What I would do if I were the lead PvP developer:

[Deleted]

Wow simply can never be balanced. It would have to became "the world of one class" and even then there's lag and ms that makes it unbalanced. If you say otherwise I'd like you to show me the math for dmg vs range vs cc capability vs resources vs etc. Yes, it can get close to "balanced" and that would mean making every class and spec avaible -> pretty close to being godlike. Even then what avaible means? Good in arenas? bgs? worldpvp? Sounds like making a bike that can fly, swim and shoot.

As far as World pvp goes, it relies on geared PvPers ganking "Newbies" who never wanted to join the pvp (remove flying comments and such stuff).

Personally I think they should make "Total pvp servers" which you could server-hop to and it would include no flying, but better rewards for pvp (world pvp titles / skins) achievements while playing and killing on those servers. That way casual players don't have to deal with 12m hp tanks buffed with weird stuff and pvpers could match pvp people / guilds in large open island pvp called "Broken isles" and be rewarded for it.

ps: for those who say Wotlk was the most balanced, pretty few specs were dead or nonexistent.

[Deleted]

1. I disagree. Instanced PvP is an in-your-face alternative to world pvp. People like spontaniety but IMO they like consistenty more, at least in the context of "Hey I want to PvP today." Today, people go where people are, and people are typically queued for a BG.

2. CRZ is a response to the swelling and contraction of players across hundreds of fractured realms. You didn't address the reality of a not CRZ/Sharded WoW. How do you tackle so many realms that are either dead or with huge faction imbalances?

3. What do you have against arenas?

4. From memory, I know I didn't like the old honor system because of what it took to hit HW/GM. The industry has seen that fewer and fewer modern players are interested in this model. Esports have nothing to do with it. That's what tournament realms are for. So yeah, try again.

5. This is the weakness of a wall of text that you want to hold as a discussion. There's too much to talk about. I suggest bringing up one component at a time. At the design table, you typically don't lump everything in and try to discuss all of it at once. You'll find yourself throwing away a lot of ideas that could have been cool if you spaced out its presentation.

6. So why not just suggest entirely separate PvP realms since people like it? The current system is as close as we've gotten, with instanced PvP being an entirely separate thing from the outside world.
Also, players aren't equal in instanced PvP. There are still skilled and unskilled players out there, organized and otherwise.

7. Part of the hypothetical is to not be blind about ability bloat. We've already experienced generations of WoW where there were too many useless buttons as well as the envy of "my talent is a pvp talent now, that sucks." If you want all abilities to be available regardless of the setting, doesn't that contradict your ideas of having a pvp talent like system like you mention elsewhere?

8. I think you missed my point. We have world quest objectives which do far more to get players out in the world. Also what's stopping players from using WQGF to easily queue for a pvp objective just like now? On top of that, if you want to get rid of CRZ/sharding, this "feature" would be very unfun with realm balance the way it is now.

9. With no reward, it's easy for me to choose the activity with a reward (instanced pvp) over the simple joy of killing. And again, realm balance wouldn't make this fun.

10. PvP talents exist now. That's what you're basically suggesting. And off the top of my head an addon can set up a profile to switch your buttons in a given situation.

11. Regardless of the difference, that's still the reality of things. Thank social media for that one.

12. At least Ashran had a reason to visit. If players were interested in nothing but killing, WPvP wouldn't be in the state it's in now. But because there are other alternatives to a WPvP zone that offer rewards, are you certain that players would abandon that for receiving little to nothing?

13. Excuse the analogy. But these ideas have way too many holes to be brought up in a public forum, but I acknowledge the intent here. I very strongly suggest that you take one idea at a time and refine it. Otherwise you'll get the same responses you're getting now. You can think that I'm trying to start a fight but I'm challenging your ideas in an effort that you'll come back with better ones, but atm just defending your ideas as if you're "right."

Consider the players, not just YOUR players. It's in your interest to keep as many of them on as possible.

1. It's okay if you want to disagree but the facts are that instanced PvP was created in response to the lag complaints by players in WPvP. Players trying to level up would lag a lot if there was a huge 40v40 fight going on in the area, servers would even crash sometimes if more got involved. Instanced PvP was used to address that issue and worked well.

2. Merge remaining populations together under new realm names, they will be from different realms but after a while of mixing they will get to know each other and create brand new communities.

