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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by WaffleCouch View Post
    If they still plan to go through with only 10 healing spheres per engagement, it makes the recently buffed Gift of The Mists to be completely useless.
    Oh boy that is some miss reading.
    Its 10 spheres from a single attack. not per fight.

    It is a number you cannot reach outside the most edge of edge cases.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SupBrah View Post
    Lies. Bear is a complete OP faceroll this expac. To the point where raids were solo-tanking mythic Gul'dan with bears

    To be a great brewmaster takes at least some effort, while you almost just drool on the keyboard and be a great bear.
    Newsflash, you can solo tank Gul'dan as a BRM as well, is not bear exclusive.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Envar View Post
    At least for brewmasters that is simply wrong. There isn't a single reason to ever run blackout combo with empowered tiger palms outside of DPS. And in comparison to high tolerance it's a significant loss of survivability. Not saying you can't cheese with boc and empowered brews, but 99% of the time that's not the reason this talent is taken.
    Nobody needs HT to survive anything in M Nighthold outside of literally trying to cheese. It is a worthless talent for 99% of situations in the game. If you're taking it over BoC and not trying to cheese something you're just trying to be a snowflake and playing your character terribly.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Oh boy that is some miss reading.
    Its 10 spheres from a single attack. not per fight.

    It is a number you cannot reach outside the most edge of edge cases.

    You're absolutely correct.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Nobody needs HT to survive anything in M Nighthold outside of literally trying to cheese. It is a worthless talent for 99% of situations in the game. If you're taking it over BoC and not trying to cheese something you're just trying to be a snowflake and playing your character terribly.
    My standard tactic - solo Aluriel (2nd tank on souls, 3rd soul on Dave), solo Botanist P3 (no dispel at all), solo tank Etraeus, solo Guldan (all bonds, all 2nd phase and all soul cleaves at 3rd phase w/o tank swap at all). I doubt that this can be done successfully w/o HT. This talent has its niche, no need to discard it completely.
    Last edited by porubezhnik; 2017-06-05 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by WaffleCouch View Post
    You have any logs to post for "Retarded aoe"?

    10/10M Monk here, in the AOE situations. I'de argue BRM would out dps a guardian druid, at least I do. In situations like fortified/High M+ where thrash can stack up to 5 ( assuming Luffa Wrappings and Elize's Everlasting Encasement ) would be debatable. I also play Guardian .
    you are not outdpsing a good bear with those legendaries and 3 thrash relics on aoe with incarn

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by porubezhnik View Post
    My standard tactic - solo Aluriel (2nd tank on souls, 3rd soul on Dave), solo Botanist P3 (no dispel at all), solo tank Etraeus, solo Guldan (all bonds, all 2nd phase and all soul cleaves at 3rd phase w/o tank swap at all). I doubt that this can be done successfully w/o HT. This talent has its niche, no need to discard it completely.
    All of that can be done with BoC quite easily. In case of Aluriel BoC is probably even better as you can just pause the annihilate and purify with great efficiency. Also works for illidan Soulsever quite well too so you won't even lose any health while being unhealable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by WaffleCouch View Post
    You have any logs to post for "Retarded aoe"?

    10/10M Monk here, in the AOE situations. I'de argue BRM would out dps a guardian druid, at least I do. In situations like fortified/High M+ where thrash can stack up to 5 ( assuming Luffa Wrappings and Elize's Everlasting Encasement ) would be debatable. I also play Guardian .
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...nks&dataset=90

    I'm not linking that to look at overall, but so you can look at each bosses easier. This is also just looking at sustained and ignoring the fact that Bears completely destroy any kind of cleave or AoE with Incarn, which contribute to certain aspects of the fight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverer View Post
    you are not outdpsing a good bear with those legendaries and 3 thrash relics on aoe with incarn
    basically this

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Newsflash, you can solo tank Gul'dan as a BRM as well, is not bear exclusive.
    I'd actually argue bears and BRM work best together. Have bears soak early stuff so BRM can build Ironskin to stupid time and then take over

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    I'd actually argue bears and BRM work best together. Have bears soak early stuff so BRM can build Ironskin to stupid time and then take over
    Yeah that works too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverer View Post
    you are not outdpsing a good bear with those legendaries and 3 thrash relics on aoe with incarn
    Not with incarnation, but incarnation is a 3m cd and noone in their right mind would pick it in a raid setting, hardly representative of overall comparison.

    You have to also keep in mind that in order to actually do comparable aoe dps, bears NEEDS to have 3xThrash relics, if you decide to go pick any other relic options you can forget about it. Bear dps without thrash relics is pretty much bottom of all tanks.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Bear dps without thrash relics is pretty much bottom of all tanks.
    And Brewmaster single target dps without facepalm relics isn't setting the world on fire.
    VDH needs fiery demise relics to stay competitive.

    Should we go on? Literally every tank loses significant dps without the proper relics.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    Yeah that works too.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not with incarnation, but incarnation is a 3m cd and noone in their right mind would pick it in a raid setting, hardly representative of overall comparison.

