Help Frost Mage Sim stats

[Deleted]

Hey guys, i'm a returning mage. I played fire for EN and early ToV before switching on another char. I came back 2 days ago and my guild helped me get some gear to catch up with their ilvl.

After a TON of Sim (i had a lot of outdated gear like 835 ring with 2k+ crit) I managed to sort everything out. However i'm quite perplexed about my stats weight !

I have something like 25% CRIT, 15% HASTE, 45% MASTERY (not 100% sure cuz armory not updated at the moment but it's really close)

I read that we have to get 33% crit then haste. However Simcraft tells me Haste > Int > Vers > Crit > Mastery


I tried with different gear which gave me less DPS on simcraft but 2-3% more Haste but the stats weight never changes.

Hope you can help.

Thanks

[Sugarpixie]

Hey guys, i'm a returning mage. I played fire for EN and early ToV before switching on another char. I came back 2 days ago and my guild helped me get some gear to catch up with their ilvl.

After a TON of Sim (i had a lot of outdated gear like 835 ring with 2k+ crit) I managed to sort everything out. However i'm quite perplexed about my stats weight !

I have something like 25% CRIT, 15% HASTE, 45% MASTERY (not 100% sure cuz armory not updated at the moment but it's really close)

I read that we have to get 33% crit then haste. However Simcraft tells me Haste > Int > Vers > Crit > Mastery


I tried with different gear which gave me less DPS on simcraft but 2-3% more Haste but the stats weight never changes.

Hope you can help.

Thanks

From the thermal void frost mage guide on Altered Time, the stats section: '- Crit is very good until 30-33%. This is because at 33.34% most frost spells vs a frozen target will have 100% crit. This is called the shatter cap. I would avoid going all-out crit just to get to this cap. Try and keep your haste and crit balanced until you get close.'

I'm assuming your SimC is just detecting the same thing, that gradually rising and balancing is better than full-out crit.

[Makkish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats <-- Plug and Play

[Sugarpixie]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats <-- Plug and Play

Handy, I use a locally run Simulationcraft myself, or beotorch.com occasionally. However, this doesn't answer the OP's question, he asked for the reasoning behind the sim results he was given, not how to run them. He clearly states he's run tons of sims already.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, i'm a returning mage. I played fire for EN and early ToV before switching on another char. I came back 2 days ago and my guild helped me get some gear to catch up with their ilvl.

After a TON of Sim (i had a lot of outdated gear like 835 ring with 2k+ crit) I managed to sort everything out. However i'm quite perplexed about my stats weight !

I have something like 25% CRIT, 15% HASTE, 45% MASTERY (not 100% sure cuz armory not updated at the moment but it's really close)

I read that we have to get 33% crit then haste. However Simcraft tells me Haste > Int > Vers > Crit > Mastery


I tried with different gear which gave me less DPS on simcraft but 2-3% more Haste but the stats weight never changes.

Hope you can help.

Thanks

Yes, that haste is far to low. Generally speaking I end up around 30-33 % crit and 28-30% haste. The thing is, this shattercap is often misinterpreted. The reason is until shattercap 33.3% stat prio looks like:

Int > crit => haste > versatility > mastery

After getting shattercapped the value of crit plummets even below mastery so it looks more like this:

Int > haste > versatility > mastery = crit

This just means everything above the cap is worthless but the cap is not something you should sacrifice everything for (like 20 ilvls or big amounts of haste). Mind you, that everything could be going out of the window when 7.2.5. Hits. Rationale:

TV talents is nerfed alongside with double IL. This alongside with flurry and other spell travel speed adaptions could result in a glacialspike meta this tyr (goodbye legendary bis gloves) This means mastery will see a rise in value. I have tried swimming on PTR but I find it difficult to come up with a clear answer how this will look in 7.2.5. I hope TV built will remain at least on par with GS.

Edit: sacrifice mastery for haste/crit even if it means 15-20 ilvls unless it breaks 2 piece. (4 piece can be sacrificed)

[skitzin]

It comes down to how well you understand the stat weights and how SimC generates them. In essence, they are not fixed DPS gains but rather fluctuating DPS gains based on the current stats you have.

Thus SimC stat weights are relative DPS gains for the next point only -- if you have 0 of a secondary it may weigh that higher as the relative increase of adding that next would be better.

The guides give general guidelines which are based on a lot of simulations (think millions and millions of iterations all up) that provide the theory crafters and guide writers with a generalized view of how the stats trend in relation to each other. However, in practice these values of stats will fluctuate depending on how much of another stat and that stat you have. Since for frost haste and crit have been shown to have close in value then the more you have of haste the more valuable crit will become and vice versa. The fact that once crit reaches a set value it loses any further benefit means that the stat value for crit will decrease the closer you get that particular point as well.

[Deleted]

It comes down to how well you understand the stat weights and how SimC generates them. In essence, they are not fixed DPS gains but rather fluctuating DPS gains based on the current stats you have.

Thus SimC stat weights are relative DPS gains for the next point only -- if you have 0 of a secondary it may weigh that higher as the relative increase of adding that next would be better.

The guides give general guidelines which are based on a lot of simulations (think millions and millions of iterations all up) that provide the theory crafters and guide writers with a generalized view of how the stats trend in relation to each other. However, in practice these values of stats will fluctuate depending on how much of another stat and that stat you have. Since for frost haste and crit have been shown to have close in value then the more you have of haste the more valuable crit will become and vice versa. The fact that once crit reaches a set value it loses any further benefit means that the stat value for crit will decrease the closer you get that particular point as well.

Totally correct. To make it even worse if you want to use it properly one should use fixed points (e.g. 100m dmg or 60 seconds) with different situations (not just the ST patchwork fight) and different gear combo's. To see the amount of effort I takes just look at some of the altered time sims, simming ST fights, 2-3-4 targets, cleave fights, council fights with different legendary combo's thus resulting in different stat weighs :-)... so much fun as a starting mage!

[skitzin]

To further add to the discussion I would quote Archimtiros from his 7.2.5 FAQ for Fury Warriors:

"This is why "sim your own stat weights to find out which is best for you" is horrible advice - Stat weights only show a snapshot in time, and may not project far enough ahead to give an accurate assessment of long-term growth, nor do they account for trading one stat for another."

This is further reason why the guides often give you a generalized guide of stats since the character specific values might not provide you with an accurate picture of how the stats improve your DPS since if you get unlucky to get a snap shot of when your stats weights are shifting against the general trend then you might act in a manner that actually hurts your dps longterm.