easier. I am still currently using 2x 925 normal pieces i got like 5 months ago. That isnt how it should work.

Because the change in heroic is much, much smaller to get that gear piece than in mythic.
If tf would cap below mythic there simply would be no reason to do heroic it all.

[Raelbo]

He's not asking if the reason why they introduced TF and WF was okay, he's asking if it should have cap.

Except that the two are inextricably linked. In other words, the need being addressed by TF/WF kind of requires that the cap can go to 925

Whenever I see someone with 925 ilvl LFR gear I'm shaking my head.

Why? It's so incredibly rare that it really doesn't affect much at all. As a heroic level raider I have no LFR gear that has rolled high enough to displace a Heroic piece, and only 1 normal piece that has managed to do so. I also cannot recall ever seeing an actual piece of 925 gear dropping in LFR in any runs I have been in.

So while I am sure it does happen, it doesn't make a meaningful impact on the game. It affects a very small percentage of players, and is almost always a single piece of gear.

[Eazy]

Why? It's so incredibly rare that it really doesn't affect much at all. As a heroic level raider I have no LFR gear that has rolled high enough to displace a Heroic piece, and only 1 normal piece that has managed to do so. I also cannot recall ever seeing an actual piece of 925 gear dropping in LFR in any runs I have been in.

So while I am sure it does happen, it doesn't make a meaningful impact on the game. It affects a very small percentage of players, and is almost always a single piece of gear.

If it's not that big deal then why do we still have it?

[Raelbo]

It will also give more incentive to do harder content.

False. I would argue that the opposite is true. Having better gear makes harder content more accessible.

- - - Updated - - -

If it's not that big deal then why do we still have it?

Because getting a gear upgrade is always a nice bonus, even if it's not game-breaking.

[Niwes]

what ppl and blizzard dont realize most of the time, is that the system is countering itself:

the system is designed with "oh, i didnt killed that lower/older bosses for nothing. i am able to get an update there too." in mind. this means it supports your motivation when kill older/lower bosses. but at the same time it takes the motivation to kill actual bosses on your chosen difficulty level on a weekly base. the first motivation effectively is working against the second motivation. but the second one is way more important.

when you get some 900+ items in normal mode (what HC raiders do the first few weeks of a tier, to fill gaps and learn fights), and then go heroic mode, roll on the other slots and get your other 890-900 items there, you run HC 2-3 months with nearly no sense of gear progression, bc all your item drops for that slots with normal WF/TF gear are useless. this scenario ofc is based on RNG (and showed here a little bit exaggerated to spot the fact). but i saw that WAY too often. it seems to be relatively standard. WF/TF effectivelly lower the motivation and gear progression in higher difficulties aka your weekly stuff. and this is a very bad side effect.

or in short:

- have something to earn in lower difficulty level? good.
- see most of the time no upgrades in your daily/weekly difficulty level? not so good...

THIS system as it is now, is DEFINETELLY not the answer. it do more harm than it is worth.

[Nathanyel]

Yes, its wrong that 1person can do HC guldan and get better loot than someone who does mythic guldan

Can.

What if the first person kills HC Gul'dan and gets loot, and the second person kills My Gul'dan and gets no loot?
Similar chances, and the first person still has better gear than the second.

[Raelbo]

when you get some 900+ items in normal mode (what HC raiders do the first few weeks of a tier, to fill gaps and learn fights), and then go heroic mode, roll on the other slots and get your other 890-900 items there, you run HC 2-3 months with no sense of gear progression bc all your item drops for that slots with normal WF/TF gear are useless.

or in short:

- have something to earn in lower difficulty level? good.
- see most of the time in your daily difficulty level no upgrades? not so good...

THIS system as it is now, is DEFINETELLY not the answer. it do more harm than it is worth.

I don't think your scenario plays out in practice. Our guild did quite a bit of normal before progressing to Heroic. Towards the end we were getting maybe 2-3 gear upgrades across the entire raid for a complete normal clear, but as soon as we hit heroic, we all started getting numerous upgrades.

Also, any Heroic WF/TF gear is going to more than likely completely trounce normal WF/TF gear.

Sure, each member of the group might end up winning a handful of regular heroic items over the course of a few months that are useless because of a normal or LFR drop, but for the vast majority of gear slots, even the regular heroic gear is going to be superior.

[Pijips]

I don't really care what gear other people have, so no.

It's not about other people's gear. It's to provide incentive to push to higher difficulties. If you can get Mythic raid gear without killing one Mythic boss, why bother?

[Deleted]

Warforged should be 5
Titanforged should be 10

None of this having to wear my normal gear because it procced 40 ilvls, whilst my mythic gear gets disenchanted because it didn't, bollucks.