    You have to also keep in mind that in order to actually do comparable aoe dps, bears NEEDS to have 3xThrash relics, if you decide to go pick any other relic options you can forget about it. Bear dps without thrash relics is pretty much bottom of all tanks.
    Every bear with luffas is playing incarn atm even on ST fights. As tech said you could say the same about tiger palm relics for monks. If you play guardian without thrash relics you are just doing it wrong.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    All of that can be done with BoC quite easily. In case of Aluriel BoC is probably even better as you can just pause the annihilate and purify with great efficiency. Also works for illidan Soulsever quite well too so you won't even lose any health while being unhealable.
    Have a belt, so Aluriel with HT just heal all damage that I take. Also, for Illidan I usually have 1-2 min of ISB so can purify whenever I want. Sure, this can be done with BoC, but I'll prefer safer playstyle (on progression I had braindead 2nd tank so...). Just to make it clear - I like BoC and prefer it over HT for sure, but sometimes there is no room for it.

  13. #53
    800k was overall. He does like 500k ST but when a trash pack comes his dps goes above 2M at like 4-5 enemies. For comparison my 915Ilvl WW did 1m dps overall.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by porubezhnik View Post
    Have a belt, so Aluriel with HT just heal all damage that I take. Also, for Illidan I usually have 1-2 min of ISB so can purify whenever I want. Sure, this can be done with BoC, but I'll prefer safer playstyle (on progression I had braindead 2nd tank so...). Just to make it clear - I like BoC and prefer it over HT for sure, but sometimes there is no room for it.
    Did we have the same Co-Tank? Because, mine is braindead too.

    ~ All paths lead to the end, but you have to choose if you attack or defend ~

  15. #55

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Illenia View Post
    800k was overall. He does like 500k ST but when a trash pack comes his dps goes above 2M at like 4-5 enemies. For comparison my 915Ilvl WW did 1m dps overall.
    For overall dmg in m+ there isn't even any competition between guardian and monks from what ive seen by playing both, guardian wins hands down. Im usually beating most of my dpsers in overall (1.2m overall in DHT+15) through just pulling big when incarn is up and enjoying the massive dps. I do however feel like monk got slightly stronger single target if played correctly.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    I do however feel like monk got slightly stronger single target if played correctly.
    Im afraid High tolerance will be mandatory because of 7.2.5 nerfs. W/o blackout combat we are just shit. Meanwhile vengeance got +15% on everything and a lot of buffs. Ill probably change my main.

  18. #58
    hmm, after reading patch notes (didn't follow it anymore the last weeks because I switch to dps), I would say this is overall a nice buff for ToS and Monk should be strongest tank now. Hot Blooded change hurts a bit on magic spikes, but I heard they are not that often in ToS as they were in NH, so whatever...
    Mastery now strongest stat?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Grobovshik View Post
    Im afraid High tolerance will be mandatory because of 7.2.5 nerfs. W/o blackout combat we are just shit. Meanwhile vengeance got +15% on everything and a lot of buffs. Ill probably change my main.
    What I looked DH got buffs to it's damage. T19 4pc will make it quite good for Tomb because of the AA damage abundance. But I guess many will do the mistake of ditching it for ilvl/new set and find themselves eating dirt when DS drops. Being that reliant on old set is quite disturbing.

    We lost 10% stagger if you ditch set (hint: you don't have to if surviving is your problem). So we are only 4x better than everybody else for burst damage instead of 5x. Getting bursted down won't happen even if relative increase in direct damage taken seems high. Doubling almost nothing is still almost nothing. It only changes how low hp% we can stay safely. And T20 gives you opportunity to control that quite well.

    Meanwhile we have ~70% avoidance against bosses thanks to Elusive Brawler ability procs. And the potential is higher if bosses cast stuff between attacks. Our overall damage taken (which has been our only weakness) goes down drastically.

    We are going to be great for tomb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    What I looked DH got buffs to it's damage. T19 4pc will make it quite good for Tomb because of the AA damage abundance. But I guess many will do the mistake of ditching it for ilvl/new set and find themselves eating dirt when DS drops. Being that reliant on old set is quite disturbing.

    We lost 10% stagger if you ditch set (hint: you don't have to if surviving is your problem). So we are only 4x better than everybody else for burst damage instead of 5x. Getting bursted down won't happen even if relative increase in direct damage taken seems high. Doubling almost nothing is still almost nothing. It only changes how low hp% we can stay safely. And T20 gives you opportunity to control that quite well.

    Meanwhile we have ~70% avoidance against bosses thanks to Elusive Brawler ability procs. And the potential is higher if bosses cast stuff between attacks. Our overall damage taken (which has been our only weakness) goes down drastically.

    We are going to be great for tomb.
    i cant wait til the people that think monks will be bad see that they arent and come back. always fun to watch people yoyo.

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