3. I consider arenas to be a MOBA element and thus not relevant to WoW PvP since it's a MMORPG. I would rather the focus on arenas be transferred back to actual MMORPG PvP.

4. No, they wanted to turn WoW into an Esport to remain competitive in the gaming market, hence the reason for the sudden overhaul of abilities and gems plus the new game mode called arenas. I don't think you're understanding that the reality is actually that simple lol.

5. Fair enough but the average reader here would've said "too long, didn't read" so I decided to shove it all in at once. Also see point number 13 for more on this as well.

6. I also agree on creating separate PvP realms so we can be left alone by the PvE players and be free to change the game to our will without PvE developers interfering. Skill is something that is meant to be improved over time, that is the point of the game and that isn't imbalance. Skilled players are those who know how to play and unskilled players are those who do not know how to play, they can learn to play and get better at this game. In fact, unskilled players often demand that they be given equal gear to good players and when they do receive their wish, they end up getting beaten anyway. This would just remove an obstacle and make things much easier to jump into and play.

I personally hate having to grind for gear before being able to PvP, some people may feel like it's progress but I feel that true progress is where your skills are honed and you become better at the game as you learn to beat players more effectively.

7. It does contradict it in a sense where if it was based in reality that the PvE developers were able to interfere that I would need to use Holinka's honor talent system to circumvent their interference. But the whole point of returning all these abilities and talents is so the game becomes harder to play, not easier. That's the whole goal of a game, to challenge the player themselves to win the game.

8. The players go out into the world for these world quests because of the rewards they give, they do not require much thought or gathering of friends to complete, they do not lead you directly to faction cities or towns where other players will be waiting there to defend it, they simply lead to a batch of PvE mobs to slay and you leave afterwards.

I would be okay with World Quests if they were to provide rewards in exchange for killing X players at these positions, vice versa the opposing side will be able to complete a world quest to defend these areas and get the same rewards.

Also, creating new world objectives like the one in the Eastern Plaguelands, Halaa or Silithus would make for an excellent addition to the game with a similar system to old AV where you can produce reinforcements that will give a faction an increased amount of honor gains or something, and it's a constant struggle between the factions to produce more reinforcements than the other.

Again, I know about the faction imbalance problem and I believe it's a problem because of how streamers influence players to change factions for the new "FOTM" race choice. So I don't really know a solution to that problem at the moment, perhaps you could suggest one?

Please see point number 2 for my response to the CRZ/sharding issue.

9. You will get rewarded for the WPvP island activity though? I said in the original post that each rank will provide you with a different tier of tyranny enchant, elite set, and a tabard plus you will gain a new title for each rank earned through grinding marks of honor from slaying players, 1,000 marks is the requirement to rank up once.

10. Honor talents do exist now, I never claimed they were new or anything. I was saying that we could use honor talents to bring back the old WOTLK talent system, the whole capability to create hybrid specs out of all 3 talent specs, like this: http://gnarlyguides.com/wp-content/u...wow-3.3.5a.jpg

That would simply replace the current useless honor talents that we have and MAYBE could replace the PvE talents as well, so you could have a completely different talent system to the one you'd use in PvE. I believe it would allow PvPers more room and flexibility to adjust their stats and abilities to their own gameplay style.

11. Sort of true.

12. Read point number 9.

13. I completely agree with what you're writing here, I just came up with these ideas on a whim and they're not very refined at all, I agree. It's just that I wanted to quickly tell people about it before I forgot about it, and now that it's here, perhaps people could add their input and help refine some of the ideas they really like and discard or change the ideas they don't like? Wouldn't that be nicer to have?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I at least used some facts and evidence to show you that people do prefer the old WoW and there are thousands of threads made by different players every month about bringing back some element of old WoW. This goes to show that the older versions worked well and was well liked, hence the reason why I want to bring back old elements into the game while not making it Vanilla in a sense.

Well, I'm looking at 4 pages of people telling you how bad your ideas are...how's that for facts and evidence?

I honestly couldn't care less about PvE and the majority of players who PvP do not care about PvE, there may be a small minority of you but that's not really relevant.

Please keep PvE out of this discussion.

You brought PVP into discussion by trying to introduce changes that affect PVE...like removing flying, talent systems, reforging, etc.

