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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'll agree with placements, but I've been tracking my per-game rank gains this season because I wanted some more-clear data, and there's a really clear correlation between the rank I gain/lose, my current rank, and my personal performance. If I have what i consider a shitty game for me, my rank gains are less or my losses are greater. As my personal rank has increased, my rank gains have dropped and my rank losses have increased.

    I'm more interested in actual data than what people "feel", which is a big part of why I decided to start tracking and recording this stuff.
    Sure, but none of that stuff is going to be entirely in your hands in the first place. There are so many variables in play, not to mention the simple fact that the goal of each match is NOT "Get the most kills" or "Stay alive the longest" but to complete the objective at hand.

    I know we've had this debate before, but it just seems like complete nonsense to me to judge a player on anything other than winning or losing. Everything else just comes off as casual feel-good bullshit about how, "Your personal contribution matters! Never mind that it already 'matters' in the sense that if you're REALLY contributing then you'll win! But this way it makes it feel like your 'stupid team' isn't holding you back as much!"

    Although I suppose that in the end any pug-based "competitive" mode is really just casual shit in the first place, so eh.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kajimo View Post
    I don't play ranked in overwatch, but I've always wondered: how can you tell the difference between an intentional griefer and someone who just isn't very good?
    The intentional griefer is usually more than happy to let you know their intentions.

    You know, to rub it in.

  3. #23
    dude just block the griefers. I block them in-match if I have to. You can even rally the other players to do the same and press on to win
    Last edited by topitopi; 2017-06-10 at 06:50 PM. Reason: word choice

  4. #24
    Usually if I join a game with a group of people who are particularly angry that i picked a particular hero they want or dont like how I fit into the team I usually accommodate and swap into the role / hero they dont then rage / troll / grief, challenging them is just fueling the fire. I'm climbing comfortable and that might be part of the reason.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Except that's the opposite of what ranked is suppose to do.

    You're suppose to be grouped up with people of similar skill, not "random".
    It did put them with similar ranked players, but it also put him with randomly behaving players of which some are griefers.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  6. #26
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I know we've had this debate before, but it just seems like complete nonsense to me to judge a player on anything other than winning or losing. Everything else just comes off as casual feel-good bullshit about how, "Your personal contribution matters! Never mind that it already 'matters' in the sense that if you're REALLY contributing then you'll win! But this way it makes it feel like your 'stupid team' isn't holding you back as much!"

    Although I suppose that in the end any pug-based "competitive" mode is really just casual shit in the first place, so eh.
    The problem is, this argument means that if 5 of your team play exceptionally well and you pull off a win despite #6 griefing the team or AFKing back at spawn, then the griefer deserves just as much rank gain as the rest of you.

    The current system is meant to address that somewhat, and I think it's a good concept, even if we might waffle on exactly HOW it should do so.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kajimo View Post
    I don't play ranked in overwatch, but I've always wondered: how can you tell the difference between an intentional griefer and someone who just isn't very good?
    My experience is that most people can't. I encounter players all the time who think anyone who is not very skilled mechanically or is ignorant of comp/strategy or insists on playing certain less useful heroes as griefing. In most instances, it seems clear the people they are complaining about are at least trying hard and just aren't very good. Worst case, they are people who are too selfish to swap off the specific heroes they want to play even if that hero is not working. Their intention is just to play what they want and win despite of that and often they are too oblivious to realise it's probably not going to happen. I'm not saying those people are awesome or that I want them on my team, but they're not trying to be malicious. They are out there shooting at the enemy, so it's obvious they are still trying to play the game.

    Genuine griefers are usually pretty easy to spot. They will usually give themselves away in chat somehow by announcing they are throwing, or letting the other team know in game chat what your team is planning/doing. I've seen them ride over the enemy side and just dick around with emotes and voice lines instead of playing, or do something else obvious like play on the elevator or jump off the world repeatedly. I've also had two matches now where a small group of them instalocked tanks/healers and then just fucked around on the map by themselves away from the rest of their team and their objective (the latter I think were intentionally trying to derank). All these things are super blatant.
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  8. #28
    No, you cant ban people for not playing like an esport professional.

    Sorry to break it to you.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    No, you cant ban people for not playing like an esport professional.

    Sorry to break it to you.
    You can block anyone you want for any reason you want and you won't draw up with them again.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  10. #30
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    My experience is that most people can't. I encounter players all the time who think anyone who is not very skilled mechanically or is ignorant of comp/strategy or insists on playing certain less useful heroes as griefing. In most instances, it seems clear the people they are complaining about are at least trying hard and just aren't very good. Worst case, they are people who are too selfish to swap off the specific heroes they want to play even if that hero is not working. Their intention is just to play what they want and win despite of that and often they are too oblivious to realise it's probably not going to happen. I'm not saying those people are awesome or that I want them on my team, but they're not trying to be malicious. They are out there shooting at the enemy, so it's obvious they are still trying to play the game.

