Frost DK Bottom Tier for ToS?

[Killface1]

fact: frost is awful. Play unholy

Silver lining. You can play unholy.

#atleastyourenotawwmonk

[RuneDK]

fact: frost is awful. Play unholy

Silver lining. You can play unholy.

#atleastyourenotawwmonk

As Neme said, Frost will get better...it's not like unholy is where frost was during NH. Will it be better than unholy...most likely not. If it's within a reasonable amount then I don't care and will stick with frost. If it gets to the point that I cannot compete with my raid, and I get the right legendaries then I will consider going unholy. Also, numbers still aren't final. I would expect a hotfix on Tuesday with buffs/nerfs and then again in 2-4 weeks.

[Deleted]

Personally I'd like seeing machine gun being meta again instead of BoS, at least for ToS. Movement isn't as punishing as BoS, we'd have cleave damage in form of Avalanche, Frozen Pulse and Frostscythe, which also results in less dependency on Rime. T20 bonus would still be fine because of the synergy with Avalanche. Of course machine gun would need some buffs to be relevant/viable. My idea would be buff machine gun talents accordingly (Icy Talons, Frozen Pulse, Avalanche) and also buff Obliteration a little (Frost Strike and Obliterate deal x% more damage while Obliberation is active in addition to its current effect). What do you guys think about this?

[Deleted]

Personally I'd like seeing machine gun coming back for ToS. Movement won't be as punishing, we'd have reliable cleave damage in form of Frozen Pulse, Avalanche and Frostscythe. With that we wouldn't need to pray to RNGesus to give us Rime proccs, which we'd maybe even get more frequently because of the changes to Frostscythe earlier. Our T20 bonus would still be relevant because of the synergy with Avalanche. Of course machine gun would need some buffs to be viable. I was thinking about buffing machine gun talents accordingly (Icy Talons, Frozen Pulse, Avalanche) and make Obliteration more relevant (Maybe make it Obliterate and Frost Strike deal x% more damage while Obliteration is active in addition to its current effect). What do you guys think about that?

[Deleted]

As Neme said, Frost will get better...it's not like unholy is where frost was during NH. Will it be better than unholy...most likely not. If it's within a reasonable amount then I don't care and will stick with frost. If it gets to the point that I cannot compete with my raid, and I get the right legendaries then I will consider going unholy. Also, numbers still aren't final. I would expect a hotfix on Tuesday with buffs/nerfs and then again in 2-4 weeks.

I wonder "if" frost will get any better. I tested the t20 vs t19 on the same ilvl, and t19 was a bigger dps increase still... The only increase that t20 will have over t19 is the ilvl difference. I totally agree that there will/should be a hotfix.

UH is looking a lot stronger right now, and that's considering most do not even have their 4pc. Unholy's 4pc is a huge increase for them so expect the difference between the two specs to grow. Frost 2pc/4pc is rather underwhelming.

We will of course still be fine as long you are not looking to clear ToS Mythic in the first few weeks. I highly doubt any of the "top" dk's are still playing frost. In the long run you can get away with playing frost and still go 9/9 M eventually.

[Deonora]

I am confused as to what is going on with Frost. Before the patch I was doing around 900k-910k according to raidbots sim. Now after patch with 2 pieces of tier 20 and my 4 piece T19. I should show a dps increase RIGHT?

Raidbots sims at 856k what in the actual F?

[Deleted]

I am confused as to what is going on with Frost. Before the patch I was doing around 900k-910k according to raidbots sim. Now after patch with 2 pieces of tier 20 and my 4 piece T19. I should show a dps increase RIGHT?

Raidbots sims at 856k what in the actual F?

Is the t20 you are using lower ilvl then the items you replaced? Also try simming with HoW. But yea the increase will not be much, or not at all

[Deonora]

Is the t20 you are using lower ilvl then the items you replaced? Also try simming with HoW. But yea the increase will not be much, or not at all

The helm i replaced was 900 and tier item is 900 only gloves was 905 and tier item is 900 but I assumed set bonus is beter than 5ilvl's. Sim with HoW is 874k. I really don't get it.

