Unholy "forced" to use Convergence of Fates due bad design?

[Inject]

If you're using SI (you should be with shoulders) and you DT after apocalypse, you can delay your DA by 3-4 globals while you death coil to reduce the CD of DT.

But after using that much DC to reduce the CD of DT you need to build your RP back up before popping DA. And having your DT last as long as I do (relics) makes it even longer :\

[Maxweii]

I still can't find any concrete information on this. After the initial opener where you use Apoc and DA together followed by DT you have to decide between:

1. Delaying both apoc and DT ~45 seconds so it lines up with DA
2. Use apoc with DT on CD and not with DA until the next rotation
3. Use apoc without DT and delay your DT to use with DA off CD

I have been using option 3 and it seems to work alright. DA probably gains more benefit from the shoulder buff than Apoc. Not having a CoF kind of sucks.

If you're using SI then you wouldn't be delaying DT that long. You would use it in option 3, it would come off CD and you could get it back just in time to build up for DA

[Nangz]

But after using that much DC to reduce the CD of DT you need to build your RP back up before popping DA. And having your DT last as long as I do (relics) makes it even longer :\

You're right. The way to avoid that is to pool a bit more but I was a bit lenient with the globals. It will take 3-4 to reduce DT's cd but probably about that same time to build back up. You end up delaying your DA by around 5-10 seconds, much less with each Sudden Doom proc you get to use to proc SI.

The unfortunate part of this timing is that this happens on every boss fight so you might as well get used to it. At the 1:30/2min window. On longer fights you will also get it at the 7:30/8min window because you will delay Apocalypse by a similar amount of time at the 6 min window when they both sync.

[Inject]

If you're using SI then you wouldn't be delaying DT that long. You would use it in option 3, it would come off CD and you could get it back just in time to build up for DA

That should be the case but they never line up properly. My DT relics are probably messing things up.

[Maxweii]

That should be the case but they never line up properly. My DT relics are probably messing things up.

If you delay DA for a couple of seconds to pool runic that's not that bad, as long as you don't go over say, 15 seconds, which is roughly 12 globals, you are still doing things more or less in line with how they should be.

[Inject]

If you delay DA for a couple of seconds to pool runic that's not that bad, as long as you don't go over say, 15 seconds, which is roughly 12 globals, you are still doing things more or less in line with how they should be.

What about delaying your Apocs to line up with DA for the t20 2pc buff?

[Maxweii]

What about delaying your Apocs to line up with DA for the t20 2pc buff?

From what people have been finding/reporting in the Unholiest Discord, the buff doesn't affect our pets/summons (which seems like a bug so report it if you want as many have been).
The only good thing about lining up Apoc is it's a guaranteed 20.34 runic power as well as giving the Death debuffs on the target which does increase DA's damage on the target.

[Poisongaz]

You will always align DA with DT if you have SI. The only benefit of this trinket is that it lets you align Apocalypse with DA and benefit from the Tier Increase. Otherwise there is no benefit beyond an extra usage in fights depending on length.

Lets also be clear here. BiS is an interesting thing nowadays. With trinkets from previous tiers being "bis" you either keep the version you currently have which will be surpassed by higher ilvl gear or you focus on running older instances until you get one that titanforges high.




This 20 million number that you seem to have grabbed out of thin air is awfully generous. I just looked at the top 5 unholy parses for KJ heroic and found that most are doing somewhere between 15-17m damage on average. I looked at KJ because you really do need a longer fight for extra usage. Some of these are with COF but even ones with double stat trinkets aren't doing any better.

I got a lucky Heroic Vial drop and its doing 15 million easily on a 9 min fight. Add in the strength difference and other trinkets will outperform this. Not to mention they will titanforge with less effort.

And before you comment Yes, DA will continue scaling with all gear where Vial will only with Mastery and Crit, but CoF will only be an optimal trinket when it has a very high titanforge and only on fights of appropriate length. I can't speak for this tier, but using prior trinkets as examples we're looking at only 3-4 fights of length to get an extra use.

Didn't want to read any farther to comment, so im sorry in advance if you corrected yourself, but DA does not get any benefit from the tier dmg buff or the Death debuff that summoned ghouls give.