[toff]

1. Bounty System - that sounds amazing. I'd like to see that idea explored further.

2. Introduce more world PvP zones - timed events like in outlands along with specific areas that CRZ automatically goes into affect.

3. Keep flying, however, allow for players to initiative PvP while flying, thus knocking a player off their high horse .

4. World Bosses that aren't of LFR level along with the ability to fight players of the same faction when you're not grouped together. The fact that world bosses are free loot is just mind boggling. I'd like to see the Kazak / Azergos days come back.

5. Keep the honor talents, this is the reward for doing PvP.

6. Provide PvE incentives for doing PvP, it'd be outstanding if the gear was identical.

7. Institute Major City raids as events, however, don't let either faction know that event is happening. IE: a huge raid just shows up in org

8. Have players drop AP after being killed by another player

9. Introduce longer raid entrances that are FFA PvP outside of your group / raid. (Faction-less World PVP) Some of the best days where the trip to Molten Core. I'd be outstanding to see this available again.

10. Harder world environments to navigate with outstanding LOS. For example, back in the Molten Core days - unless you were good and jumping the chains - DEATH.

[Deleted]

Well, I'm looking at 4 pages of people telling you how bad your ideas are...how's that for facts and evidence?

Not true, I have 3 or 4 posters who like my ideas in here.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Not true, I have 3 or 4 posters who like my ideas in here.

That doesn't make what I said untrue. I didn't say every post was telling you your ideas are bad...I said there are four pages of people telling you that your ideas are bad. There are more people here telling you that your ideas are bad then the few posts that support some of your ideas.

[SoulSoBreezy]

*responses*

1. Don't mistake your opinions as facts unless you can cite them.

2. Look at coalesced realms as they currently are. Is this enough? On top of that, we're already in regional megaservers thanks to cross realm tech. The proximity is already there, but players still value convenience (queuing up) over going to X area and hoping they can kick some dust up. You'll need to find a real solution other than cramming people together and seeing what happens. Because nothing could happen.

3. There's still an existing arena community that you will systemically abandon. How would you go about that process?

4. That still doesn't make a case for why the old honor system is "better."

5. One battle at a time. Notice how you're defending more than discussing.

6. Under this paradigm, you'll be fighting with other teams to make sure that pvp is given the same development time as what is most definitely a pve-dominant game. What case would you make to ensure that the other teams will give pvp the same support they give to pve?

7. Are you convinced that more buttons = better in every situation? Do you intend for WoW PvE to be more about counter-punching and being technical, or being faster paced with one bad global meaning the turning tide?

8. Remember, you've got to get players out in the world first. That means whatever's out there has to be more fun and rewarding than the next best thing, which means to compete with other game modes like your pvp island, instanced pvp, etc.
You have to compete with your own features.
My solution is in fact CRZ and sharding. Realm merging is a jackhammer disguised as a bandaid, and isn't effective at resolving realm imbalance.

9. My bad. It's easy to get lost in a wall of text =P.
I'm skeptical of the fun of this objectiveless ashran like place. It's basically a playground for already geared pvpers under your paradigm and for anyone lesser, it's lambs to the slaughter. The strong get stronger, the weak stay down, and we're back to 201X complaints.

10. IMO just "bringing back the old talents" is a bit unimaginative. I suggest fleshing that out a lot more to get people excited (reminder, one feature at a time).

11. Pretty true, but it'd take a book to really analyze the impact. The game adapted to the world around it. Not a lot of MMOs lasted this long with this many players still trucking along.

12. Also read point 9.

13. It comes off as preachy though. It's why I suggest talking about one topic at a time instead of submitting an impressively large wall of text for people to pick apart. It splits your time in as many different directions as points you made when you could just spend your energy talking about a pvp zone and turn that into potentially great idea, or to kill that off and move onto the next thing. Throwing everything down at once makes for opportunities that ideas are killed off too early. That wouldn't be nice to have.

Anyway this's my last reply. Have a good one.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make what I said untrue. I didn't say every post was telling you your ideas are bad...I said there are four pages of people telling you that your ideas are bad. There are more people here telling you that your ideas are bad then the few posts that support some of your ideas.

People like my ideas.

Plus, this is a thread for discussion, not a poll.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

People like my ideas.

Plus, this is a thread for discussion, not a poll.