    Genuine griefers are usually pretty easy to spot. They will usually give themselves away in chat somehow by announcing they are throwing, or letting the other team know in game chat what your team is planning/doing. I've seen them ride over the enemy side and just dick around with emotes and voice lines instead of playing, or do something else obvious like play on the elevator or jump off the world repeatedly. I've also had two matches now where a small group of them instalocked tanks/healers and then just fucked around on the map by themselves away from the rest of their team and their objective (the latter I think were intentionally trying to derank). All these things are super blatant.
    Like, one of the few times I've seen an actual griefer, the guy was playing Torbjorn on Eichenwalde Attack. That wasn't why he was a griefer. He was a griefer because he continuously ran into the middle of the teamfight and would just stand there, not shooting, not placing turrets, just standing there, until he got killed. It was worse than just AFKing, because he was actively feeding the enemy team ult charge (I was on that enemy team, thankfully).

    Someone just not being very good isn't proof of "throwing" or "griefing". The real stuff is SUPER obvious.

    And sure; it's bad, but the report system is there and should be used.

  11. #31
    I've had more games ruined by aimbotters than griefers, if we want to talk about people making the game less than fun.

  12. #32
    Easy way to fix the problem, separate it into a solo and team queue. Much less QQ in general then.

  13. #33
    In my 10 placement matches I had 4 griefers on the enemy team, 3 were soldiers falling to their death repeatedly and the 4th was Tracer onend of kings row who would come out of respawn to fall in the hole. Their team seemed oblivious about it and in the case of Tracer I mentioned it to the opposing team and they said, "Wait, wut?" And that caused so much discord on the opposing team they couldn't even get the first control point. Psychological warfare at its best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakushisai View Post
    Easy way to fix the problem, separate it into a solo and team queue. Much less QQ in general then.
    What happens if you have a 5 man team with no solos to fill the 6th? Do you tell a friend to bugger off so you can get a 2 man?would you consider it fun if you look forward to your night of gaming with friends just to get the boot because your 6th couldn't make it for RL reasons?
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2017-06-10 at 08:59 PM.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post



    What happens if you have a 5 man team with no solos to fill the 6th? Do you tell a friend to bugger off so you can get a 2 man?would you consider it fun if you look forward to your night of gaming with friends just to get the boot because your 6th couldn't make it for RL reasons?
    Takes me back to my cs days when we would sit on irc looking for a 5th

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You can block anyone you want for any reason you want and you won't draw up with them again.

    Wrong, you cannot block someone from matchmaking.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dream View Post
    like every other game there is a griefer that ruins the game, gain 20 rating from win and lose 40 due to griefers

    does blizzard ever ban them??!???!?!? see the same players over and over in games and no bans???? this game is unplayable due to griefers
    Dude welcome to overwatch...
    This is the only reason why i do not play competitive.

  17. #37
    Pit Lord Amirila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    No, you cant ban people for not playing like an esport professional.

    Sorry to break it to you.
    Can ban an esport professional for griefing/trolling though

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kajimo View Post
    I don't play ranked in overwatch, but I've always wondered: how can you tell the difference between an intentional griefer and someone who just isn't very good?
    The people who aren't very good apologizes, the griefer goes "u mad bro? U MAD BRO?" when they place symmetra teleporter just outside spawn or when they block you off with meis icewall.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Amirila View Post
    Can ban an esport professional for griefing/trolling though
    Yeah, well Esport tournaments got very strict policies with that. Not just Overwatch. League is a good example, you are harshly and immediately punished for showing unsportsmanlike conduct.
    I like some banter now and then, but i understand why they got the rules. Grey borders beg to be crossed, and as such they just have a no tolerance policy.

    Maybe blizzard will commit resources to negative behavior in Overwatch, but so far it seems as that aint happening, blizzard support is a meme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Fun View Post
    The people who aren't very good apologizes, the griefer goes "u mad bro? U MAD BRO?" when they place symmetra teleporter just outside spawn or when they block you off with meis icewall.
    Its easy if you try make it black and white like that, between two extremes.
    The problem is: What about the middle ground?

    What about an attacking symmetra that tries their best? Some see it as trolling/griefing. The Symmetra however will see the teams hostile reaction as griefing.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by topitopi View Post
    dude just block the griefers. I block them in-match if I have to. You can even rally the other players to do the same and press on to win
    That doesn't help sadly. I still get grouped with people I've blocked

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