Frost DK Bottom Tier for ToS?

[Nemesquish]

But i didnt get better in the last few weeks. 6 weeks ago it was much harder to get nice %iles as frost, while our unholy dks got high percentiles though they were far behind me.

I saw my percentiles get much higher since 7.2.5. But i didnt get better. In 7.2, p3 in my raid was a 90%ile. Now p3 is a 99%ile.

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Twink = alt. Sorry i forgot that it isnt common.

Oh ok lol. Wasnt sure if there was some way to get 920 gear on a 101 or something.

[Deleted]

Well thats based on what? The tier is fine, my simc dps increased by 20% though i only gained 5 ilvl. I am doing fine in raids currently, beating some 930+ mains with my 922 twink and especially beating nearly always all 3 other unholy twinks.

You can perform quite decent as frost. For me, warcraftlogsdata isnt representative.

"Warcraftlogs with thousands and thousands of parses isnt representative and needs to be read carefully"

"my frost alt is beating some unholy alts, im doing fine in my raid"

You cant claim warcraftlogs isnt represantative and argue with your own (alt/twink) raid with ~20-30 Parses.

[Deleted]

"Warcraftlogs with thousands and thousands of parses isnt representative and needs to be read carefully"

"my frost alt is beating some unholy alts, im doing fine in my raid"

You cant claim warcraftlogs isnt represantative and argue with your own (alt/twink) raid with ~20-30 Parses.

As i already stated. Warcraftlogsdata is screwed by different skill levels. It is all about perception.

And if 1% of all DKs killing M Sass, 15% M Goroth, 30 H Goroth it is showing that unholy is more popular around top players. So log data isnt conclusive for everything.

And several hundred is nothing. It is the same reason why obliteration is 30% behind BOS in warcraftlogs: because only bad players use Obliteration.

I am using my personal experience just as example. According to warcraftlofs, unholy gained over 20% compared to frost, where is that value coming from?

[Laurathansal]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the 5% buff to all frost DK damage on the hotfix of 24th July? Or maybe I didn't see it mentioned here?

Frost DK damage seems good to me, especially when you make proper use of BoS. It works perfectly well on all fights in normal and Hc. On Mythic the only I've tried was Goroth and that was fine too, and I've seen some fights on MYthic and cannot see why BoS would work badly, especially with the amount of adds that we need to deal with.

Taking Freezing Fog over Horn of Winter reduces the max uptime of BoS from an average of 60 seconds down to 40-45 seconds (If you use 2 charges from HRW), but it buffs your overall damage, meaning you get more consistent damage outside of BoS, so you don't need those massive windows of standing still damaging the boss to make full use of it.

[waszak]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the 5% buff to all frost DK damage on the hotfix of 24th July? Or maybe I didn't see it mentioned here?

I think the reason is they buffed us up just to make sure our dps stays the same considering Hungering Rune Weapon fix (was ticking every 1 sec instead of 1.5 sec). I can feel the difference after the fix, it is much more difficult to keep BoS up if I HRW at ~30RP.

[Hoeth]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the 5% buff to all frost DK damage on the hotfix of 24th July? Or maybe I didn't see it mentioned here?

Frost DK damage seems good to me, especially when you make proper use of BoS. It works perfectly well on all fights in normal and Hc. On Mythic the only I've tried was Goroth and that was fine too, and I've seen some fights on MYthic and cannot see why BoS would work badly, especially with the amount of adds that we need to deal with.

Taking Freezing Fog over Horn of Winter reduces the max uptime of BoS from an average of 60 seconds down to 40-45 seconds (If you use 2 charges from HRW), but it buffs your overall damage, meaning you get more consistent damage outside of BoS, so you don't need those massive windows of standing still damaging the boss to make full use of it.

Pre-HRW nerf virtually everyone was taking Freezing Fog already and still routinely getting ~60 sec on BoS with SoN. With the HRW nerf and swapping from T19 to T20 BoS uptimes have fallen dramatically, but I still don't see much use in HoW. Even a nerfed FF and no T19 2-piece bonus still seems superior.

[Deleted]

Pre-HRW nerf virtually everyone was taking Freezing Fog already and still routinely getting ~60 sec on BoS with SoN. With the HRW nerf and swapping from T19 to T20 BoS uptimes have fallen dramatically, but I still don't see much use in HoW. Even a nerfed FF and no T19 2-piece bonus still seems superior.

