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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    The soul flame nerf was to balance out the flat buff aff got, so Soul Flame wasn't hitting 20% harder.
    Only Soul Flame got nerfed by 50%

    It might be fun but that talent is toxic as shit. Affliction;s AOE is pretty crap and leans a lot on Soul Flame as a crutch. I'd rather they got rid of it and at the same time got rid of Seed of Corruption's stupid cast times and detonation requirements.

    Soul Flame is like so much else in affliction, it varies from being "meh" when you got a few adds to retarded when you have a lot. Soul Flame is unique in that it's power rises exponentially the more adds there are, because the adds themselves are damage sources. I think every other AOE in the game is a flat damage, obviously, you do more the more there is to hit, but it doesn;t multiply up.

    Yeah those massive Soul Flame cascades like the Arcway are kinda fun, but it creates yet more situations where aff breaks the averages all to fuck. It's also a right pain in the arse for Bolstering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    That's not quite where I was going with what I was saying. They have knobs for ST between drain / UA / MG. They always give themselves a dot modifier that serves as that knob. Where they balance ST vs MT is a matter of will, not something impossible to do.
    Yeah, if you read back I've pretty much said that, th eproblem is they are trapped by a design philosophy, or at like this month's design phiosophy, which is "it;s all about the dots".

    I totally agree, they have the tools, but the question is, do they have the will? I think aff would be better off with a bigger nerf to Agony and Corruption and tweaking up Malefic Grasp, Drain Soul or whatever. That would control multidot damage but prevent single target from sliding down too far. But then again, we've got this other thing going on where "we want classes/specs to be bette ror worse at certain bosses", which is a reversal to the old "bring the player not the class" idea, which itself evolved as a response to the "better or worse" original concept...which generally lead to stuff like class stacking and class kicking depending on a boss, and that was just plain bad.

    Theother big problem is this: they;d have to admit they got it wrong. Loads of people pointed out that if you put damage into dots then dot users become one of two things: monsters at multidotting, or bad at single target. We've been here before. It's why they brought Malefic Grasp back, for heaven's sake.

    I think the dot buff should have been smaller, with compensation elsewhere...Malefic Grasp, Drain Soul, UA. They could even make Siphon Life a spell you can only have one instance running

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Really when I get down to it its because of 2 things, 1 is its a pure dot spec which has obvious pitfalls. If it doesn't sustain higher than a direct damage spec then it doesn't bring anything of value since it can't do priority / burst dmg. The other thing is that there's so much power wrapped into on death mechanics. If they balance it to be good without add deaths, then it becomes a god with them, if they balance it around add deaths, then it'll be awful without them.
    This, basically. Can't argue with anything there. A spec that uses dots and has so much ramp has to have high sustain damage or there's just no point in taking it, because a burst spec that can do just a smuch sustained damage is better at almost everything else. It's not so bad now, but as progression goes one, affliction;s value will drop as adds die faster and faster.

    And yeah, the on-death procs souns all cool, but they are retardledly difficult to balance, again, the sweet spot is almost impossible to hit, how do you ensure aff is not crap in a fight with no adds, or stop it becoming a god when there are loads?

    Shadow Priests as powerful dot users have similar "issues", they are exceptionally powerful in the same fights we are...but no nerfs for them. But at least they don;t have that on-death-proc stuff hanging around their necks.

    I also suspect that aff won;t be anywhere near as "overpowered" in Mythic modes. There's a massive amount of cheesing and padding going on, and the main source of that is Absolute Corruption, like dumping it on the caged things in Inquisition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by severan View Post
    Its 1-2% loss on single target and 3-4% on multitarget. Not too big a deal. You
    can math it out looking at current parses.
    That's why people are describing it as a "political nerf". Let's hope they don;t keep salami slicing like this. The nerf really doesn;t chang emuch at all, the logs will look pretyt much the same. I repeat, Blizz don;t take those seriously, particularly the aggregate All Bosses, but they know players do.

    This nerf is as much about player perception as numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Just like I said. Affliction is in a much better place than Shadow Priests, tbh, even after the nerf. All the people crying about "logs don't matter" are just making excuses and never actually use their brains for introspection.
    Shadow Priests are doing perfectly well, in the fights where afflictin is strong SP's are doing extremely well also. SP dots are actually better than ours and easier to maintain on multiple targets, so long as they are reasonably close to each other.

    They got a talent that lets them apply both dots with one cast, and voidbolt extends them by 3 seconds on allthe targets they are running on. We have to do that manually, and there's a big penalty for letting Agony drop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    The "buffs" to demo locks will be to nerf aff/destro to be as crap as them lol. just as Blizzard usually does with talents.
    Sad but true. I suspect demo will parse better when players get the encounters down better. Movement really, really hurts demo and I guess with the raid so new, many players are running around alot more than they need to.

    On paper demo is exceptionally powerful for single target, if it can stand and turret.

  2. #222
    Demo is mediocre ST even when it gets to stand still all fight. It's simply undertuned for how much ramp up it has while being garbage at anything outside ST.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Demo is mediocre ST even when it gets to stand still all fight.
    No its not, the spec might get fucked by movement and be annoying to play with the pet haste spell and all those problems but its top tier ST if you get to tunnel, plenty of people have done amazing parses already that compete with warriors and rogues.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Shadow Priests are doing perfectly well, in the fights where afflictin is strong SP's are doing extremely well also. SP dots are actually better than ours and easier to maintain on multiple targets, so long as they are reasonably close to each other.

