1. #1

    Reverse Entropy 7.2.5

    Hey fellow locks!

    Ok apart from the fact that no guide anywhere is really up to date with all the new stuff, I'd like to request ur help on this.

    Ok so far we know that Reverse Entropy is the least good talent on that row (as far as dps goes) but on 7.2.5 the dmg was increased further by 5% more, so now is 10% for Chaos Bolt and rain of fire.

    Now it probably remains the least dps talent, on theory at least, but does anyone have any simdata or anything to compare the difference in dps (which is probably less now) compared to the other 2 talents.

    So far I am getting almost as decent results from it , but I have a good amount of haste and dont lifetap at all on the rotation( I may not perform the ELT rotation on 100% though..) so was pretty curious if anyone tested this solid.

    My stats is 20% crit, 35% haste, 38% mastery and 6% versa on 905 ilvl currently.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Atsui; 2017-06-19 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Try here....
    lockonestopshop.com

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cobz715 View Post
    Try here....
    lockonestopshop.com
    Don't think they have good sims.

    Supremacy is the highest simming 1 and 2 target option, closely followed by Service. Once 3 consistent targets are in play Sacrifice starts to pull ahead.
    Sacrifice and its splash AoE is currently not viable even on 4 targets (or so it seems; imp from GoServ is still better), plus Supremacy doesn't sim better than Service.

    Although I may be biased due to not using GoSup a lot.
    Last edited by Aminally; 2017-06-19 at 01:36 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aminally View Post


    Sacrifice and its splash AoE is currently not viable even on 4 targets (or so it seems; imp from GoServ is still better), plus Supremacy doesn't sim better than Service.

    Although I may be biased due to not using GoSup a lot.
    The talent tier my post refers to is the Reverse Entropy - Eradication - Empowered Lifetap

    Not the grimoires...

    Appreciate replies regardless

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cobz715 View Post
    Try here....
    lockonestopshop.com
    Thx that seems useful. Assuming the sims presented are accurate ( it says they are 7.2.5) the dps difference is less than 20k for ELT and more thouh ( which makes for single target) for Eradication.

    Just feel like the ELT with Burning rush is a real suicide build lol, so wanted to see how much extra survivability u'd have and dps loss if opting this for Progress for KABOOM MECHANICS.

    Will test further thx

  5. #5
    Don't forget that you have:
    - reduced CD on Unending Resolve;
    - Soul Leech;
    - that who-knows-how-it-is-called artifact trait that reduces incoming damage after Life Tap;
    - static DR from reworked Mastery;
    - random DR from reworked Mastery.

    ELT is usually not a problem for healers; as for Burning Rush, you almost always can swap it for instant spells during movements + Demonic Circle + Demon Skin/Dark Pact, which can save you (esp. during progression).

  6. #6
    Personal advice :
    Take 5 minutes to learn how to use https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/talents
    Use Warcraftlog to have "real" data : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=1867

    ELT will remain the best talent for AoE (since RE doesn't affect incinerate / cata)
    => use a WeakAura to help you manage it (for example : playing a sound when time < 5s and print something on the screen when not present).
    => Learn to use it at the right moment : when moving to get stack, you can use it because you know that a raid cd will top your hp (and you also have the dmg reduction from the trait).

    In simulation, i got a 5% differences beetween the best ST build (Erad / CDF) and the easiest one (RE / SC) or (Erad / SC).
    If you feel lost in your rotation while learning the fight, use the easiest build

  7. #7
    Building off of what Stryg said,
    Talent choices will differ from play-style and legionaries. If you do not keep ELT up at 100%, then it will not improve your dps. Personally, I rather run RE due to the mana refund, I can take LT out of my rotation.
    Sim yourself and be realistic about the results, go to raid finder or normal pugs and see how you do in the live-environment.
    Please do one thing on the forums, read the whole post first, form an opinion, and then state whether you agree or disagree.

  8. #8
    Really appreciate all ur useful tips guys.

