DH feels really bad?

[fjeenzy]

I personally do not see where your whine is coming from. I accuired 4part and it's rather amazing in my eyes. Pull dps is a lot more stable and our single target in general is fine. Top dog single target, shortly behind unholy dks pretty much.

What I do agree needs some fixing is our sustained cleave. On bosses like Mistress you can easily see yourself fall off quite fast, cause our aoe is so restricted. Surely 2p helps a bit with fast burst aoe, but something should be done for some faster burst aoe. And no, I don't want to play demonic.

All in all I MUCH prefer this playstyle over the old mastery build. Haste/crit is where it's at and the amount of fury starvations are way fewer than they were before. I can only imagine once I've replaced all shitty old mastery parts how the fury reg will look like.

You shouldn't look too much at warcraftlog-rankings, because if you look at the amount of DH-logs there it's a lot higher than most other classes, and lets face it - most DH's arent amazing or even good to begin with.

[Deleted]

I hope that i get the new legenday ring (with the extra talent).
I think, this will kill my problem with constant cleave / constant ae because i'm targeting ChaosCleave.
I've got AothG, so i think this will work out fine.


Edit: whoop whoop 100 posts!

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

U think so? It is possible to get a legendary every week or two, but only if you complete ALL possible activities that can award legendary - all raids in all modes, all M+0, all emissary chests, etc.
Not everyone have that much time :\ I play pretty actively, but I get only 1 leg ~per month, and I still miss 3 legendarys for Havoc before 7.2.5 - so in the worst scenario its about 5 months for me until cloak drops *_*

I don't do m+. Just ap quests, raid heroic and mythic.

[Killface1]

I personally do not see where your whine is coming from. I accuired 4part and it's rather amazing in my eyes. Pull dps is a lot more stable and our single target in general is fine. Top dog single target, shortly behind unholy dks pretty much.

What I do agree needs some fixing is our sustained cleave. On bosses like Mistress you can easily see yourself fall off quite fast, cause our aoe is so restricted. Surely 2p helps a bit with fast burst aoe, but something should be done for some faster burst aoe. And no, I don't want to play demonic.

All in all I MUCH prefer this playstyle over the old mastery build. Haste/crit is where it's at and the amount of fury starvations are way fewer than they were before. I can only imagine once I've replaced all shitty old mastery parts how the fury reg will look like.

You shouldn't look too much at warcraftlog-rankings, because if you look at the amount of DH-logs there it's a lot higher than most other classes, and lets face it - most DH's arent amazing or even good to begin with.

Well lets see how demon hunters are doing on the top ranks, where you can assume that everybody who is getting top ranks is reasonably proficient with their class and we filter out the scrubs. By your logic DH's should be significantly higher no?

Because real life evidence disagrees with you.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=95

But hey, at least on ST were only behind Unholy Dk's

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2032

And also outlaw and assassination and sub rogues, mm and BM hunters, destro and demo warlocks, arms warriors and frost mages.

And pretending our set bonus (which nerfs our aoe and cleave) and is only a small upgrade ST is gonna make up the difference is literally insane.

Edit: at least Havoc is WoW's most popular DPS class, and there's hopefully no way blizzard leaves in languishing so badly for a tier.

#atleastwerenotww

[fjeenzy]

Well lets see how demon hunters are doing on the top ranks, where you can assume that everybody who is getting top ranks is reasonably proficient with their class and we filter out the scrubs. By your logic DH's should be significantly higher no?

Because real life evidence disagrees with you.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=95

But hey, at least on ST were only behind Unholy Dk's

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=95&boss=2032

And also outlaw and assassination and sub rogues, mm and BM hunters, destro and demo warlocks, arms warriors and frost mages.

And pretending our set bonus (which nerfs our aoe and cleave) and is only a small upgrade ST is gonna make up the difference is literally insane.

Edit: at least Havoc is WoW's most popular DPS class, and there's hopefully no way blizzard leaves in languishing so badly for a tier.

#atleastwerenotww

If 980k st is your top go to number I leave no further comment.

It's not even been one reset. Wait for mythics and real numbers will start dishing out. If we are that far behind, like you said, fixes will be there - quickly. I just stated it felt better than before with the new t20, most whines been around rng, no?

[Deleted]

If 980k st is your top go to number I leave no further comment. You just seem like one of those generic "if we arent top 3 blizzard is doing something wrong" type of people posting like that.

It's not even been one reset. Wait for mythics and real numbers will start dishing out. If we are that far behind, like you said, fixes will be there - quickly. I just stated it felt better than before with the new t20, most whines been around rng, no?

No, he was basically calling you out for being wrong, and he's right. You claimed dh's being much higher on logs than they actually were. Let's face it, scraping the bottom 3 ranks doesn't sound high at all to me. Single target dps they aren't top either, which you claimed they were. Good rogues will gladly proof you wrong anytime of the day. The issue with dh isn't their burst however, their sustained dps leaves much to be desired, however the real issue is their cleave damage, unless you go for bloodlet which t20 says nope too. You'll struggle quite abit compared to other classes. Tomb has a lot of high hp adds that stay alive for quite sometime, demonic is pretty shit, specially once you get into t20. The new ring+bracer combo mitigates this a little but the point still stands. Our sustained cleave is weak. Just hoping thery buff bloodlet.

