Ret Paladin's which one would you choose?

[SnorlaxJeng]

7.2.5 is out and to some it is a letdown some other not so. But as we go forward we too have the rights to dream for changes come 7.3!

If given a choice which of the following you would rather see implemented?

Tier 1 talent:
-Final Verdict No changes
-Execution Sentence now affected by Templar Verdict's damage buffs and causes all damage done during the buff timer to be duplicated for an additional 50% at the end of the timer. Dispelling Execution Sentence causes the initial damage and stored damage thus far to be dealt instantly for 2 times the amount.
-Consecration now follows the paladin and is affected by Judgement and Righteous Verdict multiplier.

Tier 2 Talent:
-Fire of Justice now causes the next Holy Power consumer to deal 33% more damage.
-Zeal now deals Holy damage
-Greater Judgement now causes Judgement to be affected by Judgement debuff and consumes Righteous Verdict buff to guarantee a critical.

Tier 3 Talent:
-Fist of Justice also removes the GCD requirement
-Repentence cast removed
-Blinding Light now a 40y cone effect.

Tier 4 talent:
-Old Divine Hammer damage reverted and buffed not affected by judgement.
-Blade of Wrath causes Blade of Justice to do HOLY damage and affected by judgement.
-Virtue's Blade reducing the CD of Judgement by 50%, critical damage of all source by 50%, Critical damage of Judgement and Blade of Justice by 100%.

Tier 5 talent:
-Justicar's Vengeance is now affected by Templar Verdict's damage multipliers.
-Eye for an eye now reflects all damage taken in the form of Holy damage to all targets withing 5 yards of the target. If cast on an enemy, amplifies all damage done by the enemy to himself and his allies within 5 yards evenly.
-Word of Glory now has 2 charge, using Word of Glory without charges requires 3 holy power. Using Word of Glory on an ally heals the paladin for 50% the amount.

Tier 6 talent:
-Divine Intervention causes the excess killing blow damage plus 20% of the Paladin's Max HP to the person landing the killing blow and his allies within 10 yards.
-Cavalier is now passive which causes the Paladin to remove all snares and mount up for 200% movement speed for 2 seconds after casting Judgement
-Judgement of Light renamed Judgement of the Bold now causes each holy power spent to reduce the cooldown of Blessing of Protection by 2 seconds and Divine Protection and Lay of Hands by 1 second. Effect is doubled when the Paladin is under the effect of Forbearance.

Tier 7 talent:
-Divine Purpose causes your next holy power spender to be free and hit twice.
-Crusade max buff back to 50% Haste and Damage
-Holy Wrath now has no cooldown. Instead releases all damage done by the Paladin stored up to a maximum of 120% Max HP. PvP maximum of 20% Max HP. Affected by Judgement debuff.

[Deleted]

So you just slapped ridiculous buffs on all talents?

It's pretty hard to say seen how this would require A LOT of calculations...

[SnorlaxJeng]

I'd imagine I just put more Mastery interaction and making less attractive skills/useless ones to be at least a contender.

[Jester Joe]

I mean, I don't disagree with talents needing some changing.

But this would probably make Ret literally broken. I could only imagine the horrors of a Crusade+Cavalier in PvP.

[Schattenlied]

we would be absurdly overpowered with these changes.

[SnorlaxJeng]

we would be absurdly overpowered with these changes.

I am curious as to which part is considered overpowered. Since you have to drop one to get another. Tell me how in what scenario would you think it be OP?

[Schattenlied]

Tier 1 talent:
-Final Verdict No changes
-Execution Sentence now affected by Templar Verdict's damage buffs and causes all damage done during the buff timer to be duplicated for an additional 50% at the end of the timer. Dispelling Execution Sentence causes the initial damage and stored damage thus far to be dealt instantly for 2 times the amount.
-Consecration now follows the paladin and is affected by Judgement and Righteous Verdict multiplier.

-FV becomes a completely dead talent.

-Execution sentence does far too much damage in this situation, far, far too much.

-Consecration is already a DPS increase on 2 targets over FV, it doesn't need the judgment/RV interactions at all, all it needs is the "moves with the player" part... If you want to make it fit in the rotation better, make it generate 1 holy power.

Tier 2 Talent:
-Fire of Justice now causes the next Holy Power consumer to deal 33% more damage.
-Zeal now deals Holy damage
-Greater Judgement now causes Judgement to be affected by Judgement debuff and consumes Righteous Verdict buff to guarantee a critical.

This is the only row that isn't OP, maybe. Fires of Justice change would still likely be too bursty and result in PvP nerfs, so no.

Tier 3 Talent:
-Fist of Justice also removes the GCD requirement
-Repentence cast removed
-Blinding Light now a 40y cone effect.

-FoJ change is 100% unnecessary, it is already the best talent on the row and already plenty strong.

-Repentance change I can agree with.

-Blinding Light, no, 40y cone is too large of a CC, we don't need Paladins to be able to CC the entire Battleground at the same time. Needs a reduced CD at most, not a larger effect.

Tier 4 talent:
-Old Divine Hammer damage reverted and buffed not affected by judgement.
-Blade of Wrath causes Blade of Justice to do HOLY damage and affected by judgement.
-Virtue's Blade reducing the CD of Judgement by 50%, critical damage of all source by 50%, Critical damage of Judgement and Blade of Justice by 100%.

