Stormblood MSQ Discussion (THERE ARE SPOILERS IN HERE)

[lawow74]

I gotcha. Understood. And I do apologize if my snark was extra bitey. It was just such a passionate "F you, Square" it seemed even more harsh than seemed reasonable at first.

With the extra pains, I see the extra frustration. Kind of like the player frustration with Titan in the old days when Square didn't even conceive of lag when designing the fight.

Thank you, that's appreciated. And yeah, the language is a bit of a shock, but it's less table-flippy and more bird-flippy. Hence why I said 'unvarnished'. Like I pointed out, it's very much an EMOTIONAL response, not really a rational one.

I just like the idea of things being even bigger and more complex that one person isn't able to address everything on their own and that others are doing stuff while we're doing our stuff and sometimes we gather our forces.

It's a nice sentiment, but on the flip-side, if it's not 'Oh they're handling the resurgence of x' all the time, players are going to go 'Why can't WE go do x? That sounds so much cooler than y! SE give us x to do!'

[Faroth]

It's a nice sentiment, but on the flip-side, if it's not 'Oh they're handling the resurgence of x' all the time, players are going to go 'Why can't WE go do x? That sounds so much cooler than y! SE give us x to do!'

Shuffle the poor extras to be handling the resummoned Primal. You know they're just running EX for accessories while we handle the new content.

[lawow74]

I don't see this fight as all that different than other encounters we see, mainly in the job quests. We have an enemy, we have mechanics to do, some of which are protecting people and then we have some trigger event that pushes the fight forward or to it's conclusion. What is so different about this one that makes it so egregiously bad when compared to those other ones?

Call it a perfect storm of things that piss me off to get to a final aggravation of not feeling rewarded in having dealt with those things. Yes, it would have been better if I'd gotten the kill shot, or they had made it clear the fight was won instead of toying with me near the end, like I was about to fail the duty and have to endure all that aggravating bullshit all over. I did not feel relief. I felt the desire to slap the shit out of whoever made the design call on that. I still feel like giving ye olde middle finger their way.

It put me back in mind of how much I despised Vashj'ir back in the days of Cataclysm for WoW. How so many times during that questline you were completely made irrelevant as an NPC swooped in to save you, like getting railroaded in a tabletop RPG to where your character is meaningless cos DM's Favorite NPC is going to be the star.

Anyways, touching back on something earlier, I don't think a romance option will really materialize in a game like this. I expect the friendship delivery quests will be the closest you get to it.

[Resiak]

It makes sense why Faroth responded the way he did though. There's a feeling of constantly being on the defensive here as a fan of the game. So many people love to come here and bash as much as they can about the game, and we're constantly called fanboys if we defend, or that we need to listen to the complaints and try and understand their side of arguments to foster a better community and be more accessible, never mind that are views are completely ignored. It leads to a lot of defensiveness.

As for the fight, I enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty cool to fight a primal without a party. And I understand the design decision behind the fight. Making every fight just a straight up regular combat gets old. It gets old for us and the developers. Their job is to try new things, keep things interesting, vary the gameplay a little when they can. And I felt they did a good job with that fight. It wasn't a huge change, say like combat vehicles in WoW where. Just enough to make us think a little differently.

As far as the kill shot, was it really that big of a deal? The whole point of this game is that, while your a rare case with the echo, your not a god. You need your friends. Fordola saved us with the shield. We've been saved many other times, and we've done the saving many other times. I know I'll take a developed narrative with more character development over needing to feel like a mary sue god all of the time any day.

Now, on the actual topic. This patch impressed me. I actually liked that it was very narrative driven. Some extra lore behind the Ala Mhigans. Some character development from the Sultana. Seeing Lyse growing into her role and stepping out from just being the bruiser for the Scions. Seeing Raubahn going back to his people. And then seeing the nation trying to reestablish itself. I love the way they build things. While I like WoW for different reasons, the constant need to have a world ending threat is exhausting. I love how in 14 they dial it back at times. The little adventure at the beginning of 4.1, escorting the Sultana to get a better feel of her city and people, these are moments that make me feel closer to the world and the story. I really like the direction the game is heading.

[Faroth]

I really like the direction the game is heading.

A note on this...

It actually makes me oddly content to know that Final Fantasy XIV will end one day and when it does, it will end with a conclusion of the story they've been telling up to that point. Whether that's a new storyline or concluding plot threads we follow for years is beside the point for me so much as the game will head towards a conclusion one day. One worthy of a main numbered entry of Final Fantasy.