    They got a talent that lets them apply both dots with one cast, and voidbolt extends them by 3 seconds on allthe targets they are running on. We have to do that manually, and there's a big penalty for letting Agony drop.
    Shadow Priests are good at their niche. Affliction is better overall. That's not even considering you can just switch specs for single target, either.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Shadow Priests are doing perfectly well, in the fights where afflictin is strong SP's are doing extremely well also. SP dots are actually better than ours and easier to maintain on multiple targets, so long as they are reasonably close to each other.

    They got a talent that lets them apply both dots with one cast, and voidbolt extends them by 3 seconds on allthe targets they are running on. We have to do that manually, and there's a big penalty for letting Agony drop.
    You really don't take misery for raids, it takes shadow's single target from low tier to dumpster tier, and while you may have to reapply dots manually we have our void form to keep up which is far more punishing to drop out of early than letting agony drop off.

    Don't get me wrong, shadow is in a pretty good spot, it's just warlocks are in a better spot due to better damage, better survivability and less punished by mechanics.
    Last edited by Fleckens; Today at 12:47 AM.

  6. #226
    Only Soul Flame got nerfed by 50%
    Please source this? Because the official patch notes at https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-5-patch-notes say 20%.

  7. #227
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    I find every nerf there retarded @afflic.
    Every. Single. One.


    EDIT: even one of the buffs, LOL
    A drainlife buff, in pvp HAHAHHAHA
    Thanks for the heads up!

  9. #229
    Dreadlord Moggie's Avatar
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    Methinks y'all are reading too much into a 5% nerf. It isn't that noticeable. tbh.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    Please source this? Because the official patch notes at https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-5-patch-notes say 20%.
    Sorry, I was thinking about Wrath of Consumption. Whatever, the notes are out of date, the 20% buff turne dinto a 15% one. Or 10% for agony and corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    "Affliction must be all about the dots. Except PVP, of course"

    It's obvious why they're doing this. They do not want and have never wanted, ever, dot classes to be able to dump a bunch of dots on someone and have them die from them.

    They want PVP damage to be active damage, i.e. if you kill someone in PVP you have do do it mostly pro-actively, to actually be casting something at them. They don't want a player to die in PVP because an afflock drops Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life on someone and then sits back and watches the victim die with no further action required (of course, this presumes total imcompetence on the part of the victim, like, they stand and let themselves get dotted up and do nothing to mitigate after)

    So they've removed the damage from the instant cast fire and forget dots, and baked it into stuff with cast and channel times.

    Oh, and they favour melee classes for PVP and have done for years.

    Just be thankful PVE and PVP are now effectively separated, because otherwise we'd have got a mix of the changes and aff would be gutted for both.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    You really don't take misery for raids, it takes shadow's single target from low tier to dumpster tier, and while you may have to reapply dots manually we have our void form to keep up which is far more punishing to drop out of early than letting agony drop off.

    Don't get me wrong, shadow is in a pretty good spot, it's just warlocks are in a better spot due to better damage, better survivability and less punished by mechanics.
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Sorry, I was thinking about Wrath of Consumption. Whatever, the notes are out of date, the 20% buff turne dinto a 15% one. Or 10% for agony and corruption.

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    "Affliction must be all about the dots. Except PVP, of course"

    It's obvious why they're doing this. They do not want and have never wanted, ever, dot classes to be able to dump a bunch of dots on someone and have them die from them.

    They want PVP damage to be active damage, i.e. if you kill someone in PVP you have do do it mostly pro-actively, to actually be casting something at them. They don't want a player to die in PVP because an afflock drops Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life on someone and then sits back and watches the victim die with no further action required (of course, this presumes total imcompetence on the part of the victim, like, they stand and let themselves get dotted up and do nothing to mitigate after)

    So they've removed the damage from the instant cast fire and forget dots, and baked it into stuff with cast and channel times.

    Oh, and they favour melee classes for PVP and have done for years.

    Just be thankful PVE and PVP are now effectively separated, because otherwise we'd have got a mix of the changes and aff would be gutted for both.
    BM hunters. Can Afk behind pillar when pets solo you. Meanwhile our spell lock nerfed so we need to be in low with pet to trigger it in rated arena.

  13. #233
    Epic! Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    aff locks for sure have better have survivability than spriests.. he's right.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    Well.. yeah? One of the things warlocks are very well known for is their survivability.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    I'm far saltier about the PVP changes than the PVE ones, though I'm only a random BG scrub. It was glorious while it lasted and the whole nightfall/sow the seeds at choke points is still gonna be chucklesome - losing duration on corruption isn't a biggie in that context. Depending on BG I might go back to a more single target/execute spec with the buffs to UA and drain soul

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    Well.. yeah? One of the things warlocks are very well known for is their survivability.
    Maybe in BC, but since then not even remotely. Shadow has way more survivability. I would say only balance and elemental are the only ones with less survivability than a warlock now while the others have way more. Granted this is mostly from the PVP side where PVE it varies but is still similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    aff locks for sure have better have survivability than spriests.. he's right.
    Except they don't...... especially when their self healing which is the only thing that might make them have more than shadow is from an easily interruptible channel.

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