-No, it was nerfed for a reason, it was overperforming.

-Too much burst damage.

-WAY too much burst damage

Tier 5 talent:
-Justicar's Vengeance is now affected by Templar Verdict's damage multipliers.
-Eye for an eye now reflects all damage taken in the form of Holy damage to all targets withing 5 yards of the target. If cast on an enemy, amplifies all damage done by the enemy to himself and his allies within 5 yards evenly.
-Word of Glory now has 2 charge, using Word of Glory without charges requires 3 holy power. Using Word of Glory on an ally heals the paladin for 50% the amount.

-Agree.

- OP as hell, reflect damage to 1 target, not all targets.

-Agree

Tier 6 talent:
-Divine Intervention causes the excess killing blow damage plus 20% of the Paladin's Max HP to the person landing the killing blow and his allies within 10 yards.
-Cavalier is now passive which causes the Paladin to remove all snares and mount up for 200% movement speed for 2 seconds after casting Judgement
-Judgement of Light renamed Judgement of the Bold now causes each holy power spent to reduce the cooldown of Blessing of Protection by 2 seconds and Divine Protection and Lay of Hands by 1 second. Effect is doubled when the Paladin is under the effect of Forbearance.

-OP as hell.

-OP as hell, we need better mobility, but a 200% sprint every 8 seconds is OP as fuck, we do not need that

-OP as hell in PvP, BoP is already really strong. LoH isn't a consideration because it's not usable in RBGs/Arenas anyways... Not sure how it would effect PvE.

Tier 7 talent:
-Divine Purpose causes your next holy power spender to be free and hit twice.
-Crusade max buff back to 50% Haste and Damage
-Holy Wrath now has no cooldown. Instead releases all damage done by the Paladin stored up to a maximum of 120% Max HP. PvP maximum of 20% Max HP. Affected by Judgement debuff.

-Way too much burst damage, and too much damage period. The math here has already been done, all DP needs to compete with Crusade is for it to make the next spender do 25% more damage... Free and hit twice (100% more damage) is WAY TOO MUCH.

- Crusade is strong enough already, what is wrong with you.

- No, too much burst.



You don't want us to be competitive, you want us to be top dog, by a lot... Very few of these suggestions are reasonable.

[SnorlaxJeng]

So with that said. Most of the issues are not mechanically flawed but numerically high. So would this level it down?

Changelog:

-Execution Sentence final burst deals 30% damage dealt. 30% more damage on dispel.
-Consecration does not benefit from Judgement effects. Generates 2 Holy Power.

-Fire of Justice ONLY causes next finisher to deal 33% more damage. No more Holy Power reduction.

-Fist of Justice off GCD removed. Instead jumps to a nearby target in line of sight. (2 Targets MAX)
-Blinding Light cone is now 20y range.

-Eye for an Eye damage can be soaked by team mates. (Not usable on targets above 2 levels of the caster. Cannot deal more than 20% of the caster's Max HP per instance)

-Divine Intervention only deals the excess killing blow damage + 10% of the Paladin's HP to the landing blow player.
-Cavalier now provides a snare suppression (100% move speed lowest reduction) and provides 50% move speed for 2 seconds on Judgement.
-Judgement of Light/Bold now only reduces cooldown per holy power (4/2/2 seconds) for 30 seconds after using the 3 forbearance causing skills

-Divine Purpose causes your next Holy power spender to be free and deal 30% more damage.
-Crusade now provides 45% Haste and damage. Stacks caps at 10 Holy power consumed.
-Holy Wrath now stores up to 80% of the Paladin's MaxHP in damage. PvP only deals 15% of the Paladin's Max HP (still need to do 80% of the Paladin's MaxHP for the 15%)

[Winterstrife]

Instead of talent changes I want to see our mastery fixed for good, its been shit since the start of Legion, if they can't think of a better replacement just revert it back to the flat holy damage increase, so many other specs have the same mastery (Unholy DKs, BM Hunters, etc) why can't they just stick to what isn't broken?

OT: As some have pointed out, seems too OP (looking at most of your suggestions which adds dmg to our utility spells/talents) which probably just gonna result in a nerf bat to the face when the PvPers starts their QQ, good fan fiction though but not feasible.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Instead of talent changes I want to see our mastery fixed for good, its been shit since the start of Legion, if they can't think of a better replacement just revert it back to the flat holy damage increase, so many other specs have the same mastery (Unholy DKs, BM Hunters, etc) why can't they just stick to what isn't broken?

OT: As some have pointed out, seems too OP (looking at most of your suggestions which adds dmg to our utility spells/talents) which probably just gonna result in a nerf bat to the face when the PvPers starts their QQ, good fan fiction though but not feasible.

Such changes normally would make Mastery king over all other stat. As per the classes you mentioned along with Arms warrior, Enhancement shaman. I wouldn't want to go pack to a slug pace rotation due to the priority being Mastery>Haste>Crit>Versa

[Master Guns]

I mean, do you understand that Blizzard won't be doing any of this? So why make it up? And why comment? What's the relevance?