That's important with the MMOs being numbered games in the series and we saw Final Fantasy XI got a proper storyline conclusion at its end of development. Knowing the same will surely be offered to FFXIV's playerbase makes me happy.

The only thing I'd like to see Square think about is developing a Kingdoms of Amalur kind of approach, incorporating things they've learned about AI/Gambit system/etc. and findind a way to take the defining experience of FFXIV - primarily the MSQs for each expansion, and roll them into a single player game after the MMOs are concluded.

I'd love to see an HD facelift and single player release of Final Fantasy XI's main story and such released for an anniversary, either of release or shut down, and one day in the far future, the same with FFXIV would be so cool to see.

[Kazgrel]

A note on this...

It actually makes me oddly content to know that Final Fantasy XIV will end one day and when it does, it will end with a conclusion of the story they've been telling up to that point. Whether that's a new storyline or concluding plot threads we follow for years is beside the point for me so much as the game will head towards a conclusion one day. One worthy of a main numbered entry of Final Fantasy.

That's important with the MMOs being numbered games in the series and we saw Final Fantasy XI got a proper storyline conclusion at its end of development. Knowing the same will surely be offered to FFXIV's playerbase makes me happy.

The only thing I'd like to see Square think about is developing a Kingdoms of Amalur kind of approach, incorporating things they've learned about AI/Gambit system/etc. and findind a way to take the defining experience of FFXIV - primarily the MSQs for each expansion, and roll them into a single player game after the MMOs are concluded.

I'd love to see an HD facelift and single player release of Final Fantasy XI's main story and such released for an anniversary, either of release or shut down, and one day in the far future, the same with FFXIV would be so cool to see.

I can't help but think of that being...odd. Not necessarily good or bad, just odd, but I'm also someone who hasn't played FF11, so I don't know the lore to it and how the ending of the main story for it was concluded while leaving the game world/servers up and running.

I do agree with the idea that if they're going to sunset a MMO, at least those with a focus on their story or stories, have said MMO be developed into a single player RPG, so future generations can enjoy said stories.

Heck, at one point, the idea that the character I had been playing for years and years could be essentially killed off or whatever due to the game ending would've made me furious. Now I'm like "Ok, how exactly does that make sense lore/story-wise?", followed by me simply hopping to another game.

[Faroth]

Not too much story-wise in the new patch, but starts laying ground work for the story going forward.

What are our new thoughts on the future of Yotsuyu? It seems Fordola will be the redemption antagonist.

I'm kind of thinking Yostsuyu will regain her memories and side with her brother, but something she does will ultimately prove to be their downfall and Doma's victory. Two villains being redeemed seems redundant, but Gosetsu and Yotsuyu surviving "by the kami's will" almost feels like it may be a "Gollum still has a part to play, for good or ill" kind of set up.

[Katchii]

Not too much story-wise in the new patch, but starts laying ground work for the story going forward.

What are our new thoughts on the future of Yotsuyu? It seems Fordola will be the redemption antagonist.

I'm kind of thinking Yostsuyu will regain her memories and side with her brother, but something she does will ultimately prove to be their downfall and Doma's victory. Two villains being redeemed seems redundant, but Gosetsu and Yotsuyu surviving "by the kami's will" almost feels like it may be a "Gollum still has a part to play, for good or ill" kind of set up.

My thoughts exactly. The whole mirror thing at the end makes me think something weird (magical/ otherworldly influence type weird) is going to happen. Fordola does seem to be the redemption arc character with Yotsuyu still having a part to play with the Empire.

Very curious about what part Zenos still has to play and how Asahi fits into it all. The story has me very intrigued, to say the least.

Finished the MSQ stuff yesterday, will work on the other content today with dungeons being first, Omega and Jade Stoa being second.

[Faroth]

My thoughts exactly. The whole mirror thing at the end makes me think something weird (magical/ otherworldly influence type weird) is going to happen. Fordola does seem to be the redemption arc character with Yotsuyu still having a part to play with the Empire.

Very curious about what part Zenos still has to play and how Asahi fits into it all. The story has me very intrigued, to say the least.

Finished the MSQ stuff yesterday, will work on the other content today with dungeons being first, Omega and Jade Stoa being second.

