The wicked witch is gone! Rejoice pvp scene

[Eapoe]

If you are talking about tol barad, then the issue was that it wasn't copy of wintergrasp but "running in circles" simulator.

Still a Wintergrasp clone. As stated, also before Holinka. If people got what they wanted we would have another Tol Barad. Part of Wintergrasp's appeal comes from the fact that it was new and exciting (mainly because it was new), people hadn't had something like that. We got it again in Cata and it was hated. At that point people were over it.
Wintergrasp in all actuality is not as great as people remember it. You try to cap 3 towers to extend time and hold ownership of workshops to besiege a tower. It's the same formula as Isle of Conquest, and look how well received that was. The only difference is that Wintergrasp felt mandatory (same as Tol Barad) to get a chance at extra loot. You take away the raid portion and people don't really like instances PVP in that setting as much as they let on.

[Cempa]

PVP has had issues since before Holinka and will have them after. I'm just curious, how exactly did he ruin it? Is it because it changed from FotM classes based on what comps could CC the most while bursting a target to FotM comps that just burst a target harder?
Seriously, what got ruined over the years, specifically? All I hear is "PVP is ruined" and "Holinka killed PVP!" How though?
I think everyone can agree that Wintergrasp was the best wPvP zone done in WoW, with Ashran being the worst, but does anyone even remember the copy of Wintergrasp? The Broken Isles or Lost Isles, whatever it was called? That was a pale copy of Wintergrasp that everyone cried was terrible design and that was before Holinka. At least Ashran tried being something new, a strict world instanced PVP area that was supposed to focus on big PVP battles. It's a shame it just became a place to win trade and focus side objectives over the main objective. Possibly could have become grander if the side points provided buffs or called minibosses (much like the old AV) and had timers for when these battles started while just being an open world PVP area in the downtimes.
As it is, PVP really hasn't changed much, just that instead of who can cc stun-lock the best it's more of a zergfest.

Before Holinka the teams working on PvP considered the pre-rated experience for players because they understood that is the source of 'new blood.'

You see, players don't buy WoW and log in for the very first time then jump into 3v3 or RBG .. Well not while having any fun at least ..

They knew that 'new blood' need to be cared for gaming experience wise.

So what changed lately? Pace for one (rate of talent and ability change) .. By the time we players -not talking about the ones who can reach 100% muscle memory in couple of hours- get to a point we can play rated and have fun BOOM re-balance WTF MAN!! Seriously, change is just far too fast for most of us .. Talking about my self, it takes me months to reach muscle memory with one build and that's assuming little change to no change .. Look, we get the joy of new content, but please don't change how the spec plays that fast .. It takes some/most of us a long time to get used to one rotation/priority/build, so balance the numbers within but don't change the talents and rotation FFS!

Another change, is a complete bias towards melee: Since WoW opned its doors how many melee specs have entered the game and how many ranged DPS specs entered the game? EXACTLY! Add to that World of Melee-craft to the power of a zillion .. By that I mean the dumbing down of game play ESPECIALLY for melee .. from positioning requirments eased (back stab no longer requires being behind the target .. octopus arms stabbing target in the back from the side) .. To adding gap closers while reducing gap makers ... geez louise! Next, they decided to make every build self sufficient with self heals .. eerrrr how did that work out? "Recall it used to be 'bring a healer' sort of design'"

Last but not least lest, the game moved from 'think' and plane to 'ZERG BABY ZERG' wahooooo!!

Holinka and the 'new kids on the block' team threw the baby out with the cradle and changed the design philosophy for the sake of change .. The fruit of that is a continuous decline in rated participation from 400k to below 90k and falling.

Holinka tweets gives you some insight into how the guy thinks, so when he makes comments like '...it's Horde turn..' in reply to PvP changes -ranging from racial to separate rating- you realize he's not drinking from the same pool the rest of us are .. He's on a separate planet not just from the player base, but from how WoW actually got successful ..

By the way the 'how' WoW made it secret sauce: Amazing gaming experience .. We the players, immerse our selves in a beautiful fantasy world to play a hero .. Even PvP wise, its OK if an Elemental Shaman and SL/SL Warlock where the big bad wolf that you bring friends against .. Its OK that your hero needs help when doing PvP .. Its OK when you need a team and friends to max your fun PvP wise .. Its not OK that tanks get to run around the world like demigods!

[Nfinitii]

Honestly the worst part of pvp is the community. Too many ppl r looking for someone or something else to blame instead of realizing they r the problem. Too many have unrealistic expectations. Is the game flawed? Sure, it always has been. Every expansion has had its own set of issues.

