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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    Hm, the part with "one of the Legion's masters has fallen at last" is interesting, could mean that Archimonde is indeed still alive.
    The second is Sargeras.

    Funny video:

  2. #442
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    They did forshadow it in the 7.2 cinematic. His argument with Sargeras shows that all he has done so far was nothing but bravado. Still kinda rushed and shit writing, but it doesn't come completely out of left field.
    Yeah, that's what I said: they dropped it in the trailer. But after a fucking decade since we last saw him, you'd expect there to be atleast some foreshadowing, and not just a trailer from 3 months ago.

    In my earlier post I pointed out the bravado bit was completely retarded as well. They obliterated countless worlds and sentient lives, one planet shows proper resistance and suddenly it's all meaningless? It's so lame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Come on, Kil'jaeden always was like this. He hunted down the Draenei because his feelings, he made Ner'zhul the Lich King because his feelings, he turned Illidan his agent because his feelings.
    The last two are speculation at best.

    Ner'zhul was a pawn, selected because he had stature amongst the society which Kil'jaeden and his master sought to corrupt. He bailed on the orcs when Sargeras ordered as much, and only when he had use for Ner'zhul did he decided for him to have another purpose.
    Illidan was also a pawn, selected for his cunning and history with the Legion.

    If either of those had anything to do with feelings at all, I really doubt Sargeras would give a fuck about 'em.
    "Hey boss, uhm maybe we should let this Ner'zhul guy go. He was just a pawn, he served his purpose and we have no personal vendetta against him. In fact, him destroying Draenor only made our work easier for us."
    "The fuck you talking about? Our purpose is to scour the Dark Beyond clean of all life. This insignificant creature will not be spared just because you feel remorse."

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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    demons are thinking, feeling creatures.

    they're inclined to chaotic behavior, but they still have individual personalities. i doubt becoming one erases your personality.

    it can just twist the way to feel.
    Not really. They're just physical embodiments of chaotic energy. Before Sargeras went rogue their purpose was to sow said chaos, which in itself is contradictory because chaos has no purpose.

    You can argue sentient races who became corrupted would still have some feelings left, but I doubt a mind consumed by chaos will give an honest confession in its final moments.
    Last edited by Beste Kerel; 2017-06-21 at 01:52 PM.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't think the Avatar of Sargeras worked like this though since it was literally used to pass his soul into the current guardian so it could wait until she had a baby to possess her son. I figure it's probably a fraction of his power but transported his whole soul. Soul doesn't always mean full power if you leave your body behind.
    Chronicles describes the avatar and the possessing force invading Aegwynn and Medivh as a sliver of the true Sargeras. Sargeras is also in communication with his demonic forces during all this. He isn't absent from the Legion during Aegwynn's long life. Kil'jaeden meets with him during the attack on Shattrath. It's when Sargeras decides to use the orcs for taking Azeroth. Medivh is described only as a corrupted vessel. It is literally stated "The Legion's lord took this opportunity to transfer a portion of his spirit to the mage's soul". Not his whole soul. It's described to be but a small portion, in several places.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Someone at BioWare said it best a couple of years ago:
    "You could give the player a [Magic Hat] that would give them the exact gaming experience they ever wanted, and they would still complain about the colour of the hat."

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    Not really. They're just physical embodiments of chaotic energy. Before Sargeras went rogue their purpose was to sow said chaos, which in itself is contradictory because chaos has no purpose.

    You can argue sentient races who became corrupted would still have some feelings left, but I doubt a mind consumed by chaos will give an honest confession in its final moments.
    lothraxion proves that pure demons are free thinking as well.

    the whole lore of nathrezim does, really. they were enlightened, and worshiped shadow. they had a civilization.

  5. #445
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    lothraxion proves that pure demons are free thinking as well.

    the whole lore of nathrezim does, really. they were enlightened, and worshiped shadow. they had a civilization.
    No, it proves a 'purified' being would be capable of it, demon or no.

    The Nathrezim are cunning demons, but all they do is literally for the sake of chaos. Worshipping darkness and destroying civilisations from within is their way to go about it.
    If the Nathrezim were actually capable of enlightened thought, they'd consider other pursuits than evil. Alas, they are born of chaos, and only forced order can somewhat stabilise that concept.
    I really doubt proposing a Nathrezim concepts other than chaos are answered with politeness and compassion.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    No, it proves a 'purified' being would be capable of it, demon or no.

