Mark of Ursol removed completely?

[Dracodraco]

Guardian is fine on a balance level. Gameplay-wise, effectively removing a button and thus decision making is select situations is bullshit.

They overreacted.

They changed it from "Press Mark of Ursol if magic damage, Ironfur if physical" into "Decide if you want physical reduction, or more damage through maul". I'd argue that's a much more entertaining choice than just hitting W/E button your current enemy does the most damage with.

Never said they were. Still sucks for solo players which is all I said, are you just trying to be a prick for some reason? Good God.

Doesn't suck for anyone because it won't affect you as a "solo player" anyway. There's no solo content where this has any sort of effect on you.

[Zoibert the Bear]

They changed it from "Press Mark of Ursol if magic damage, Ironfur if physical" into "Decide if you want physical reduction, or more damage through maul". I'd argue that's a much more entertaining choice than just hitting W/E button your current enemy does the most damage with.





Doesn't suck for anyone because it won't affect you as a "solo player" anyway. There's no solo content where this has any sort of effect on you.

You do not PvP do you. And you probably don't try to solo relevant group PvE content neither.

Oh! Sorry, you seem to play a hunter! OH OH OH, no no no no! Hahahaha, you're a good boy!

[Deleted]

They changed it from "Press Mark of Ursol if magic damage, Ironfur if physical" into "Decide if you want physical reduction, or more damage through maul". I'd argue that's a much more entertaining choice than just hitting W/E button your current enemy does the most damage with.

Haven't seen it from this point... actually pretty valid. I'm probably still too mad that they changed my actually pretty interesting ST cat weaving rotation into smash thrash, gain deepz, to consider whether or not the maul change might actually make for interesting gameplay.

Doesn't suck for anyone because it won't affect you as a "solo player" anyway. There's no solo content where this has any sort of effect on you.

Well, there is the mage tower scenario and soloing Iron Juggernaut mythic. Not sure if that is what he thinks off as solo content but it is the solo content where I used MoU.

[Mystikal]

Doesn't suck for anyone because it won't affect you as a "solo player" anyway. There's no solo content where this has any sort of effect on you.

The Guardian Mage Tower scenario could easily become borderline impossible without MoU, and that is categorically solo content.

[Exigent]

The Guardian Mage Tower scenario could easily become borderline impossible without MoU, and that is categorically solo content.

That's really the reason I worked on it this week.. just in case! That said, I suspect that 30+ item levels from Tomb gear will inevitably overcome this. Things will die so quickly the extra damage taken won't be a big deal.

[Dracodraco]

You do not PvP do you. And you probably don't try to solo relevant group PvE content neither.

Oh! Sorry, you seem to play a hunter! OH OH OH, no no no no! Hahahaha, you're a good boy!

PvP is by virtue either stupidly unbalanced (1v1) or group content (2v2 and above). If you're complaining that you're unkillable in world pvp, don't worry; Your frenzied regen is just as powerful as before.

As for "soloing relevant group PvE content", here's the kicker; You can't solo relevant PvE group content. If you can solo it, it's also by virtue no longer relevant, because it's group content that doesn't require a group.

As for what I play, I've got 5 characters all with concordance and varying levels of progress. I happen to use a hunter for my initial main progress. That doesn't mean I don't know how bears work, or don't play one. Bears are hilariously overpowered right now, it'd be a shame to NOT have one laying around to fuck around with doing 2M+ thrash-DPS pulls in M+ while being literally immortal.

The Guardian Mage Tower scenario could easily become borderline impossible without MoU, and that is categorically solo content.

Bullshit. You'll have 915 item level base items from M+, and 920+ heroic items from tomb. Your item level for the average non-mythic player is going to be somewhere around ~925-30 when accounting for TF/2x legendaries/weapons. 30 item levels is plenty to make up for never using MoU in a fight where the only really lethal damage is physical.

[Deleted]

I don't even mind them removing Mark of Ursol, but what has me puzzled is why they are nerfing our self healing, bears already have the worst self healing of all tanks before these nerfs. More rage nerfs as well, gonna be such fun being rage starved.