I know it's a discussion. The discussion thus far has been dominated by people telling you your ideas are bad. Moreover, you still haven't been able to grasp the fact that, even if your ideas weren't terrible, the lead PVP designer doesn't have the authority to enact the changes that you want...especially those ones that will affect PVE.

If you want to discuss changes to PVP and solely to PVP...then make sure your ideas won't cross-over into the PVE realm.

Flying didn't kill WPVP. If people are using Flying Mounts to avoid WPVP...then they didn't want WPVP to begin with. Battlegrounds did more damage to WPVP by providing what most players view as a superior format for PVP. If the majority of players actually wanted more WPVP...there'd still be lots of it happening. Removing flying from Azeroth won't increase the amount of WPVP....it will only decrease the amount of players doing old content.

[Deleted]

I know it's a discussion. The discussion thus far has been dominated by people telling you your ideas are bad. Moreover, you still haven't been able to grasp the fact that, even if your ideas weren't terrible, the lead PVP designer doesn't have the authority to enact the changes that you want...especially those ones that will affect PVE.

If you want to discuss changes to PVP and solely to PVP...then make sure your ideas won't cross-over into the PVE realm.

Flying didn't kill WPVP. If people are using Flying Mounts to avoid WPVP...then they didn't want WPVP to begin with. Battlegrounds did more damage to WPVP by providing what most players view as a superior format for PVP. If the majority of players actually wanted more WPVP...there'd still be lots of it happening. Removing flying from Azeroth won't increase the amount of WPVP....it will only decrease the amount of players doing old content.

The majority of players who wanted WPvP quit during the period between Cataclysm release up until mid WOD where they lost 5.5 million subs.

There IS nobody left that wants WPvP because there's none left playing, they've either went to play on some private server or found a new game to stick to until the state of WoW improves, some won't even return.

So yes, if you mean the majority of players who don't want WPvP are the current new players who began during the period from MOP to WOD/Legion.. then yeah, you're actually right.

I honestly do not care about PvE, it is a dull side of WoW that PvP has suffered from for years just to please the PvE playerbase, a good example being Legion WPvP state.

My ideas are only terrible to the majority of you because you've grown up with arenas, of course you'll be biased against anything that involves butchering arenas. But let me ask you this; if you're very supportive of the idea of changing the game so it isn't like old WoW (Vanilla Honor System/WPvP era) anymore, then why are you so against changing the game so it isn't like new WoW (Arena Era) anymore? We need to change the game more because this arenas thing is extremely stale and boring, we need to revamp PvP entirely and bring a new change like TBC did again.

My idea is to make World PvP popular again because WoW is not an Esport, it was never intended to be an Esport by the original designers and creators of WoW and they never knew or anticipated such a thing would've been an issue in the future so they never bothered designing any of the mechanics or abilities/classes for an Esport ready game. Which is why arenas will remain unbalanced forever, any arena bracket is extremely unbalanced as a result of the original design WoW had at the beginning.

If you don't like arenas either then for the life of me I have no idea why you're so against it, it would also be fun for you to play as well, you could be fully involved and have fun with friends! You could really immerse yourself into the world after a hard day at work or school and live in the fantasy that WoW is supposed to be for people.

WoW was never meant to be restricted as a simple MOBA/Esports game, it has far more to offer than something like that and I want to utilize it to it's full potential with the changes I suggested in the original post.

If your issue is that these things will affect PvE then we can create separate realms specifically for PvP and the PvE designers' grip will be weak and have no power over there. I also have the intention to make PvP gear free to buy so you can put on the best gear possible and jump right into the PvP without any limitations upon hitting max level, it'll take away any sort of gear differences that would happen on current retail game and allow players to show their true skill without being carried by gear or item level.

BGs did not do more damage to WPvP than flying did because BGs were a way for players with low end PCs to enjoy WPvP without lagging an insane amount like they would in the world, being in an instance took out any sort of objects or mechanics/running scripts in the world that would've otherwise caused the lag for players in a 40v40 battle.

Flying is simply another reason why WPvP is dead and the fact that you admit that people use flying mounts to avoid WPvP just proves that point further and not only that, they would abuse it so they could fly off, wait for CDs and then come back to ambush them and kill them. Flying made sure that players did not need to be on the ground to interact with players or objects to get where they needed to go and thus removing 90% of the danger of being in the open wide world of Warcraft.

