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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Snootylol View Post
    Looks like beast cannon is here to stay boys.. numerous ppl saying even with 4pc it sims/performs higher then DF
    Nobody expected it to go away quick. The big question to answer atm is if/when you get the higher ilevel offpieces from ToS does that start outperforming breaking the 2pc/4pc setups. And if so, at what combination of those pieces.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    Nobody expected it to go away quick. The big question to answer atm is if/when you get the higher ilevel offpieces from ToS does that start outperforming breaking the 2pc/4pc setups. And if so, at what combination of those pieces.
    Honestly I think you can pretty much go with either one and be fine. For the Stomp/Owtp build though you NEED more crit gear as well as two high ilvl pieces of Tier 19. I just need Tier 20 Hands and the New ring and IM going 4 piece tier 20, 2 piece tier 19 (925 helm and 910 cloak) with Waist/Ring legendary

  3. #83
    Wewlad the amount of political discussion in this thread about a game is simply amazing. You guys should run for government and all that.

    But eh enough of that I guess. I'm gonna have to agree with others here in that the stomp/owtp build is going to stay for, at least, a good while into ToS wher maybe it will start to fall behind as people have access to mythic tier and really high levels of titan forging.

  4. #84
    Deleted
    Going by some quick simulations one would need the two items replacing T19 together being 75 ilvls higher. Go figure.

  5. #85
    Deleted
    Sounds good, the beast cannon build is pretty darn fun.

  6. #86
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubulous View Post
    Honestly I think you can pretty much go with either one and be fine. For the Stomp/Owtp build though you NEED more crit gear as well as two high ilvl pieces of Tier 19. I just need Tier 20 Hands and the New ring and IM going 4 piece tier 20, 2 piece tier 19 (925 helm and 910 cloak) with Waist/Ring legendary
    I got a bit lucky and completed my T20 with 2-T19-Pieces (Shoulders and Hands 910) and that new Ring/Belt. My Sims are pretty clear: Stomp/Owtp is far ahead of Dire Frenzy etc. And you "only" need around ~30% of Crit. My Stat-Weights are:
    Haste: 31.58 Crit: 30.85 Mastery: 29.89 Agi: 26.14 Vers: 22.78

    Can also confirm, that the 2 piece T19 sims higher than Warforged Off-Pieces (got Shoulder 925+Socket from Huntress and 920 Hands from Kil Jaeden).

    Armory: worldofwarcraft. com/ de-de/character/onyxia/ megamenu (not allowed to post links)

  7. #87
    Deleted
    I ll be honest.. i really dont like where this is heading so far. Dire Frenzy was really good for raiding environment. More competitive than the stomp build, and ppl who were managing the stacks or planning their cds were pulling ahead on dps. The Stomp on the other hand is very simple. You just need gear and nothing else. Is there a chance something will change drastically? I am seriously thinking maybe MM might be more enjoyable

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis82 View Post
    I ll be honest.. i really dont like where this is heading so far. Dire Frenzy was really good for raiding environment. More competitive than the stomp build, and ppl who were managing the stacks or planning their cds were pulling ahead on dps. The Stomp on the other hand is very simple. You just need gear and nothing else. Is there a chance something will change drastically? I am seriously thinking maybe MM might be more enjoyable
    Then play MM if you find it more enjoyable. It has the higher Simmed dmg potential and that is why everyone seems to care about these days the sim numbers

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis82 View Post
    I ll be honest.. i really dont like where this is heading so far. Dire Frenzy was really good for raiding environment. More competitive than the stomp build, and ppl who were managing the stacks or planning their cds were pulling ahead on dps. The Stomp on the other hand is very simple. You just need gear and nothing else. Is there a chance something will change drastically? I am seriously thinking maybe MM might be more enjoyable
    A slight difference in a single row of talents is making you switch specs? The world of RNG awaits you with MM. Hopefully you have the boots.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorann View Post
    Going by some quick simulations one would need the two items replacing T19 together being 75 ilvls higher. Go figure.
    If thats true I would have to get some pretty high pieces since I have 910 cloak and 925 helm tier 19

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Megamenu View Post
    I got a bit lucky and completed my T20 with 2-T19-Pieces (Shoulders and Hands 910) and that new Ring/Belt. My Sims are pretty clear: Stomp/Owtp is far ahead of Dire Frenzy etc. And you "only" need around ~30% of Crit. My Stat-Weights are:
    Haste: 31.58 Crit: 30.85 Mastery: 29.89 Agi: 26.14 Vers: 22.78

    Can also confirm, that the 2 piece T19 sims higher than Warforged Off-Pieces (got Shoulder 925+Socket from Huntress and 920 Hands from Kil Jaeden).

    Armory: worldofwarcraft. com/ de-de/character/onyxia/ megamenu (not allowed to post links)
    Nice...ya I got 920 or 925 with socket tier pants on a bonus roll for tier 20....got Heroic ilvl chest, and normal shoulders....Need to hopefully get Heroic ilvl + hands and shoulders still hopefully

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis82 View Post
    I ll be honest.. i really dont like where this is heading so far. Dire Frenzy was really good for raiding environment. More competitive than the stomp build, and ppl who were managing the stacks or planning their cds were pulling ahead on dps. The Stomp on the other hand is very simple. You just need gear and nothing else. Is there a chance something will change drastically? I am seriously thinking maybe MM might be more enjoyable
    With the set bonus being nerfed and also being gone I dont know how much you can even keep up DF anymore especially with BF instead of OWTP. Does anyone know if its even possible to keep a 3 stack up for a long time now. I honestly havent played that build since patch came out

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamenu View Post
    I got a bit lucky and completed my T20 with 2-T19-Pieces (Shoulders and Hands 910) and that new Ring/Belt. My Sims are pretty clear: Stomp/Owtp is far ahead of Dire Frenzy etc. And you "only" need around ~30% of Crit. My Stat-Weights are:
    Haste: 31.58 Crit: 30.85 Mastery: 29.89 Agi: 26.14 Vers: 22.78

    Can also confirm, that the 2 piece T19 sims higher than Warforged Off-Pieces (got Shoulder 925+Socket from Huntress and 920 Hands from Kil Jaeden).

