High Tolerance > BoC in 7.2.5?

[Saverem]

Now that BoC's 2 most important survival aspect got nerfed; the BoF CD reduction (I don't have the chest) and KS brew reduction (now that we are limited to using ISB every 8s instead of spamming it, BoC's brew charge reduction isn't as valuable as it was back when we could spam the ability) as well as our stagger getting 5% nerfed (10% when we lose our set bonus in ToS) would HT be a better option to use now for ToS raiding progression?

[ReD-EyeD]

HT was preferred for progression even before the 7.2.5 so personally I don't see BoC's usefulness now besides the obvious dps gain.

[Saverem]

HT was preferred for progression even before the 7.2.5 so personally I don't see BoC's usefulness now besides the obvious dps gain.

Would BoC even be a DPS gain now? Only DPS you getting from it is double TP damage, 3s off BoF is barely a gain. HT will give you at least 12% perma haste now (since they changed it to 8%/12%/15%), averaging even more on progression fights.

[ReD-EyeD]

Would BoC even be a DPS gain now? Only DPS you getting from it is double TP damage, 3s off BoF is barely a gain. HT will give you at least 12% perma haste now (since they changed it to 8%/12%/15%), averaging even more on progression fights.

It's actually 300% damage total, plus face palm trait and it crits for 800k.

[Saverem]

It's actually 300% damage total, plus face palm trait and it crits for 800k.

Would 300% total damage boost on TP be better than perm 12% haste though? You'd also have to use your BoS on TP rather than other abilities which would even further reduce your mitigation with the talent.

I still think BoC is better for certain situations, like doing WQs and the Mage Tower challenge. But for PvP and progression raiding (and maybe M+ too), it looks like HT is the go-to now.

[ReD-EyeD]

Would 300% total damage boost on TP be better than perm 12% haste though? You'd also have to use your BoS on TP rather than other abilities which would even further reduce your mitigation with the talent.

Thats kinda the whole point of BoC - being adaptive, but they have nerfed defensive benefits of it quite hard. 12% haste is certainly do not outweighs BoC's damage output, not even close. But right now BoC feels like a strictly PvP/DPS talent.

[Grobovshik]

looks like HT is the go-to now.

I wont play with HT in mythic raids fk it. Tried it few times, gameplay is so boring, its like being a meatshield - you take so low damage while dealing no damage. Horrible.

[Tech614]

HT has always been the go to in any situation where you're in danger of dying.

If the tank damage is manageable BoC wins.

Nothing has changed.

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Would 300% total damage boost on TP be better than perm 12% haste though?

Yes.

Black Out Combo still destroys HT in dps as long as you use all of your combos on TP(which you should be, and is the entire purpose of the talent at this point tbh. Without it, it would be a dead talent).

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But right now BoC feels like a strictly PvP/DPS talent.

It already was. Sure it had MORE defensive benefit before the patch, but more of what is already non existent isn't saying much.

There are some very niche situations where stagger pause helped before the patch, that's pretty much dead as it's harder to get near 100% stagger without HT.

Those where literally the only defensive benefits of the talent(unless you wasted it on Keg Smash for extra charges that you don't need...) The talent was pretty much always taken for DPS in most situations. HT was taken for heavy duty progression.

The same stays true.

[Teekey]

HT has always been better than BoC for progression.

I'm more curious how people feel about Elusive Dance. 20% extra purify seems a bit stronger now that brews are a little more restricted.

Some sims I've ran, particularly in fights with adds, have shown it to be the best option.

[Juliansfist]

HT has always been better than BoC for progression.

I'm more curious how people feel about Elusive Dance. 20% extra purify seems a bit stronger now that brews are a little more restricted.

Some sims I've ran, particularly in fights with adds, have shown it to be the best option.

I've always argued ED has always yielded the best overall damage reduction; however unlike HT ED does not directly assist you in surviving big boss special attacks.

[keqe]

Would BoC even be a DPS gain now? Only DPS you getting from it is double TP damage, 3s off BoF is barely a gain. HT will give you at least 12% perma haste now (since they changed it to 8%/12%/15%), averaging even more on progression fights.

Stop spamming this stupid meme. 3s BoS CD didn't change our rotation at all outside of bloodlust.

If it did you played like shit.

[ReD-EyeD]

Stop spamming this stupid meme. 3s BoS CD didn't change our rotation at all outside of bloodlust.

If it did you played like shit.

Stop spamming this stupid meme about 3s BoS not changing anything, especially for BoC.

Calling people shit doesn't help too.

[keqe]

Stop spamming this stupid meme about 3s BoS not changing anything, especially for BoC.

Calling people shit doesn't help too.

Doesn't help that I have explained why it doesn't change our rotation outside of BL at least twice to him now without him refuting any of my points while he keeps spamming his doomsaying and complains about it.

He deserves to be called for it.

[Saverem]

Doesn't help that I have explained why it doesn't change our rotation outside of BL at least twice to him now without him refuting any of my points while he keeps spamming his doomsaying and complains about it.

He deserves to be called for it.

You should explain it a 3rd time so you can be wrong again.

[keqe]

You should explain it a 3rd time so you can be wrong again.

Would help if you actually explained how I am wrong instead of dodging it.

[Saverem]

Would help if you actually explained how I am wrong instead of dodging it.

2.6s CD is less than 3s CD. Great for times when KS and BoF were both coming off CD together and you needed to use BoS on both. Good for overall more damage. Good for when you want to put DPS over mitigation.

Great for Drums or Lust which no longer effects it.

[Nanaboostme]

For Monks, yall aint that peaceful

[keqe]

2.6s CD is less than 3s CD. Great for times when KS and BoF were both coming off CD together and you needed to use BoS on both. Good for overall more damage. Good for when you want to put DPS over mitigation.

Great for Drums or Lust which no longer effects it.

Nice example of empowering 2 abilities at once which most people don't empower at all. That line up doesn't happen that often. Maybe once in 30 seconds. So even if you wanted to do this you lose 0.4 seconds in 30 seconds. What a loss. And to remind almost no one does this. It isn't a realistic scenario. If you went that all in defensive you'd be better off with an another 100 talent. "Good for when you want to put DPS over mitigation". Maybe AoE because BoF but why KS? Your point makes no sense.

For most who empower neither or just another (BoF for people with no leg chest, or KS) it won't change as you will use the same amount of BoS in the time frame as in the last patch because you fill 5 globals between keg smashes. (If no chest you just skip BoF global if you can't use it). You get 2 BoS between keg smashes in all scenarios.

Lust and drums I explained and mentioned it was a loss there. But you arguments always revolved around 2.6s BoS being useful, not 2s BoS spam during lust.

[Saverem]

Nice example of empowering 2 abilities at once which bad people don't empower at all. That line up doesn't happen that often. Maybe once in 30 seconds. So even if you wanted to do this you lose 0.4 seconds in 30 seconds. What a loss. And to remind almost no one does this. It isn't a realistic scenario. If you went that all in defensive you'd be better off with an another 100 talent. "Good for when you want to put DPS over mitigation". Maybe AoE because BoF but why KS? Your point makes no sense.

For most who empower neither or just another (BoF for people with no leg chest, or KS) it won't change as you will use the same amount of BoS in the time frame as in the last patch because you fill 5 globals between keg smashes. (If no chest you just skip BoF global if you can't use it). You get 2 BoS between keg smashes in all scenarios.

Lust and drums I explained and mentioned it was a loss there. But you arguments always revolved around 2.6s BoS being useful, not 2s BoS spam during lust.

FTFY


morewords

[keqe]

FTFY


morewords

Nice argument there