[Vynestra]

Im having the most fun ive had as veng dh in this game in a long time.

[Shutyertrap]

You shouldn't look too much at warcraftlog-rankings, because if you look at the amount of DH-logs there it's a lot higher than most other classes, and lets face it - most DH's arent amazing or even good to begin with.

We were good last patch. It is highly unlikely that all those DH who made us look good on logs suddenly became bad with a patch that didn't change anything (that you change rotation for re-learn). So, I can't follow your logic. There's a spread sheet of how much T20 set pieces mean dps-wise to each spec and even looking there, our set pieces will not bring us high enough to compete with the other melee (except WW and SV.. they are fu.cked) let alone casters in TOS. "let's wait and see" works for blizzard, but for me, I am only good at Goroth.. and having to play perfectly in other fights in TOS to stay close where I used to be among my guilds top dps.. AND I am playing one of the easiest specs where it is harder to mess up. I think there is a problem..

[aGit]

I hope that i get the new legenday ring (with the extra talent).
I think, this will kill my problem with constant cleave / constant ae because i'm targeting ChaosCleave.
I've got AothG, so i think this will work out fine.


Edit: whoop whoop 100 posts!

the reason ccleave worked last patch was that mastery was good. mastery is no longer good, chaos cleave doesn't work out at all. you're more or less pigeonholed into first blood at the moment and with the bracer nerf, even bloodlet is gutted. as things are now, the ring is quite shit and won't fix your problems.

[Frozenbro]

If 980k st is your top go to number I leave no further comment.

It's not even been one reset. Wait for mythics and real numbers will start dishing out. If we are that far behind, like you said, fixes will be there - quickly. I just stated it felt better than before with the new t20, most whines been around rng, no?

he linked 95th percentile, if 980k ST is low for you, then try 99th percentile https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=2032 and max percentile https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=100&boss=2032 , as you can see, the story keeps repeating itself, so "those logs were bad dhs" isnt a valid argument here and this wont get better with t20 since its shit, and it will get worse in mythic ToS cause our scaling sucks since they removed chaos blades scaling with mastery, let alone our laughable sustained ST outside meta and our nonexistant cleave since the retard moarg nerf

[Raiju]

Yes, it is...

I've been doing all emmisaries broken shore nh on multiple difficulties en multiple difficulties etc. with only 1 legendary / month, never got any 2 weeks apart.

[MisterBigglez]

Don't just look at the first few days of statistics and think DH is utter shit. Most of you won't have your set bonuses yet and your stats are probably wrong because of changes to talents and sets favouring other stats. Give it around 2 weeks and if DH is performing badly, blizz will just give you an aura boost.

I switched away from DH mid way through NH just because I couldn't stand the fury generation and amount of RNG involved while only pressing one button. So much for the major changes coming through :P

[Sarevokcz]

Don't just look at the first few days of statistics and think DH is utter shit. Most of you won't have your set bonuses yet and your stats are probably wrong because of changes to talents and sets favouring other stats. Give it around 2 weeks and if DH is performing badly, blizz will just give you an aura boost.

I switched away from DH mid way through NH just because I couldn't stand the fury generation and amount of RNG involved while only pressing one button. So much for the major changes coming through :P

DH set IS utter shit, thats the problem, it literally forces you into ST talent on a row with cleave/aoe options, severaly limiting DHs on half the fights one way or the other (something which isnt problem right now, as t19 is all purpose/neutral). They would need to give DH new setbonuses and change the moarg nerf to make DHs viable on something like sasszine, at the very least. couple of % on same or even all abilities isnt going to help (our ST is fine, not even OP anymore, but the sustained cleave/aoe is absulte trash)

[Fordprefect]

You like the fast paced, moving all around, jaxk of all trades style of demon hunters? If yes play it. Yea we dropped a bit with this new tier and lost to some classes in every side of dps(cleave/aoe/ST) and we are closer to the bottom row than top but its like a %10 difference with top dps spec and we still got the best priority target burst in game through our great cooldowns. I like demon hunters lore and play style(yes rng is making me angry sometimes) so i dont care about shitty numbers. Ok that balance dru that i was beating him by 200k dps can beat me now but i got meta and he doesnt. So if you want good numbers in this content go gear your warlock/rogue/warrior or cry out in official forums. So maybe blizz decides to buff havoc if lots of dps whores quits dh and havoc dh numbers drops down a lot.

[Deleted]

Don't just look at the first few days of statistics and think DH is utter shit. Most of you won't have your set bonuses yet and your stats are probably wrong because of changes to talents and sets favouring other stats. Give it around 2 weeks and if DH is performing badly, blizz will just give you an aura boost.

I switched away from DH mid way through NH just because I couldn't stand the fury generation and amount of RNG involved while only pressing one button. So much for the major changes coming through :P

Set bonuses will put us even further behind, because apart from a higher itemlevel, T20 is actually worse ot at most as good as T19. And our BiS-legendaries prevent us from going 4/2-bonus (and even that is only mediocre).

