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  1. #241
    So, overall, rankings haven't really changed much despite the additional 5% nerf to corr/ago. As predicted, it wasn't really a "You need a nerf" but more of a "People are freaking out so we have to do something".

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    You beat me to it. As a destro lock i have one active damage mitigation spell and a pretty terrible baseline talent..

    Welcome to WoD Please enjoy your stay!

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    So, overall, rankings haven't really changed much despite the additional 5% nerf to corr/ago. As predicted, it wasn't really a "You need a nerf" but more of a "People are freaking out so we have to do something".
    Yes and now boomkins are gonna get it, they have basically a similar problem, good when there is adds to moonfire, middle pack single target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    Yeah you have self healing similar to shadow, you have a slightly worse defensive but you can save it for when you need it rather than as part of your dps rotation and you have demon skin which is a super version of our shield as it's 5 times as strong.

    Mage survivability is sweet though, no doubt about that, it's crazy how easy it is to stay alive on my mage alt due to it's defensive cooldowns and mobility.
    No self respecting shadow priest would use dispersion as a dps cooldown when there is abilities that could be solo soaked with it in progression.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by satori sartori View Post
    Yes and now boomkins are gonna get it, they have basically a similar problem, good when there is adds to moonfire, middle pack single target.

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    No self respecting shadow priest would use dispersion as a dps cooldown when there is abilities that could be solo soaked with it in progression.
    Sure if you had noone else to do it, but you'd pick other classes over shadow(hunters, mages to name the most obvious ones) for soaking mechanics as immunities are still far better than mechanics and so you'd be much better off as shadow using it to not lose your voidform and lose a ton of dps, no self respecting shadowpriest would drop out of voidform just to save dispersion for a rainy day. The biggest issue shadow has right now is that our horrible mobility with no tier 19 4 piece(only worse spec than us being ele shaman) combined with having to do much longer voidforms means that we are one of the worst choices for doing mechanics as our dps is simply hurt far too much by it.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    You beat me to it. As a destro lock i have one active damage mitigation spell and a pretty terrible baseline talent..
    But but locks are teh tanks of casters! Oh wait shadow can heal, shield, have a damage mitigation that is way better AND removes roots, has an activated heal on damage that also heals the group and has an interrupt that isn't tied to a pet that would otherwise not be used by the spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    Yeah you have self healing similar to shadow, you have a slightly worse defensive but you can save it for when you need it rather than as part of your dps rotation and you have demon skin which is a super version of our shield as it's 5 times as strong.

    Mage survivability is sweet though, no doubt about that, it's crazy how easy it is to stay alive on my mage alt due to it's defensive cooldowns and mobility.
    Soul Leech is closer to Vampiric Embrace because it actually requires you to do damage and if you're going to name Demon Skin instead I guess I'll name San'layn which brings VE right back to equal to Soul Leech.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    soul Leech is closer to Vampiric Embrace because it actually requires you to do damage and if you're going to name Demon Skin instead I guess I'll name San'layn which brings VE right back to equal to Soul Leech.
    Oh right I forgot you actually have the shield even without speccing into it and it's already way stronger than ours even before ours got nerfed to a silly 4% of max health at most, our vt does have the added ability that it heals us when not at max health but luckily you warlocks have that self healing built into other abilities, just take a look at logs and you can see that warlocks generally heal a bit less than shadow but shield itself a lot more and to higher healthpools which is amazing for progress, and that's taking into account that we even have to use an active shield ability for mobility in PW:S. And no even with San'layn you'd still be gaining a lot more than us, not to mention that we would be using an inferior dps talent just to have a tiny bit more self healing.

    Also vampiric embrace is our active skill, our passive healing only comes from vt ticks, but VE is a pretty damn unreliable cooldown to save yourself as it only heals a single target at a time and will often heal others instead of you if they are lower. It's not a terrible help and I tend to use it whenever I can as every bit helps but it doesn't heal for much more than a couple of heals from an actual healer. I will give you that dispersion is a better cooldown than unending resolve though, as while we do often have to use it offensively the much shorter cooldown and more powerful reduction as well as the healing does make it a really good spell.

    Overall both locks and shadow(and mages) are amongst the ranged dps that are best at surviving, locks and shadow the constant small damage while mages being good at spike damage. However to claim that warlocks have much worse survivability than shadow is pretty silly.

  7. #247
    Watching compositions for the ToS-race, I have to say those guilds in the top are damn good sports not stacking overpowered warlocks for the kills.

    Now, is there anyone that actually believes that if warlocks were really OVERPOWERED, they would not be used to a much greater extent? Exorsus and Method combined has 1 warlock, but hey, we are overpowered.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by noaim View Post
    Watching compositions for the ToS-race, I have to say those guilds in the top are damn good sports not stacking overpowered warlocks for the kills.