Last question: why are you trying to shut down my thread by dismissing all of my ideas and not trying to contribute to the discussion? All your posts here are dedicated to pulling apart my ideas and attempting to make them impossible to discuss in here. If you're not here to have a proper discussion and put in your 2 cents then why are you even in here at all?

[Deathquoi]

World PvP isn't a thing because there are no meaningful rewards for it and the people who care about world PvP are doing PvP content that has rewards. Making everyone's lives worse just to spur something that was never all that prevalent to begin with, even back in Vanilla, is dumb.

[Deleted]

Response.

1. Blizzard actually said that this was the main reason for this implementation, I don't know what else I could say to convince you.

2. With the changes I proposed in OP, the players will find themselves having to adapt to this new change in order to get ahead of everybody else and to remain competitive and thus they will start to create a community of their own with networks of friends to rely on and guilds will be relevant with practical use in PvP. I believe in a more practical approach to solving problems in this game than just allowing players to have what they want when they want because then they'll claim that it's boring and there's no more challenge for them.

3. That's why I suggested the idea on the WPvP islands to allow players create groups up to a maximum of 3 players each in order to kill other teams of 3s on the island and farm their marks of honor and ranks. This is directly taking the 3v3 bracket that everybody likes and placing it in an environment where they'll have to defend themselves from possibly more than one group and they'll still be able to use objects and obstacles like buildings to kite players and to execute plays like in 3s, but in a different way. They'll have to learn to expect ambushes, guerrilla warfare will be a thing here as well, they'll have to learn how to use different tactics to defend their team from multiple teams and learn to stay defensive until they see an opening in a huge battle to jump in and kill some enemies off.

That effectively allows them to play with a familiar style of PvP that they know from the past and at the same time participate in World PvP.

4. The old honor system was better because it meant you had to work as a faction in order to get ahead instead of a small group of 2 or 3, it took a long time back then and that's why I think it would give players a sense of appreciation for when they gain a specific rank they'd been working towards for a while. Perhaps if the honor system isn't very well liked then a new system could be implemented but I don't know what that could be. But the honor system gave you a sense of immersion in the game and to feel like you're actually doing something slaying thousands of players.

5. True, but it's still impossible to get an idea discussed on these forums without players trying to rip it apart because it doesn't suit their narrative or preferred gameplay instead of providing insightful criticism that could help shape these ideas better.

6. There wouldn't be such a paradigm like this because I'd push for the separation of PvP from PvE by creating PvP realms with no PvE influence on them, that way PvP can be the main focus and be given full priority there. There is no way to get any ideas past the PvE department because their influence is much more powerful in the company.

7. More buttons means more counterplay available to the players, they removed niche abilities because they were pointless for PvE but what they're forgetting is that these niche abilities allowed us to counter players who pumped mongoloid damage into people with no skill or tactic involved, it allowed us to outplay them and run circles around them like they were nothing instead of straight up standing in front of each other and PvEing each other down.

That's why I'm advocating for the return of more abilities and the old talent system, because it'll allow different ways of beating the same class, it'll allow us to use different techniques to adapt to a situation and come out victorious in the end if you can utilize these abilities with skill.

8. These ideas that I've brought up have actually been tried and tested on private servers with positive reception from the playerbase, Arena Tournament turned the Isle of Quel Danas into a World PvP island with a 3 man team format where they had to go around killing other teams for badges of justice and gain a rank every time they earned 1k badges, I played there for 5- 9 hours per day back then, so much fun and there were so many people there everyday, endless fun and endless grinding. It was perfection. So I believe that players would come to like this idea and actually embrace it.

9. That's why I'll allow players to buy full gear for free as soon as they hit max level, that way gear won't be an obstacle anymore, nobody will be weak and that means that skill will actually have to be used in order to defeat opponents in the world. I'm thinking of making the gear have different stats/set bonuses, that way the PvP can be different with the way fights will go. But I don't think it'll be necessary if we balance the PvP properly around WPvP.

10. The reason why I've suggested to bring back the old WOTLK talents is so we have a base to build upon, we'll use that as a template for the next couple of expansions to continuously add more to it and evolve the talents. And I've also added my own suggestion of creating sub talents for each spec to allow a different way of playing the same spec which you can read here:

Reintroduce old WOTLK talent system, it'll be similar to the current honor talent system Holinka created but it'll actually provide options to players in how they create their character's game play. I will introduce sub talents for each main talent which will allow players to pick a particular gameplay style. E.G: Resto Druids have a current gameplay of applying HOTs and forgetting with occasional casts.