I'm still assuming that the Ascian is taking the face of Zenos, hence the Emperor's "how dare you" shock response. We know the dude died in front of us. His body wouldn't just up and disappear and be back to life without any mention of it!

In case there's any uncertainty, Hell's Lid will lead you to Jade Stoa. I absolutely loved the end of Hell's Lid.

[Kazgrel]

Due to being an ambassador/talker, I was thinking Asahi was Elidibus, but upon further review, he has a shadow (and we would think the WoL + Scions would be wise up to notice such things by this point). I'm wondering why the Ascian would go about modeling himself after Zenos when we saw the body hit the ground right in front of us...although we don't see what happened to it afterwards, so something something necromancy or whatever.

I, too, don't see a point in both Yotsuyu and Fordola having redemption arcs; most all signs point towards the former ending up getting the axe.

BTW, am I the only person who laughed when Asahi went all rage face at the end?

[Remilia]

BTW, am I the only person who laughed when Asahi went all rage face at the end?

Nope, knew something dumb was going to happen, but that face was just trying too hard kind of feel and just made it lawlsy instead.

[Faroth]

I didn't laugh but when I saw it, I thought "whelp, as I expected.....you're a psycho."

[Katchii]

Nope, knew something dumb was going to happen, but that face was just trying too hard kind of feel and just made it lawlsy instead.

I lol'd too, it was over the top anime crazy. It doesn't look menacing, it looks ridiculous.

[dope_danny]

Not too much story-wise in the new patch, but starts laying ground work for the story going forward.

What are our new thoughts on the future of Yotsuyu? It seems Fordola will be the redemption antagonist.

I'm kind of thinking Yostsuyu will regain her memories and side with her brother, but something she does will ultimately prove to be their downfall and Doma's victory. Two villains being redeemed seems redundant, but Gosetsu and Yotsuyu surviving "by the kami's will" almost feels like it may be a "Gollum still has a part to play, for good or ill" kind of set up.

Knowing SE i think she is going to be our general leo/celes of sorts. She will end up saving the day at some critical moment and reveal she got her memories back ages ago and the player character showed her a better way, but its still motivated out of some kind of revenge.

[lawow74]

Just finished the 4.2 MSQ stuff, I was overall pleased with it. No forced dungeon run, solo duties were not composed of onerous character-dismissing mechanics, and story had an interesting twist, though I had to eyeroll at Zenos still being alive. Now let's see if his character can play more than one note before we make him fukkended again. And his little butt-buddy, too.

Even if Asahi's a wash, I do wonder if the mention of two political factions within Garlemald will afford us an in when (as many suspect it will) the next xpac takes us there to put paid to them once and for all? Supporting the 'for the people' faction in an overthrow of the 'true Garleans uber alles' faction sounds about like our usual modus operandi.

As for Yotsuyu, I do wonder how they'll play her out. Will she return, go full foot-fetish ebil-ho again and just pretend to be sweet and nice, go full foot-fetish ebil-ho without any deception, or will she actually assimilate that part of her recovered past into her new experiences and find some measure of actual redemption? Time will tell. I do think she's less likely to be the one with real staying power, I expect Fordola's actually going to endure for some time to come.

[Graeham]

It was...adequate.

I'm getting a bit bored of the habit of presenting every major figure associated with Garlemald as various shades of unhinged and crazy, though. We know that moderate Garleans exist and not all of those are civilians or defectors...but the developers foolishly hide them away in side quests and then never reference them again. Garlemald itself doesn't even feel like a threat these days.

[lawow74]

I was also pleased with the added Doman Enclave zone. Now if only that would be the daily hub for new crafting dailies...but alas, it's prolly gonna be the Namazu in Yanxia.

[Karamaru]

I didn't laugh but when I saw it, I thought "whelp, as I expected.....you're a psycho."

Same here I went "Welp that went about as expected as it would"

Also is that Mirror Asahi gave Tsuyu the same Mirror from the red Kojin vault?, if so then my hunch it being set up proved right.

[Kazgrel]

I’m almost wondering if anyone of super significance will end up dead (and staying dead) during this xpac. Almost seems like they took any sort of complaints about how 3.0 boredered on being Game of Thrones with folks dying at every other turn to heart so no everyone equipped plot armor.

[lawow74]

I think they've been kind of heavy-handed with the 'loyal Garleans cannot be sympathetic' thing ever since Yoshi got butthurt players were sympathizing with van Baelsar. Unless they're throwaways who will die.