    Now, is there anyone that actually believes that if warlocks were really OVERPOWERED, they would not be used to a much greater extent? Exorsus and Method combined has 1 warlock, but hey, we are overpowered.
    Who knew top raiding guilds would only bring more than 1 affliction locks for the 2 multidot fights in the entire raid and then bench most of them on any other fight that requires good defensive cooldowns, strong single target, burst cooldowns.
    Really surprising shit right there.
    I think they need more nerfs.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    So, overall, rankings haven't really changed much despite the additional 5% nerf to corr/ago. As predicted, it wasn't really a "You need a nerf" but more of a "People are freaking out so we have to do something".
    Exactly. The devs don;t take those dps rankings seriously, but they know players do.

    Wanna bet Balance druids will get a small nerf this coming week? Then Shadow Priests?

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    Oh right I forgot you actually have the shield even without speccing into it and it's already way stronger than ours even before ours got nerfed to a silly 4% of max health at most, our vt does have the added ability that it heals us when not at max health but luckily you warlocks have that self healing built into other abilities, just take a look at logs and you can see that warlocks generally heal a bit less than shadow but shield itself a lot more and to higher healthpools which is amazing for progress, and that's taking into account that we even have to use an active shield ability for mobility in PW:S. And no even with San'layn you'd still be gaining a lot more than us, not to mention that we would be using an inferior dps talent just to have a tiny bit more self healing.

    Also vampiric embrace is our active skill, our passive healing only comes from vt ticks, but VE is a pretty damn unreliable cooldown to save yourself as it only heals a single target at a time and will often heal others instead of you if they are lower. It's not a terrible help and I tend to use it whenever I can as every bit helps but it doesn't heal for much more than a couple of heals from an actual healer. I will give you that dispersion is a better cooldown than unending resolve though, as while we do often have to use it offensively the much shorter cooldown and more powerful reduction as well as the healing does make it a really good spell.

    Overall both locks and shadow(and mages) are amongst the ranged dps that are best at surviving, locks and shadow the constant small damage while mages being good at spike damage. However to claim that warlocks have much worse survivability than shadow is pretty silly.
    Destro has much worse survivability than shadow, and arguably so does demo. The healing from soul link is beyond pathetic.

    Not every warlock is affliction, don't be a dumbass over this.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Destro has much worse survivability than shadow, and arguably so does demo. The healing from soul link is beyond pathetic.

    Not every warlock is affliction, don't be a dumbass over this.
    The healing affliction does is actually not that much, most of your survivability comes from soul leech and so the demo survivability should be better than affliction due to soul link and destro while having less self healing still has soul leech and has shorter cooldown on unending resolve.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    The healing affliction does is actually not that much, most of your survivability comes from soul leech and so the demo survivability should be better than affliction due to soul link and destro while having less self healing still has soul leech and has shorter cooldown on unending resolve.
    And unending resolve is worse than dispersion by a mile. and no, the healing from drain soul is fucking substantial, it's 24% of your health over the channel. It would take 15+ seconds of soul link healing to heal for what a drain soul does in one channel.

    Destro lock in pvp is complete garbage, spriest is just better in survival. And all casters except frost mage get bent over by melee anyways.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    And unending resolve is worse than dispersion by a mile. and no, the healing from drain soul is fucking substantial, it's 24% of your health over the channel. It would take 15+ seconds of soul link healing to heal for what a drain soul does in one channel.

    Destro lock in pvp is complete garbage, spriest is just better in survival. And all casters except frost mage get bent over by melee anyways.
    First of all, this thread is about pve tuning changes(I know they do also effect pvp but they can tune pvp separately now) and that's all i've been arguing about this entire time so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up pvp.

    but take a look at logs, soul leech is almost always the highest source of heal/shield for warlocks by a mile, this is just some rough data using all bosses but it's good enough for this example and looking more in depth on different bosses doesn't give much different results. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...S&difficulty=4

    As we can see demo and affliction both outheal/shield shadow, with demo also having soul link for a passive damage reduction making them really solid for surviving, as well as what I previous mentioned with your shield being able to go up to 15% max health vs ours which got nerfed from 8% to just 4%, giving you a lot more effective health, especially as demo. Destro on average is slightly lower but I'd say the max health advantage puts it pretty close if not slightly ahead of the value of our self healing. So again, both locks and shadowpriests are pretty close when it comes to survivability. I was perhaps a bit wrong to state that locks were flat out better at surviving though as now that I have looked more in depth into it it's pretty clear that while they are similar they have some differences, locks have better passive survivability, especially as demo, while shadow has the stronger active survivability although at a potential loss of dps.

    Although to get back on topic, as warlock, shadowpriest or mage I think we can all be pretty happy with our current situation in ToS.

  14. #254
    I'd agree for spriest/destro/aff. Demo I still think is a dumpster fire spec completely bereft of identity after it was scavenged to craft the demonhunter class.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    I'd agree for spriest/destro/aff. Demo I still think is a dumpster fire spec completely bereft of identity after it was scavenged to craft the demonhunter class.
    That's fine, although not sure what class fantasy/mechanics has to do with survivability.

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