The sub talent could allow a completely different style of gameplay, like applying AOE type heals where you can place up to 4 efflorescences in a particular zone and they sprout mushrooms that you can directly apply HOTs to but you won't be allowed to directly heal your allies, the more HOTs you apply to your mushrooms, the stronger the heals become, and the further apart the mushrooms are, the less they heal and they'll get stronger the closer they are to each other. These mushrooms will produce AOE healing for your partners and allow you to strategically place them in areas to provide healing in tight spots.

Another example would be using the Prot Warrior spec and allowing it actually be useful in PvP without being a typical damage absorb bot that does absolutely nothing for their team. I had something in mind for it similar to that Overwatch game character that can produce a huge shield to protect his team behind him. Perhaps the Warrior could create reinforced walls that'll stay rooted in place for 20 or 30 seconds and that'll prevent the enemy from hitting through it and must go around, and likewise, the Prot Warrior's team cannot hit the enemies through the wall either. However heals may travel through if they are on the Warrior's team but the heals will be reduced by 50% and can be dispelled no matter what for balancing purposes. The Warrior's damage will be vastly diminished in exchange meaning their main purpose with this talent will be to provide absolute protection for their team.

11. Agreed.

12. No problem. :P

13. Preaching wasn't my intention, but I might try doing that the next time I come up with ideas for the game.

Goodbye bro

- - - Updated - - -

World PvP isn't a thing because there are no meaningful rewards for it and the people who care about world PvP are doing PvP content that has rewards. Making everyone's lives worse just to spur something that was never all that prevalent to begin with, even back in Vanilla, is dumb.

That's why I suggested to add rewards for WPvP in the original post?... Did you even read it yet lol.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The majority of players who wanted WPvP quit during the period between Cataclysm release up until mid WOD where they lost 5.5 million subs.

There IS nobody left that wants WPvP because there's none left playing, they've either went to play on some private server or found a new game to stick to until the state of WoW improves, some won't even return.

So yes, if you mean the majority of players who don't want WPvP are the current new players who began during the period from MOP to WOD/Legion.. then yeah, you're actually right.

That's some bullshit. World PVP was dead long before Cataclysm came along.

I honestly do not care about PvE, it is a dull side of WoW that PvP has suffered from for years just to please the PvE playerbase, a good example being Legion WPvP state.

We get that...but your ideas cannot be implemented by the PVP designer.

My ideas are only terrible to the majority of you because you've grown up with arenas, of course you'll be biased against anything that involves butchering arenas. But let me ask you this; if you're very supportive of the idea of changing the game so it isn't like old WoW (Vanilla Honor System/WPvP era) anymore, then why are you so against changing the game so it isn't like new WoW (Arena Era) anymore? We need to change the game more because this arenas thing is extremely stale and boring, we need to revamp PvP entirely and bring a new change like TBC did again.

I've played Wow since Launch...and I honestly don't care about Arenas. All I've said is if you're going to tear the guts out of Arena...you might as well just kill the whole thing.

My idea is to make World PvP popular again because WoW is not an Esport, it was never intended to be an Esport by the original designers and creators of WoW and they never knew or anticipated such a thing would've been an issue in the future so they never bothered designing any of the mechanics or abilities/classes for an Esport ready game. Which is why arenas will remain unbalanced forever, any arena bracket is extremely unbalanced as a result of the original design WoW had at the beginning.

None of your ideas will make World PVP popular again. World PVP started dying when battlegrounds were introduced.

If your issue is that these things will affect PvE then we can create separate realms specifically for PvP and the PvE designers' grip will be weak and have no power over there. I also have the intention to make PvP gear free to buy so you can put on the best gear possible and jump right into the PvP without any limitations upon hitting max level, it'll take away any sort of gear differences that would happen on current retail game and allow players to show their true skill without being carried by gear or item level.

I highly doubt there is enough demand for PVP-only servers to justify their existence... but at least you wouldn't be fucking with PVE that way.