[ONCHEhap]

The Guardian Mage Tower scenario could easily become borderline impossible without MoU, and that is categorically solo content.

I mean tanks without any magic mitigation can beat an harder version of the mage tower (with +10% health on all mobs).So even without MoU the bear mage tower challenge will still remain easier than other tanks' version.After all there's a reason why there were six times as many bears with the challenge appearance than any other tanks (in %,not just base number of course)

[Dracodraco]

I don't even mind them removing Mark of Ursol, but what has me puzzled is why they are nerfing our self healing, bears already have the worst self healing of all tanks before these nerfs. More rage nerfs as well, gonna be such fun being rage starved.

In fairness, the self heals aren't being nerfed, they're being "fixed". If you are set to regen 5% hp from a frenzied regen, it doesn't make sense if you regen 7.5% because you have 50% mastery (as an example); It effectively double dips with your mastery, because not only does mastery increase your HP, but right now it increases your healing taken from PERCENTAGE BASED healing as well. They have never been fond of double dipping.

[Exigent]

The main thing that I'm worried about with these changes is the community reaction. Even if druids remain one of the best tanks, are we in for a community expectation that we're terrible now?

Loosely translated, are we going to see something similar to the BrM treatment where we're shunned from groups just because people think we were actually gutted rather than brought down to a reasonable level?

[Deleted]

I mean tanks without any magic mitigation can beat an harder version of the mage tower (with +10% health on all mobs).So even without MoU the bear mage tower challenge will still remain easier than other tanks' version.After all there's a reason why there were six times as many bears with the challenge appearance than any other tanks (in %,not just base number of course)

Thing is, most of those tanks don't have physical damage immune eyes and none of them have a debuff circle this large, which makes it impossible to get into boss melee without taking at least 2 stacks. Your percentages are among other factors a bit skewed by the fact that they don't consider the people that have the appearance and don't use it. Additionally you can expect that among multiclass tanks bears will usually be among the well geared toons, while veng DHs have mostly been abandoned.

[ONCHEhap]

Thing is, most of those tanks don't have physical damage immune eyes and none of them have a debuff circle this large, which makes it impossible to get into boss melee without taking at least 2 stacks. Your percentages are among other factors a bit skewed by the fact that they don't consider the people that have the appearance and don't use it. Additionally you can expect that among multiclass tanks bears will usually be among the well geared toons, while veng DHs have mostly been abandoned.

Eyes are melee immune for all classes except Warrior
Circle for bears is as large as any other classes except monks (which is actually even larger)
On top of that,all mobs have 10% more health for DKs,DHs,Warriors and monks,and 120% more health for paladins
Bears have a charge allowing them to cheese some of the challenge mechanics,DKs and Paladins don't
Bears also have more DPS than all other tanks except paladins,even though they face the lowest health version of the challenge
The DPS check is also way lower for bears since they can easily survive up to 3 more annihilations than other tanks,meaning they have a lot more time to kill Kruul

[Deleted]

Bear ST is NOT better than most other tanks.
90% mythic wcl tank parses.
In high percentiles right now we are middling, beating DK and DH.

So for you the AoE circle in that seems as large as the one in this? I don't think that is the case.

Also palli can bubble away Kruul stacks and is therefore the tank that can take the most annihilates.

Not sure what you want to prove. The scenario has been overnerfed and should be doable with the right gear. If it really was meant for ToS levels of gear than it is meant to be more of a joke than a challenge. In its original form I believe it would have been impossible (after fix of course) without MoU, because Variss would have just killed you off easily. You have to keep in mind that while bears (and monks to an even greater extent) are incredibly powerful in a raid or dungeon environment, they lack the self sustain that a paladin or DK bring in a solo environment, which is why I don't think that tank balance transfers well between different types of content.

Edit: With the new back legendary we will get all the sustain we need and the scenario will truly become a joke for those who have it.