Is nerf to blast Radius that big?

[jashmaster]

Whoever says there isn't a lot of movement hasn't done Maiden and Avatar, like holy fucking shit it's so aids. I almost think that a ring-less playstyle like bracers/chest or bracers/belt would be better just because the second HRW you never get to use because you gotta run the fuck away from the boss half the time. Seems like we need to reorient the playstyle toward the "short but effective" breath build e.g. high burst with bracers/chest and just fuck duration altogether. Though Blizz kinda fucked that a bit with BR nerf because the short & effective playstyle was mostly fishing for rimes and building a quick GS 10 stack inside of pillar/potion/bracers window.

8/9H for reference if that matters

Also @jashmaster depends on if Maiden is close by because you can cindy/breath cleave/Rime cleave and do like 250k more DPS, too bad Maiden damage doesn't mean anything. Link boss damage and I'll give you credit if more than 80% of that damage was on boss lmao.

Unless your raid is full of mongs who want to wipe, padding on maiden is useless ;D its ok tho cus WE AINT DEAD YET FAM http://imgur.com/a/TLfrI and just wait till that 4p kicks in im tellin you hwhat

[Nero Stormchester]

Yeah DK is sucking ass at Simcraft, I don't know if it will actually be that way but it's not very appealing being at the absolute bottom.

That would be Survival Hunters, WW monks and DHs (the last 2 not even having a back up options like DKs and Hunters do)

[tweakoli]

http: // imgur.com /a/ kBbbZ

This sums up my week very nicely. Before 7.2.5 doing just above 900k dps on Fdk.

Now I cry in the corner. If we don't get a buff and enh stays the same I'm going enhance.

[RuneDK]

Personally I'd like seeing machine gun coming back for ToS. Movement won't be as punishing, we'd have reliable cleave damage in form of Frozen Pulse, Avalanche and Frostscythe. With that we wouldn't need to pray to RNGesus to give us Rime proccs, which we'd maybe even get more frequently because of the changes to Frostscythe earlier. Our T20 bonus would still be relevant because of the synergy with Avalanche. Of course machine gun would need some buffs to be viable. I was thinking about buffing machine gun talents accordingly (Icy Talons, Frozen Pulse, Avalanche) and make Obliteration more relevant (Maybe make it Obliterate and Frost Strike deal x% more damage while Obliteration is active in addition to its current effect). What do you guys think about that?

Honestly I would love the reliance on BoS to go down. It should be a big cooldown yes, but not to the point that it's fuck everything else while it's going. Even without two charges 40-50 second BoS' should be normal...Frost will go up as we gain fight knowledge but I can guarantee it's behind unholy due to set bonuses....how the unholy tier didnt get nerfed still makes me go "huh?". But it is what it is. This is the problem Blizzard created when they made you have to focus on a single spec and not a class.

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I wonder "if" frost will get any better. I tested the t20 vs t19 on the same ilvl, and t19 was a bigger dps increase still... The only increase that t20 will have over t19 is the ilvl difference. I totally agree that there will/should be a hotfix.

UH is looking a lot stronger right now, and that's considering most do not even have their 4pc. Unholy's 4pc is a huge increase for them so expect the difference between the two specs to grow. Frost 2pc/4pc is rather underwhelming.

We will of course still be fine as long you are not looking to clear ToS Mythic in the first few weeks. I highly doubt any of the "top" dk's are still playing frost. In the long run you can get away with playing frost and still go 9/9 M eventually.

This reply is to the bolded...that's not entirely true for most. Most of the lesser guilds are actually worse than the "hardcore" guilds. They see unholy > frost you must play unholy...and I understand the reasoning...the ceiling is MUCH higher....but I would rather have someone happy and playing frost(so long as they compete within the guild) than force them to play unholy, do less dps and be unhappy just because of a simulated ceiling.

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The helm i replaced was 900 and tier item is 900 only gloves was 905 and tier item is 900 but I assumed set bonus is beter than 5ilvl's. Sim with HoW is 874k. I really don't get it.