BGs did not do more damage to WPvP than flying did because BGs were a way for players with low end PCs to enjoy WPvP without lagging an insane amount like they would in the world, being in an instance took out any sort of objects or mechanics/running scripts in the world that would've otherwise caused the lag for players in a 40v40 battle.

BG's are not World PVP.

Last question: why are you trying to shut down my thread by dismissing all of my ideas and not trying to contribute to the discussion? All your posts here are dedicated to pulling apart my ideas and attempting to make them impossible to discuss in here. If you're not here to have a proper discussion and put in your 2 cents then why are you even in here at all?

I have put my two cents in...you just don't like what I have to say. I do not believe your ideas will re-invigorate World PVP because you are putting the blame on its decline on the wrong reasons. The height of World PVP was when there were no other alternatives for PVP. World PVP started dying the moment AV and WSG were introduced.

WoW is primarily a PVE game. I get that you don't care about PVE...but that's where their focus has always been. You'd be better off working as a PVP designer for a game that actually prioritizes PVP instead of a game that doesn't.

[Deathquoi]

That's why I suggested to add rewards for WPvP in the original post?... Did you even read it yet lol.

Yeah, I read it. Basically you want to completely change the game to be what you want it to be regardless of what the majority wants.

[Deleted]

Response

Every response you've given here is false or has little to basis on reality.

Cataclysm release was JUST after WOTLK which had 12 million subscribers and had the highest peak of WPvP activity in WoW since WoW's release, WPvP began to die after Cataclysm was released, coupled with the loss of 2 million subscribers in 2 months.

Your stubborn claims about BGs being what killed WPvP makes absolutely no sense since that wouldn't be possible, World PvP became even more popular years after they were introduced back then. So no, your claims about this is false and there are no statistics to show for it either.

BGs are World PvP in an instanced format.

I believe you just wanted to dismiss everything and to pick my ideas apart because you didn't like them, you were absolutely not interested in discussing any of the ideas and was hellbent on them not being possible or good in any way or form.

I'm just going to ask you to leave and stop trying to pick an argument on this thread, goodbye.

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Yeah, I read it. Basically you want to completely change the game to be what you want it to be regardless of what the majority wants.

The majority had to deal with a sudden change like TBC, why can't the majority deal with a sudden change like this? They ARE all for change after all right? Since they supported the changes that came in TBC, they can support new and different changes that would come out with an idea like this as well.

That's another thing that began to tear this game apart, worrying about what the majority wants, nobody will even dare touch arenas for fear of players unsubscribing so they have to leave it in and it has become very stale since there's only so many different ways you can make arenas "interesting" and "balanced" over the past 10 years. It just isn't practical anymore in my opinion.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

While those changes would change pvp for the better. A lot of those changes affect the whole game, not just pvp. By now people have to accept that pvp is just a sideshow, it has been dead for two expansions in a row, and wow won't be around for much longer. Not long enough for such radical changes.

Good ideas, but WoW is not a PvP centric game. None of this will happen, unfortunately.

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World PvP isn't a thing because there are no meaningful rewards for it and the people who care about world PvP are doing PvP content that has rewards. Making everyone's lives worse just to spur something that was never all that prevalent to begin with, even back in Vanilla, is dumb.

Early in vanilla wpvp was the only pvp, and it was definitely a big part of the game. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Flaks]

Holy crap op is super defensive about his objectively shitty ideas. Every one of your ideas has been dismantled by people in this thread. I'll just add that it's for the best that we don't take 10 leaps back for the 15 steps forward and 5 steps back this game has taken since its release. You're trying to make this game into something it never was and will never be.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

BGs are World PvP in an instanced format.

BG's are BG's....they arent World PVP....World PVP happens out in the world.

[Rotted]

Coming as a 'part time' casual pvper, I'll give you my break down

Snip - see below

Delete flying from Azeroth, this idea will be hated by a lot but flying is one of the biggest factors in why WPvP has died out.

As others have said this also affects pve content, but I disagree that's why world pvp died. World pvp was dead before cataclysm.

Delete CRZ, force players to socialize with their own realms, to police them, to work together to create a new community that'll have it's own rules, it's own quirks and qualities that no other realm will have. It'll allow players to get to know each other and thus they'll be more likely to work together should their cities come under attack or if a raid is being created.