    The Nathrezim are cunning demons, but all they do is literally for the sake of chaos. Worshipping darkness and destroying civilisations from within is their way to go about it.
    If the Nathrezim were actually capable of enlightened thought, they'd consider other pursuits than evil. Alas, they are born of chaos, and only forced order can somewhat stabilise that concept.
    I really doubt proposing a Nathrezim concepts other than chaos are answered with politeness and compassion.
    like i said, they are predisposed to chaotic behavior. we in life are born and raised to follow the law, for the most part. we know that following the law is the right thing to do. some of us, discover other, not very good paths.

    nathrezim come into existence with an inborn inclination towards chaos and most probably follow that instinct. but clearly they are capable of free and rational thought, because lothraxion exists. he had to have turned to the light willingly, or he wouldn't be what he is.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Gremlin View Post
    So do you think he'll have his own cinematic?
    Probably, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  8. #448
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    clearly they are capable of free and rational thought, because lothraxion exists. he had to have turned to the light willingly, or he wouldn't be what he is.
    That hasn't been confirmed. He could've been captured and experimented upon by the Army of Light for all we know.

    Regarding the same matter, I really doubt the Ashbringer crystal willingly became cleansed.
    And before you start arguing that Ashbringer isn't alive, it doesn't matter.

    You keep arguing about demons as if they are humanoids, but they're not.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    That hasn't been confirmed. He could've been captured and experimented upon by the Army of Light for all we know.

    Regarding the same matter, I really doubt the Ashbringer crystal willingly became cleansed.
    And before you start arguing that Ashbringer isn't alive, it doesn't matter.

    You keep arguing about demons as if they are humanoids, but they're not.
    you can't be an unwilling servant of the light. that's not how light power works.

    if lothraxion didn't believe in himself and his faith in the light, it wouldn't answer his call.

  10. #450
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    you can't be an unwilling servant of the light. that's not how light power works.

    if lothraxion didn't believe in himself and his faith in the light, it wouldn't answer his call.
    Show me an exact statement regarding this.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    Show me an exact statement regarding this.
    "The Light is the source of all life in the cosmos.[7] Summoned by willpower or faith in one's ability to do so"

    that's the only direct qoute from wowpedia i can find. it's also mentioned that the light cannot be stolen from a being that posses light abilities. the blood elves thought they were taking m'uru's light by force, but he was willingly giving it.

    you can use the light for evil or good, it doesn't seem to care which. but unless you hold the faith in yourself, or your religion, you cannot wield it.

  12. #452
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    "The Light is the source of all life in the cosmos.[7] Summoned by willpower or faith in one's ability to do so"

    that's the only direct qoute from wowpedia i can find. it's also mentioned that the light cannot be stolen from a being that posses light abilities. the blood elves thought they were taking m'uru's light by force, but he was willingly giving it.

    you can use the light for evil or good, it doesn't seem to care which. but unless you hold the faith in yourself, or your religion, you cannot wield it.
    That first sentence alone is heavily out-of-date. Demons weren't created by Light, neither were Old Gods. Unless the Light influences everything to a degree, that statement is false.
    Furthermore, according to that statement it shouldn't be possible for demons to summon the Light then.

    If Light cannot be stolen, then Corrupted Ashbringer is a falsehood that never happened.

    Fair, we could theorize that Lothraxion summoned forth the Light for the purpose of evil, but demons aren't creations of Light unless stated as much by Blizzard.
    What source was [7] anyway?

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    That first sentence alone is heavily out-of-date. Demons weren't created by Light, neither were Old Gods. Unless the Light influences everything to a degree, that statement is false.
    Furthermore, according to that statement it shouldn't be possible for demons to summon the Light then.

    If Light cannot be stolen, then Corrupted Ashbringer is a falsehood that never happened.

    Fair, we could theorize that Lothraxion summoned forth the Light for the purpose of evil, but demons aren't creations of Light unless stated as much by Blizzard.
    What source was [7] anyway?
    light is the source of life in the cosmos, the great dark, the universe in which azeroth exists. cosmos doesn't count the twisting nether. the source for that [7] is the chronicle. sorry, i didn't even really mean to include that part.

    it's possible for demons to call upon the light because they have faith in something. that's literally all that's needed. shivarra have faith in the legion's cause, and as such have been seen calling upon the light in BC.

    " A'dal revealed that M'uru's imprisonment was foretold by Prophet Velen of the draenei; M'uru willingly accepted his role in the events that unfolded, knowing that it would lead to the elves' redemption and lead them away from the dark fate awaiting Kael'thas and his minions"

    i believe it's said further somewhere in game specifically that it couldn't actually be stolen from him.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    The second is Sargeras.