Is nerf to blast Radius that big?

Short Answer....yes absolutely that big.

Longer Answer.....They nerfed the trait into the ground and didn't give much to compensate for it when we were losing the tier bonus that made the trait what it was. I was easily doing 1m HB crits before the patch(without flask, pof, potion, fc buff). Post patch my normal non cooldown HBs are only critting for 7-800k. That's a SUBSTANTIAL amount of damage to lose. I thought nerfing the trait was the right move, but the compensation for nerfing the trait was quite a bit underwhelming imho. They should have put some of the damage they nerfed into the ability itself while still nerfing the trait.

[Bisque]

I guess the question now is, assuming they buff frost, how/what is the best way to do it?

Is it a simple aura buff, "all abilities do 5% more damage", do they increase razorice from 15-20%, will they buff the god dam awful hypothermia trait or will we see something more substantial like allowing obliteration or heck even GA being a viable talent choice?

[tweakoli]

Make Frost more like assassination rogues, from my sims it looks like Mas/Vers is the stats to have similar to rogues. Make BoS like Kingsblades, 15sec timer in which any st attack also has an AOE element for extra damage for 3+ mobs and making attacks on 1 mob have a higher crit chance 15-20%.

Stacking mastery/vers gives us bigger base damage for oblits/fs/fcS/hblast. Due to higher base damage we could take icy talons on top the base damage increase which would bring our sustained up.

For CDs:
Frost Breath should do half initial damage and leave a dot behind that increase damage over 10sec by 10%.
Leave PoS as is.
Change Obliteration into a cleave skill for 2 mobs. Freeze your focus targets heart, dealing 100% damage to main target and 50% damage to off-target while leaving a dot that explodes after 30sec for 100k to all mobs.

[Raiz]

I've raided ToS yesterday playing unholy - was being #1-2 spot constantly.

I was always one of the top few (usually top 3) DPS classes in NH Heroic and I was having a tough time hitting the middle of the DPS pack tonight.

Can we, please, stop that ? It's too relative. You can't expect us to understand where do you fare by making those statements.

[Baddok21]

Frost is good on KJ atleast.

Small victory's boys.

Neme i see that your running 2pc 4pc (with the ideal slots for all lucky guy) will you continue to keep going for higher TF T19 or is Frost cleave/AoE still passable without it.

Higher TF T19 shoulder/legs i mean, will you keep farm,ing it each week to keep the ilvl decently within grasp.

[Akusa202]

Whoever says there isn't a lot of movement hasn't done Maiden and Avatar, like holy fucking shit it's so aids. I almost think that a ring-less playstyle like bracers/chest or bracers/belt would be better just because the second HRW you never get to use because you gotta run the fuck away from the boss half the time. Seems like we need to reorient the playstyle toward the "short but effective" breath build e.g. high burst with bracers/chest and just fuck duration altogether. Though Blizz kinda fucked that a bit with BR nerf because the short & effective playstyle was mostly fishing for rimes and building a quick GS 10 stack inside of pillar/potion/bracers window.

8/9H for reference if that matters

Also @jashmaster depends on if Maiden is close by because you can cindy/breath cleave/Rime cleave and do like 250k more DPS, too bad Maiden damage doesn't mean anything. Link boss damage and I'll give you credit if more than 80% of that damage was on boss lmao.

On maiden don't pop breath on pull. Use pillar, but save breath for when you get your 10 stack of orbs after first teleport and use your double hrw there. The rest of fight should line up with breath. For avatar, if you stay near the maiden you can dps her while running out during rupture to keep breath going.

[hellhamster]

Returning player here, is BoS used like 5 secs on pull usually or am I doing it all wrong?

[RuneDK]

Returning player here, is BoS used like 5 secs on pull usually or am I doing it all wrong?

should have 70RP and a few runes ready to go.

[hellhamster]

should have 70RP and a few runes ready to go.

So what's a decent opener? BoS is making things clunky as fuck.