This worked in TBC and it was nice, each server actually had their own community and everyone knew most people, either personally or by reputation. If you were a dick you were outed. Sadly, deleting CRZ wouldn't work any more, imagine it this way you give a 14 year old kid a playstation 4, then after a year of playing you take it away and give them a PS1. You'd get tantrums.

Take out rewards from arenas, keep them around for something fun to do in the meanwhile, nothing too serious.

Arena rewards deserve to stay, as much as I hate gear or non combat rewards being reserved for the top 0.5%, if you work your arse up to that number from thousands of teams against you, you deserve some sort of acknowledgment

Reintroduce Vanilla Honor System, players will be rewarded honor for killing enemy players and lose honor by killing lowbies/low level guards and gain ranks going from Grunt/scout all the way to High Warlord/Grand Marshal, defending cities will grant increased honor, raiding cities and successfully sacking the king or queen will grant you 50 marks of WSG/AB/AV each, and you will gain a new title and mount from it, effectively changing the current achievement's rewards to freshen up the game a little bit, although I'm thinking of allowing players to choose their preferred title/mount so they can go for the old one or the new one.

I quite like the new honor system we have now, but I wouldn't say no to tweeks to incoperate some of what you say back into it. But it would have to be different from just farming HKs from different sources. I'm not sure where I stand on marks from battlegrounds, they were definitely instinctive to go into specifics during TBC when I was grinding the mounts, but besides that meh

Design and produce 3 brand new BGs, maybe 1 type of game mode each, 3 flag cap/base holding for points/all out PvP like AV maps.

They need new BG's but they need to introduce new concepts, for example huttball in TOR or an Elimination 40v40 Bg. I don't think anyone wants a regurgitated WSG or AV or another hybrid of the two

Get rid of PvP templates, reintroduce resilience into PvP gear and allow sockets for gemming into particular stats again, reforging comes back too.

The issue with resilience was, it sucked donkey dick if mid expansion you decided to pvp or if you were a new player starting half way through, or a returning player half way through etc. Towards the end of resilience the gap was becoming huge to the point where a fully geared player could 1v5 non geared. Mind you, now we have a prestige system in place, now would be the ideal time to bring it back, it would go without saying higher prestige should = more pvp gear. As the system works now, it doesn't matter when you start you automatically get placed in prestige 0, against people who theoretically are on your level (and would be) your gear.

Gemming and Reforging also effects PvE, so unless you Incorporated into pve gear that can't happen.

Reintroduce old WOTLK talent system, it'll be similar to the current honor talent system Holinka created but it'll actually provide options to players in how they create their character's game play. I will introduce sub talents for each main talent which will allow players to pick a particular gameplay style. E.G: Resto Druids have a current gameplay of applying HOTs and forgetting with occasional casts.

Again, if you're having a 'complex' talent tree in pvp, you have to have it in pve,

Possibly adding a mercenary mode? Where you will have a bounty on your head that occurs when a player has been killing X amount of players, this bounty will also be a small buff that'll allow increased honor gains but at the risk of being seen on the map by a marker. The players who kill the target with the bounty will be rewarded with X reward, no clue what would be a viable reward. This again is just an idea and it is similar to Grand Theft Auto 5 so I agree with you if you say that this idea is pretty shitty. But I want to find things that'll get players going out of the cities into the world again.

This would work fine, just have the person with a extra bounty of honor, similar to how people get extra gold from people in league for getting x kills without dying.

Snip - Dedicated pvp zone with combat and non combat rewards

This works fine, but you need to have a specific time it opens each day, otherwise you'd just kill off every battleground,

Reintroduce glyphs, enchants and gems overall, allowing players to modify what their character's stats and strengths/weaknesses were was an insanely fantastic aspect of the game that allowed us to tailor our own characters around our gameplay, this needs to come back hands down.

As long as it comes back for PvE that's fine

Delete Ashran, probably lol.

No need......

You need to get a job.

Actually nevermind, OP's a one poster.

So automatically no matter what any first poster says, we disregard?

Brilliant.

[Nutri]

For all that want World PVP back I hope some day Blizzard will make a 'World PVP' realm disabling flying, no CRZ ofc and no LFD tool. One locked pvp realm.

Maybe it's the best thing ever with true world pvp going on all day long... Or maybe it's less exciting as it looked because they won't find any wandering heroes to gank and other players may just too spread out to call it 'active world pvp'.

I'd say it be a nice experiment.