    Currently I use RE + cdf for single and RE + fire n brimstone for aoe. Now for aoe there is a debate between FNB ans Cata but I personally love FNB especially for M+ . Depending on targets and with backdraft u just conflag into incinerate and often dont have to incinerate twice to throw in a Rain of Fire, so in that regard, while situational the extra shard generation is amazing. Ofc, I assume ELT would provide the same increase so yeah RE doesnt rovide anything significant there.

    Appreciate all the replies so far

    - - - Updated - - -

    Simmed with raidbots , but indeed the FNB spec for aoe, the dps difference is truly minimal between ELT and RE since they both buff ROF 10% , so I guess for aoe we could perhaps consider RE "viable".

    So guess I'd better practise Eradicstion for ST now then. For ST the dps difference is truly visible.

    Thx again for the lots of useful info guys

    Will test more in-gamw

  9. #9
    For some reason I cant see the previous post so just wanna thank u guys for all the useful info n links here.

    Will test further in-game

  10. #10
    from pure dps standpoit RE loses out to ELT/Erad BUT quality of life RE is pure gold! For single target i actually run belt/ring with Erad and RE just because im a lazy fuck and dont want to think about ELT (even though i have a huge ass weakaura for it)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aminally View Post
    Don't think they have good sims.
    Care to elaborate?

  12. #12
    Good sims? Do you really think simming is going to help you more in any way than comple guide made by actual person and not computer program that generated some should-be-trusted-numbers?
    Players who made those guides on lockonestopshop.com are much better players than you or me and their data is backed up with actual testings in ptr/live environment, opinions, tips and tricks from warlock discord where numerous players were involved.
    Why is it always players who ask for help with talents/stats/item builds etc degrade those who are actually trying to help whole warlock player base. Instead of being thankful that we have these resources out there, first thing you do is question them, while you, yourself, are clueless.
    "Ahhh ahhhhh, ahhh, yeah, ahhhh, YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh" Jenna Jameson

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    I'll try.

    There is (was) a quite common (mis)conception that Destro should always use GoServ in ST/Cleave scenarios, and my personal experience/tests on live tend to show that it is still so. Thus seeing the statement that GoSup is a Talent-to-Go for (farming) destro in the aforementioned guide made me believe that something went wrong with sims (spell priority/rotation, buffs, etc.). Further checking of simming profiles showed that nothing is wrong with sims, which means that my view on destro is a bit outdated.

    Thus I should probably apologize for confusing community with my opinion.

    I apologize.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aminally View Post
    I'll try.

    There is (was) a quite common (mis)conception that Destro should always use GoServ in ST/Cleave scenarios, and my personal experience/tests on live tend to show that it is still so. Thus seeing the statement that GoSup is a Talent-to-Go for (farming) destro in the aforementioned guide made me believe that something went wrong with sims (spell priority/rotation, buffs, etc.). Further checking of simming profiles showed that nothing is wrong with sims, which means that my view on destro is a bit outdated.

    Thus I should probably apologize for confusing community with my opinion.

    I apologize.
    GoSup is confusing because it's sort of in the same boat as RB. RB sims ahead of BD but is insanely hard to actually pull off in a way that it comes out ahead, especially during progress.

    GoSup sims slightly ahead of GoServ, but who honestly wants to swap pets to trigger LoF? On top of that, quoted from the guide: "In a progression raiding scenario you may want to use Service over Supremacy since it offers a lot more on-demand burst damage potential which can be useful."
    So in the end GoServ will still see more use than GoSup for usability reasons as the gap between the two is quite small.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I think there'll be a shitstorm.

    period.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aminally View Post
    I'll try.

    There is (was) a quite common (mis)conception that Destro should always use GoServ in ST/Cleave scenarios, and my personal experience/tests on live tend to show that it is still so. Thus seeing the statement that GoSup is a Talent-to-Go for (farming) destro in the aforementioned guide made me believe that something went wrong with sims (spell priority/rotation, buffs, etc.). Further checking of simming profiles showed that nothing is wrong with sims, which means that my view on destro is a bit outdated.

    Thus I should probably apologize for confusing community with my opinion.

    I apologize.
    It's all good! Just wanted to check where you were getting it from.

    Glad it's not outdated already!

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