Vantus runes discussion & redesign suggestion

[Terantrox]

Lately I have been thinking about the design of Vantus runes si I wanted to discuss their design and give a redesign suggestion.

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First of all let's start by trying to very generally deduct the design intent behind Vantus runes so we have a basis for the discussion:

• They should be a source of steady income.
• They should be unique, not a flask/enchant 2.0
• They should provide help for progress raids, potentially enabling you to push that final tiny bit missing to succeed in an encounter.

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Now based on this assumption here's a list of the pros and cons of the current Vantus rune design (I tried my best to be objective):

Pros

• As consumables, they have the potential to generate a steady income.
• The boss specificity makes them tailored to target progress encounters.
• Weekly boss lockout and duration make them unique compared to similar consumables
• 1500 Versatility is not to be underestimated and empowers you in every aspect.

Cons

• Weekly duration slows down steady income.
• Boss specificity, completely limits usefulness to progress raids thus target audience is limited (further amplified by weekly lockout)
• Raid specificity, makes old runes obsolete after one tier, since progress raiders will always target the most recent raid tier.
• Once you manage to kill a boss, for the rest of the week Vantus runes are useless and the following week you have to guess whether or not you are able to kill the boss without the rune so you can use it for the next boss.

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Now to my suggestion for a redesign to empower the role of Vantus runes while at the same time making the more flexible and a more reliable source of income:

Remove baseline boss lockout, instead give them a baseline of 500 versatility. Additionally, every time you wipe at a specific boss increase the versatility by 75 up to 2000. However, the bonus is reset to baseline once you pull another boss. To avoid abuse, the buff increase would only take effect once you're in combat with the boss for at least 2 minutes.

Now what would this change mean for the design philosophy of Vantus runes:

• The baseline 500 versatility and the removal of boss specificity would open up the Vantus rune to a larger audience.
• The Vantus runes would still keep their role of helping you push this final bit of a boss you might be lacking.
• The Vantus rune actually would encourage to keep trying instead of giving up.
• They do not become obsolete once you manage to kill the boss and you won't have the dilemma next week where you wonder for which boss you should use the rune.
• They would be even more unique compared to other consumables.

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So what's your opinion on the current Vantus runes? Do you have any points to a add to my lists? What do you think about my redesign suggestion?

-Terantrox

[the]

I have not found them to generate steady income.

Instead it's been herbs getting locked into a slow selling, ever decreasing in value object. Herbs can be sold whenever it's convenient (sell when high) and sell well and do not lose value.

The only one that's been selling above cost to make for a while has been Guldan. The rest rot. Anything that is nighthold is selling at mats cost, and anything prior sells at less than mats cost.

[Atharaxie]

That's actualy quite smart. As a raider, I would use it every week.
Four potential problems :
1) Versa is a meh stat for most DPS/Heal but for some it's their primary. Having 500 is good, having +75 every wipe is just insane. Rogue would be the only melee class. You could argue it's the same with current 1500 but current only applies to 1 boss per week.
2) Is the wipe counter on player or on raid ? Is bringing in a replacement after 10 wipes a bad idea because no 1250 versa ? can you cheese 2min pulls with just two tank and healer ?
3) Everyone would use it, encryptionner would only sell that because the demand would be huge and there is no problem of according supply to demand as there is with let's say enchant (intel,str,agi ? haste,crit,mastery ?)
4) 2min pull is a good security to prevent cheesing but some wipes occur way before 2mins for perfectly reasonnable causes.

[Terantrox]

I have not found them to generate steady income.

I totally agree, I should have phrased this sentence differently, fixed it. They have the potential to generate a steady income, but do not in their current form. Luckily in the new tier there are no longer different recipes for the different bosses, this should help at least a little.

1) Versa is a meh stat for most DPS/Heal but for some it's their primary. Having 500 is good, having +75 every wipe is just insane. Rogue would be the only melee class. You could argue it's the same with current 1500 but current only applies to 1 boss per week.

While Versa might be a meh stat for most DPS/Heal, I think that it would still be the best choice, since it is currently the only stat providing offensive as well as defensive value for everyone. I think the damage reduction for an entire progress raid should not be underestimated, no matter how small it is. Numbers are obviously ballpark numbers and should be adapted accordingly after theorycrafting & testing and remember to reach the cap you would need at least 10 wipes of 2 mins minimum on each boss which are 20 minutes minimum.

2) Is the wipe counter on player or on raid ? Is bringing in a replacement after 10 wipes a bad idea because no 1250 versa ? can you cheese 2min pulls with just two tank and healer ?

Cheesing is obviously always a problem, I think probably the best idea would be to have a raid wide counter and everyone who has a rune active profits. I'm also not sure if switching players would be a huge problem without a raid wide counter, since replacements remain rather rare after 10+ wipes except maybe for PUG groups. However, I definitely see your point. As for the cheese pulls with tank and healer I am not sure if any raid would really consider doing this since runes are boss specific and have a weekly duration. Usually if you are progressing a boss where you really benefit from the runes it would be more helpful to have additional tries to nail the mechanics than to stack the buff.

3) Everyone would use it, encryptionner would only sell that because the demand would be huge and there is no problem of according supply to demand as there is with let's say enchant (intel,str,agi ? haste,crit,mastery ?)

You definitely have a point here, multiple stats might help out and also solve problem 1, but I kept Versa only in my initial suggestion because I thought Blizzard specifically limited the runes to Versa for uniqueness and since, as mentioned earlier, it also provides a defensive bonus for everyone.

4) 2min pull is a good security to prevent cheesing but some wipes occur way before 2mins for perfectly reasonnable causes.

Obviously the number here is also just a ballpark number, for example it could also be 1 min, but half the stat gain or something like that. However, while wipes occur for reasonable causes prior to the 2 min mark I think with exception of rare encounters this should not be too common.


Thanks for the nice feedback!