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From what people have been finding/reporting in the Unholiest Discord, the buff doesn't affect our pets/summons (which seems like a bug so report it if you want as many have been).
The only good thing about lining up Apoc is it's a guaranteed 20.34 runic power as well as giving the Death debuffs on the target which does increase DA's damage on the target.

Do you have any tests to prove that DA gets dmg from the Death debuff? I have tried many many times to figure out if it is or not and all of my tests have shown that it doesnt benefit from the debuff.

[Deleted]

What about delaying your Apocs to line up with DA for the t20 2pc buff?

Our pets currently don't benefit from t20.

CoF is a strong trinket going into ToS because even just a heroic version is worth a lot. The higher our gear (and specifically other trinkets) get, the worse it becomes. And trinkets like vial and engine are always good

[Zhorek]

Now that more might have replaced CoF with higher ilvl trinkets... how are you guys doing it?

I have moved from SI to IC and always use Apoc and DA on cd. DT goes always with DA ofc. I'm using shoulders and the new ring and have 2pc of each tier. It seems to be working well so far.

Would you keep using SI and delay DA about 15 seconds to line them up instead so both Apoc and DA can benefit from DT?

[Hellborne87]

Bumping this. Been watching to see if CoF is still bis and it's looking that way, on parses, at least. Sims show Vial and Specter ahead of it. Not sure what to think.

[spanishninja]

Yes it is, assuming DA build. It will be BiS until they nerf it in Argus.

It allows you to nearly perfectly line up DA and DT when you take SI and can allow you to get at least 1 extra DA rotation up in a fight.

It depends on the ilvl. My 905 foci with infected claws is outpacing SI with 890 CoF. It's important to realize that in most cases, you will not be comparing CoF with same ilvl ToS trinkets (unless you have some crazy TF CoF).

[Deleted]

It depends on the ilvl. My 905 foci with infected claws is outpacing SI with 890 CoF. It's important to realize that in most cases, you will not be comparing CoF with same ilvl ToS trinkets (unless you have some crazy TF CoF).

Bit unrelated but mind me asking why you have pp over brw?

Is it default or just for progress on a certain mythic boss?

[spanishninja]

Bit unrelated but mind me asking why you have pp over brw?

Is it default or just for progress on a certain mythic boss?

PP is simply better overall. better sustained DPS and synergizes with tier bonuses. Whoever told you BRW is better is wrong.

[Deleted]

PP is simply better overall. better sustained DPS and synergizes with tier bonuses. Whoever told you BRW is better is wrong.

No one told me btw is better, I use it because it removes that shit feeling when you get fuck all wounds on the pull and have to twiddle thumbs.

I'll give pp a try on clear tonight.

Thanks for the quick reply

[spanishninja]

No one told me btw is better, I use it because it removes that shit feeling when you get fuck all wounds on the pull and have to twiddle thumbs.

I'll give pp a try on clear tonight.

Thanks for the quick reply

if you take PP, you can try delaying outbreak until afte apoc. You'll lose at most 2 ticks of VP and will eliminate any effects of rng.

[Hellborne87]

So about CoF...

[Deleted]

if you take PP, you can try delaying outbreak until afte apoc. You'll lose at most 2 ticks of VP and will eliminate any effects of rng.

Interesting tip ty will try that out tonight.

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Cof may possibly become better as we gain ilevels.

At the moment I seem to be able to get two uses of dark transformation before a appoc and da is back up. A few more dc and dt is ready for them again.

Army is up for every alternate appoc da dt combo.

As we get more gear this might outweigh the fps loss from a different but higher level trinket?

[MrTastix]

Honestly, the worst part isn't that it's necessary. It's that it might be nerfed in the future but Unstable Arcanocrystal, a trinket almost every class wants a good roll of, won't ever be.

[RuneDK]

Honestly, the worst part isn't that it's necessary. It's that it might be nerfed in the future but Unstable Arcanocrystal, a trinket almost every class wants a good roll of, won't ever be.

I honestly think it should have other drop sources than withered ji'im and relinquished. Only because it's so good for numerous classes...but they can't really do much to change arcanocrystal. It's easy to nerf cof...all they need to do is adjust the proc rate for every class to make it proc significantly less.....they're not going to reduce the secondaries of the arcanocrystal.