We'll since SoN gives you a long BoS and reduced HRW cd that makes sense. However if you use chest+bracers and T20, HoW should and will be a big increase in dps

[taek]

Why are people blindly asserting that only good players switch to the FOTM? There is no data to support this. Look at the ratio of frost parses vs unholy parses in NH vs ToS. The switch is comical. Those were not all top 1% players.

Ion basically just confirmed this was happening, from the developer Q&A...

If a certain spec is seen as being slightly better, all of the best players will switch to that spec. This makes the other specs look significantly weaker, as the people logging other specs aren't as strong of players.

[Deleted]

Ion basically just confirmed this was happening, from the developer Q&A...

Yep. Or common sense.

I wonder how people can be sooo stubborn? What should have happened that made unholy 30% stronger relative zo frost? Unholy was buffed, but overall frost got a small buff too.

And it isnt about TOS. The current Nighthold data shows the same (unholy top, frost bottom).

[RuneDK]

Yep. Or common sense.

I wonder how people can be sooo stubborn? What should have happened that made unholy 30% stronger relative zo frost? Unholy was buffed, but overall frost got a small buff too.

And it isnt about TOS. The current Nighthold data shows the same (unholy top, frost bottom).

Frost was overall neutral not really a buff....a main issue for the tier is that none of the fights really are good for Frost. They aren't terrible but, certainly nothing like nighthold. Unholy was significantly buffed, but definitely not 30% as you and others have stated, it's from the people switching over. I am hoping with the 7.3 changes we at least go from the bottom to dead middle. I personally would love to see the two specs where Fury/Arms is.

With the Netherlight Crucible they are going to have to get their class balance on point and not let it go weeks without hotfixes like in ToS. They are pretty steep requirements...so hopefully they get their shit together for Antorus.

[Raiz]

I'm not sure if you all realize that the frost spec is only a few points behind the middle pack. What exactly are you looking for ? 1st spot ? Then there will always be someone complaining about being dead last.
It's simply impossible to have a perfectly balanced chart. Blizzard did a pretty godamn job for balancing all classes within 10% difference unless you compare the first with the last.
Not to mention most of us aren't in a top end guild where everyone in our guild are playing their class with a "perfect" rotation.
But hey, I guess I'm beating a dead horse with this thread.

[Divinexve]

Im pretty sure they're gonna be topping the meters in 7.3

[hellhamster]

Im pretty sure they're gonna be topping the meters in 7.3

Pls don't go around shouting from the rooftops.

[Divinexve]

Pls don't go around shouting from the rooftops.

Why not? Worried that people are going to start swarming the a spec thats as easy as beast master? Or that Blizzard will nerf them?

[hellhamster]

Why not? Worried that people are going to start swarming the a spec thats as easy as beast master? Or that Blizzard will nerf them?

I could give 2 shits about people picking the FOTM, so the latter.

[RuneDK]

Why not? Worried that people are going to start swarming the a spec thats as easy as beast master? Or that Blizzard will nerf them?

Lol, Frost is not even close to the level of easement that BM is....At least not BoS(which afaik is still top build)....now if you're arguing about MG....well I don't have a rebuttal for that. However, frost won't be the top dog in ToS, there's still fight mechanics going against it. It will be fine for most of them though.

[Divinexve]

Lol, Frost is not even close to the level of easement that BM is....At least not BoS(which afaik is still top build)....now if you're arguing about MG....well I don't have a rebuttal for that. However, frost won't be the top dog in ToS, there's still fight mechanics going against it. It will be fine for most of them though.

Meh who cares about tomb, the final raid of an xpac is what matters the most since it lasts the longest

[hellhamster]

Lol, Frost is not even close to the level of easement that BM is....At least not BoS(which afaik is still top build)....now if you're arguing about MG....well I don't have a rebuttal for that. However, frost won't be the top dog in ToS, there's still fight mechanics going against it. It will be fine for most of them though.

Bos might not even be the top build according to ptr SC.

[Deleted]

Bos might not even be the top build according to ptr SC.

Which one is better? All my sims showed an updated BOS 4% ahead.

[hellhamster]

Which one is better? All my sims showed an updated BOS 4% ahead.

It's still early, but try the latest APL with RA, Freezing Fog, Avalanche, Frozen Pulse, Obliteration.