    Funny video:
    Most funny thing is that people don't understand that this dude hate WoW for months (or years), but his channel won't survive without it. This is so toxic it hurts. And please, warn everybody who video it is before posting it.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Most funny thing is that people don't understand that this dude hate WoW for months (or years), but his channel won't survive without it. This is so toxic it hurts. And please, warn everybody who video it is before posting it.
    Why? I see no sense in warning anyone about him? It's just a funny video - that's all. I'm not going to the cinema after reading about director personal life.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Why? I see no sense in warning anyone about him? It's just a funny video - that's all. I'm not going to the cinema after reading about director personal life.
    Sure, I just need to be more careful next time. It's not about his personal life, I just don't want contribute to his shitty content.

  17. #457
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    light is the source of life in the cosmos, the great dark, the universe in which azeroth exists. cosmos doesn't count the twisting nether. the source for that [7] is the chronicle. sorry, i didn't even really mean to include that part.

    it's possible for demons to call upon the light because they have faith in something. that's literally all that's needed. shivarra have faith in the legion's cause, and as such have been seen calling upon the light in BC.

    " A'dal revealed that M'uru's imprisonment was foretold by Prophet Velen of the draenei; M'uru willingly accepted his role in the events that unfolded, knowing that it would lead to the elves' redemption and lead them away from the dark fate awaiting Kael'thas and his minions"

    i believe it's said further somewhere in game specifically that it couldn't actually be stolen from him.
    There it is, not counting the Twisting Nether, which is exactly the place demons are from.
    Ironically, Chronicle does mention the Nether is a realm where both Light and Void bled together, so theoretically speaking demons being born from Light and therefor wielding the Light like you said is feasible and mine being mistaken, but immediately debunked by saying that Light is the source of all life except the Nether.

    The contradictions are great in Blizzard, as usual.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    There it is, not counting the Twisting Nether, which is exactly the place demons are from.
    Ironically, Chronicle does mention the Nether is a realm where both Light and Void bled together, so theoretically speaking demons being born from Light and therefor wielding the Light like you said is feasible and mine being mistaken, but immediately debunked by saying that Light is the source of all life except the Nether.

    The contradictions are great in Blizzard, as usual.
    "Light and Void bled together at the borders of this realm, throwing it into turmoil with chaotic magics.[8][9] Life would arise in the Twisting Nether too in the form of the first demons, born as a result of this clash between the two energies.[10] The Twisting Nether became home to an infinite number of demonic beings, most of whom sought only to destroy life and devour the energies of the livings.[8] Where the Twisting Nether bled into the the Great Dark Beyond, demons would pour and destroy civilizations and worlds.[10]"

    so, light is partially responsible for their existence. sorry, i didn't mean to make it sound as absolute as i did.

    "Not all demons are evil either, many are neutral such as the observers, who serve anyone that would allow them to observe the mysteries of the universe and feed upon all sorts of magic,[7] or the demons serving the Illidari and the Black Harvest against the Legion.

    However, the vast majority of them joined the Fallen Titan Sargeras and his Burning Legion, with only one purpose: destroying all world-souls in the universe."

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    oh, this is a pretty definitive quote on whether or not they have free minds

    "Chaos, however, does not come easily to all demons - some struggle with the ways of the Burning Legion. That is why some carry an enchanted orb that invokes the rage required of any good demon. It is not known how the orbs are made, or who makes them.[22] Others decided to not follow the Legion at all and serve their own agendas, or band with like-minded people such as the Shivarra serving Illidan Stormrage against Sargeras."

  19. #459
    Bloodsail Admiral Beste Kerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    So, light is partially responsible for their existence. sorry, i didn't mean to make it sound as absolute as i did.

    "Not all demons are evil either, many are neutral such as the observers, who serve anyone that would allow them to observe the mysteries of the universe and feed upon all sorts of magic,[7] or the demons serving the Illidari and the Black Harvest against the Legion.

    However, the vast majority of them joined the Fallen Titan Sargeras and his Burning Legion, with only one purpose: destroying all world-souls in the universe."

    "Chaos, however, does not come easily to all demons - some struggle with the ways of the Burning Legion. That is why some carry an enchanted orb that invokes the rage required of any good demon. It is not known how the orbs are made, or who makes them.[22] Others decided to not follow the Legion at all and serve their own agendas, or band with like-minded people such as the Shivarra serving Illidan Stormrage against Sargeras."
    Yeah that exact quote is where I got it from too. It's been a while since I read Volume I.

    So you were right, but in my defense a shame that you have to read a book to know about this.

    None of this changes the fact that Blizzard writing is inconsistent garbage regardless of how you look at any matter regarding Wacraft lore.

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