    Armory: worldofwarcraft. com/ de-de/character/onyxia/ megamenu (not allowed to post links)
    As far as I can tell from some preliminary investigations into this, owtp/stomp is viable for me if I get the huntmaster ring, but for my current legendaries and gear, bf/df is still ahead with 2pc4pc.


    Simcraft Source

    In the sim, if I changed around stats or gear, I appended that to the end of the profile string to differentiate. People can do similar things with their own gear by downloading the source and changing the "armory=*" strings to their own armory profiles.

  12. #92
    Deleted
    Is there is any Haste breakpoint i`m on 11% haste 31% crit 84% mastery and sims find out that haste is my top stat now its something like
    Haste28.25;Crit27.17;Mastery25.23
    I use bracers/belt combo (have no replacement on that 915 CoF...)
    Last edited by mmoc2b5ad7a33a; 2017-06-25 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Is there is any Haste breakpoint i`m on 11% haste 31% crit 84% mastery and sims find out that haste is my top stat now its something like
    Haste28.25;Crit27.17;Mastery25.23
    I use bracers/belt combo (have no replacement on that 915 CoF...)
    Doesn't seem to be - but depends. For myself, I discovered a soft-cap for crit around ~35%.

  14. #94
    So, I have a question about beast cannon. How do you guys do the pull rotation? Which is the best order to use the abilities?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinitar View Post
    So, I have a question about beast cannon. How do you guys do the pull rotation? Which is the best order to use the abilities?
    Edit: sorry misread the question:

    1. A Murder of Crows
    2. Bestial Wrath
    3. Kill Command
    4. Dire Beast x2 (both charges)
    5. Titan's Thunder
    6. Aspect of the Wild
    7. Continue with your normal priority list

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    Edit: sorry misread the question:

    1. A Murder of Crows
    2. Bestial Wrath
    3. Kill Command
    4. Dire Beast x2 (both charges)
    5. Titan's Thunder
    6. Aspect of the Wild
    7. Continue with your normal priority list
    That is the opener if you are playing DF so that you enter AotW with 2 stacks of Dire Frenzy.

    Pretty sure if you are playing stomp you will want to put AotW earlier in your priority list to get the 10% crit to your beasts... Making your opener something like this:
    1. AMOC
    2. BW/AotC
    3. KC
    4. DB x2 (there is a reasonable good chance that you will get a DB proc here, use it before TT for even more dmg)
    5. TT
    6. Normal priority system from here.
    Last edited by Holovik; 2017-06-26 at 03:17 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Holovik View Post
    That is the opener if you are playing DF so that you enter AotW with 2 stacks of Dire Frenzy.

    Pretty sure if you are playing stomp you will want to put AotW earlier in your priority list to get the 10% crit to your beasts... Making your opener something like this:
    1. AMOC
    2. BW/AotC
    3. KC
    4. DB x2 (there is a reasonable good chance that you will get a DB proc here, use it before TT for even more dmg)
    5. TT
    6. Normal priority system from here.
    Actually with AoTW lasting 14 seconds what you want to do is something more like this. There is no reason AotW early because while it will be minimal you will lose some of the Focus regen if you open in the manner you are saying.

    1. Prepot
    2. AMOC
    3. BW/KC
    4. AotW/DB/TT
    5. DB
    6. CShot
    7. KC
    Rotation

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Guzrud View Post
    Actually with AoTW lasting 14 seconds what you want to do is something more like this. There is no reason AotW early because while it will be minimal you will lose some of the Focus regen if you open in the manner you are saying.

    1. Prepot
    2. AMOC
    3. BW/KC
    4. AotW/DB/TT
    5. DB
    6. CShot
    7. KC
    Rotation
    I don't see how. You just spent 30 focus on AMOC so it's not wasted since you don't cap. Plus you give your KC +10% crit chance (and potentially a thunderslash proc?? not sure if KC causes thunderslash dmg)

  19. #99
    My problem with Azor writing the BM guide is that half he doesn't hide the fact he's mainly a MM player and leaves all those reference in the BM guide. Take the legendary trinket as an example. The info about the MM ability has nothing to do with the BM guide. Which would just confuse new BM players learning how to play better from the guide.

  20. #100
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis82 View Post
    I ll be honest.. i really dont like where this is heading so far. Dire Frenzy was really good for raiding environment. More competitive than the stomp build, and ppl who were managing the stacks or planning their cds were pulling ahead on dps. The Stomp on the other hand is very simple. You just need gear and nothing else. Is there a chance something will change drastically? I am seriously thinking maybe MM might be more enjoyable
    NH was mostly ST focused raid.Unlike ToS where you get only 2 ST bosses and everything else is AoE and Cleave DF is not good for cleave simply because you do not want to use Multishtot in your BW uptime no need to mention that pets does not need to run like crazy
    Also lets not forget that DF pets buff up our cobra shot put the TR + 3 running pets + artefacts who will most likely reach ilv 950
    So yea its easy and boring but we do DPS and i want to do DPS if i want complicated like hell rotation will choose any of the casters(thats why i do not play MM i can simply jump in to Shadow priest and do much more damage )
    Last edited by mmoc2b5ad7a33a; 2017-06-27 at 03:40 AM.

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