We are at best average ST and useless in terms of cleave/AoE - without any options.

[Deix-EU]

Ok, I read the complete AMA developer's answers and now everything is clear. I had no answers, but now I'm sure ! Blizz's dev are ... dumb ! Yeah and that's all folks.
What I read/learned:

- DH is not a sustain "AOE / Cleave" class and never will be (that's why the nerfed to bracers etc.)
=> Oh ok, then they surely don't see a problem with classes overpowered in both ST and Cleave sustain ? ...

- To the sentence "Eye Beam is not used in ST do to his high cost" they answer "I first read at this sentence because I read 'If I don't push the cooldown button it penalizes me, which the the definition of all cooldown button'"
=> Wtf is this answer ? They must have problem to understand meanings of sentences or what ? ... but after, a clear answer with ...
- ST rotation is "fine" either way with or without Eye Beam
=> i.e we don't care optimization. O.K

- DH havoc is a spec that should do 2* the damage of others classes on the first 30 secs for them to be competitive at the end of 5 min. of boss fight duration calibration.
=> Oh ok, so they don't see that other classes CAN with good conditions do not a lot less than us with pull and be FAR MORE than us in sustain after. Good comprehension of their game !

- They want us to switch trinkets according to fights.
=> In which world with such delta between them ? ...

- They want to emphasize more RNG side (item or spec with very very very good potential with RNG better than very good at sustain always) than sustain one. They "feel" it's more fun to deal with non repetitive results of a key press sequence
=> OK, it's pretty right in a sense but this is too extrem right now

- Havoc major changes were tryed out in their 'lab' but they never found something appealing for now for a) the spec still being '''''competitive'''' (lel) b) being equally fun
=> I hate their judgment. Ok, this game is theirs but they clearly offense player base with such spirit. Plus, if they didn't find some possibilities on paper to make it into even the PTR cycle, they must be very silly.

... I have no more expectations from them. Will just enjoy the game between DH and Frost Mage ...

[InkarnateKT]

yeah we will just lose raid spots to arms warriors, see rank 3 warrior parse, rank 1 dh on KJ (private so dont bother)

http://i.imgur.com/f0705hv.png

[Alvito]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#

DH not looking so good.


Pretty funny how the 2 of the bottom 3 on damage are classes that literally only have ONE spec to DPS with... Monk, DH, and Priest are the ONLY classes that only have ONE option to DPS with and no other specs to fall back on. They should be near the top (SP is at least).

Using overall for the entire raid is just absurd. Different specs get to bump their numbers due to heavy aoe on some fights, or cd lining up with stacks on Maiden. They are as low as they are in over all due to how they did on one fight everybody else padded numbers on https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2037.

[Addyizor]

Ok, I read the complete AMA developer's answers and now everything is clear. I had no answers, but now I'm sure ! Blizz's dev are ... dumb ! Yeah and that's all folks.
What I read/learned:

- DH is not a sustain "AOE / Cleave" class and never will be (that's why the nerfed to bracers etc.)
=> Oh ok, then they surely don't see a problem with classes overpowered in both ST and Cleave sustain ? ...

- To the sentence "Eye Beam is not used in ST do to his high cost" they answer "I first read at this sentence because I read 'If I don't push the cooldown button it penalizes me, which the the definition of all cooldown button'"
=> Wtf is this answer ? They must have problem to understand meanings of sentences or what ? ... but after, a clear answer with ...
- ST rotation is "fine" either way with or without Eye Beam
=> i.e we don't care optimization. O.K

- DH havoc is a spec that should do 2* the damage of others classes on the first 30 secs for them to be competitive at the end of 5 min. of boss fight duration calibration.
=> Oh ok, so they don't see that other classes CAN with good conditions do not a lot less than us with pull and be FAR MORE than us in sustain after. Good comprehension of their game !

- They want us to switch trinkets according to fights.
=> In which world with such delta between them ? ...

- They want to emphasize more RNG side (item or spec with very very very good potential with RNG better than very good at sustain always) than sustain one. They "feel" it's more fun to deal with non repetitive results of a key press sequence
=> OK, it's pretty right in a sense but this is too extrem right now

- Havoc major changes were tryed out in their 'lab' but they never found something appealing for now for a) the spec still being '''''competitive'''' (lel) b) being equally fun
=> I hate their judgment. Ok, this game is theirs but they clearly offense player base with such spirit. Plus, if they didn't find some possibilities on paper to make it into even the PTR cycle, they must be very silly.

... I have no more expectations from them. Will just enjoy the game between DH and Frost Mage ...

I'm having problems "to understand sentences" with your whole post.

[Saverem]

Using overall for the entire raid is just absurd. Different specs get to bump their numbers due to heavy aoe on some fights, or cd lining up with stacks on Maiden. They are as low as they are in over all due to how they did on one fight everybody else padded numbers on https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2037.

How is that padding though? Killing the adds that come out is necessary to beating the fight, it's not padding if the AoE actually benefits the fight.

Padding would be AoEing on M Botanist.


With that said, that's pretty sad seeing what used to be THE strongest AoE class being dropped to dead last on an AoE fight...