[Caolela]

/endthread with the first reply

Yeah...nope.

Here's what will happen:

The one to replace Hoelunkster will not be free to make PvP into something decent. It will be a further doubling down of bullshit and hated parameters, with ridiculous pandering to the no-life cheaters/streamers and Korean hamsters - just as when people thought it could only get better after Ashran/WoD, it got worse with Legion.

The interesting part will be: are people going to buy the same string of lies spewed from Blizz HQ for the next few months as they always have, so Blizz gets them to part with more of their cash?

Or will they finally get wise to it and tell Blizz to fuck off until they decide to make the game for the players again, not for the money-grubbers at shareholder meetings?

[RobertoCarlos]

/endthread with the first reply

Don't worry theres no pvp scene left so no one will really care who hes replaced by its too little to late.

[docterfreeze]

Celestalon is the guy we want to get pruned. Class design is the deciding factor to whether or not PvP is fun. Holinka leaving changes nothing.

[Flaks]

Why are we discussing other jobs? Stick to the topic please. End of the day he has the qualifications for that job.

And he did an objectively poor job. I certainly hated on a lot of Ghostcrawler's design decisions but, unlike Holinka, he saw consistent increases in PvP player counts. Since Holinka has been around, PvP participation has plummeted. No one can argue this point.

[Deleted]

Celestalon is the guy we want to get pruned. Class design is the deciding factor to whether or not PvP is fun. Holinka leaving changes nothing.

This is actually the name I hear more often when it comes to most disliked Devs.

[Philomene]

Finally, someone gets the point, class designs are disgusting, that's why people stopped playing PvP. PvP has always been unbalanced with some unfunny stuff but there were still some progression and a skill scale. Now since classes have been chainsawed nothing is to be hoped for this game in terms of PvP. It will still remain uninteresting, unchallenging and with a skill cap that will only get closer to the skill ceiling.

Sad, but it's too late and it's not Holinka's fault, but the class designers who just fucked up their own game for the sake of attracting people who are afraid of depth.

[tikcol]

PvP is already better

[Orangetai420]

I'm sure pvp will suddenly become amazing.
Remember when Ghostcrawler left, and the gam- wait.
Oh! Remember when Kaplan left, and the gam- wait.

1 guy doesn't have nearly as much effect on PvP as you think he does.

^This right here. If you think WoW pvp is suddenly going to return to the glory days you are dead wrong.

[RobertoCarlos]

^This right here. If you think WoW pvp is suddenly going to return to the glory days you are dead wrong.

Who said it would return to glory? The damage has been done

[Banard]

And so his watch has ended. Holinka will be but a sour taste in your mouth when you hear his name.

Let's hope they get someone in who actually wants the pvp scene to do well. One can hope

was he new? I dont pay attention who works for blizzard...all i know these days i hate pvp....dont get me wrong i am not good a pvp and maybe a bit of a "try hard" but these days i cant stand it.

[RobertoCarlos]

was he new? I dont pay attention who works for blizzard...all i know these days i hate pvp....dont get me wrong i am not good a pvp and maybe a bit of a "try hard" but these days i cant stand it.

He's been around since the start. Not as lead pvp dev though. Think of him as a nobody that is mates with bill Gates and he got a great gig at Microsoft through his friendship with bill not his talent. Holinka was best buds with the founding members of blizzard, nuff said

[Orangetai420]

Who said it would return to glory? The damage has been done

Then why bother celebrating? Chances are the next person is even more incompetent.

[RobertoCarlos]

Then why bother celebrating? Chances are the next person is even more incompetent.

Whoever it is can't do much worse so may as well hope they get someone passionate in

[Gadzooks]

He's been around since the start. Not as lead pvp dev though. Think of him as a nobody that is mates with bill Gates and he got a great gig at Microsoft through his friendship with bill not his talent. Holinka was best buds with the founding members of blizzard, nuff said

Laughably untrue. He was hired by Ghostcrawler in 2012, he worked on a game at a company owned Activision before getting hired at Blizzard.

[RobertoCarlos]

Laughably untrue. He was hired by Ghostcrawler in 2012, he worked on a game at a company owned Activision before getting hired at Blizzard.

He's best buddies with kaplan, Chilton, metzhen. Doesn't hurt having those kind of friends at blizz

[Orangetai420]

Whoever it is can't do much worse so may as well hope they get someone passionate in

You say that now....

[RobertoCarlos]

You say that now....

Unless they make a go fund me early retirement account and ask the public to donate to it to get them to resign like your boy holinka you won't see me make a thread about them