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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Is that what you got from Carney's speech?

    Anyway, I am sure this will make you happy - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40433450
    Can't say the Eurocrats weren't given fair warning after Camerons attempts 2 years ago. The EU is following the the predictable five stages of grief - we have been through the anger and denial, probably at the bargaining and depression stage, soon will be at acceptance.

    Then the realism over the 60 billion, no 100 billion supposed EU exit bill will come with the UK counter claim. Just a shame the Eurocrats weren't prepared surely they had enough time. What a mess.

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...n-brexit-bill/

    Strong and stable, steady as we go.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  2. #22
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natylyaz View Post
    One year after the referendum, the economy of the UK has taken a hit:


    (source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...daily-chart-18)

    I really have to leave this country before Brexit actually happens, Theresa won't save us.
    Wow, no one ever forecasted this to happen. You mean an isolationist economy and immigration system lowers the quality of life for all people in the country. No shit.

  3. #23
    The most intreseting part about all of this is what Bank of England has done to interest rates and the inflation rates.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Can't say the Eurocrats weren't given fair warning after Camerons attempts 2 years ago. The EU is following the the predictable five stages of grief - we have been through the anger and denial, probably at the bargaining and depression stage, soon will be at acceptance.

    Then the realism over the 60 billion, no 100 billion supposed EU exit bill will come with the UK counter claim. Just a shame the Eurocrats weren't prepared surely they had enough time. What a mess.



    https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...n-brexit-bill/

    Strong and stable, steady as we go.
    lol you completely failed the moment you used that miserable slogan

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    lol you completely failed the moment you used that miserable slogan
    Its really in vogue you know, even the EU are pinching and using it in todays future ideas for funding document. Strong, stable mentioned many times.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...inances_en.pdf

    I do feel sorry for the Euros having seen the Italian finance guru Mario Montis reported proposals on making up the UK lost contributions. The idea seems to be that on top of state income tax citizens will pay an EU income tax. So a worked example could look like for the Netherlands if you earn more than 67000 euro annually you pay 52% tax to the Dutch government, then on top another 10% income tax direct to the EU, giving a total income tax rate of 62%.

    Another idea, hopefully not borrowed from the way his Italian banks are being run, is to impose an eu % sales tax on top of any state charged VAT or equivalent. Another is electricity bill surcharges or carbon taxes , financial transaction taxes, etc etc it's a frightening list for membership of an expensive club that goes on and on.

    Not sure how those will go down EU wide, or how it will affect or crush the european economy and its over taxed citizens, but looks like we had a lucky escape.

    No wonder our economy is booming as outside EU investors are flocking to the strong and stable soon to be off shore tax haven of the UK.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Wow, no one ever forecasted this to happen. You mean an isolationist economy and immigration system lowers the quality of life for all people in the country. No shit.
    Consider what would happen to the Californian economy if the state voted to separate from the US, and throw up trade walls to the now separate US. It would be a total economic catastrophe and the Californian economy would crash fast and hard, and large number of businesses would relocate.

    Now apply that thinking to the UK and the EU. Its a nobrainer what will happen. But we all know Trumpists are generally the less intelligent among us and those that aren't are ideologues who have trouble with reality, so its no surprise the UK's equivalent lot are Turkey's who voted for Christmas. My sympathy isn't with them. It's with the poor sods who will be harmed due to their stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Its really in vogue you know, even the EU are pinching and using it in todays future ideas for funding document. Strong, stable mentioned many times.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...inances_en.pdf

    I do feel sorry for the Euros having seen the Italian finance guru Mario Montis reported proposals on making up the UK lost contributions. The idea seems to be that on top of state income tax citizens will pay an EU income tax. So a worked example could look like for the Netherlands if you earn more than 67000 euro annually you pay 52% tax to the Dutch government, then on top another 10% income tax direct to the EU, giving a total income tax rate of 62%.

    Another idea, hopefully not borrowed from the way his Italian banks are being run, is to impose an eu % sales tax on top of any state charged VAT or equivalent. Another is electricity bill surcharges or carbon taxes , financial transaction taxes, etc etc it's a frightening list for membership of an expensive club that goes on and on.

    Not sure how those will go down EU wide, or how it will affect or crush the european economy and its over taxed citizens, but looks like we had a lucky escape.

    No wonder our economy is booming as outside EU investors are flocking to the strong and stable soon to be off shore tax haven of the UK.
    They (foreigners) are buying up shit its so cheap.....not because of that failed add slogan

    Not sure if you think that foreigners buying everything up when the whole brexit thing was nothing but ranting against foreigners....god dam sad in the spin zone

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Destump View Post
    I'd say those are acceptable sacrifices, getting the power back to choose their own future as a nation in return.
    But the UK just spent a year demonstrating that choosing things is something it's exceptionally bad at.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    But the UK just spent a year demonstrating that choosing things is something it's exceptionally bad at.
    Even if you say that it's one bad decision after another but what about ''brown'' people heeeeee.

    Sure digging you're own grave isn't fun but as long as that you're grave and no brown people are close by then eventually it's FREEDOM

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Its really in vogue you know, even the EU are pinching and using it in todays future ideas for funding document. Strong, stable mentioned many times.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...inances_en.pdf
    The slogan strong and stable is not once in this document.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I do feel sorry for the Euros having seen the Italian finance guru Mario Montis reported proposals on making up the UK lost contributions. The idea seems to be that on top of state income tax citizens will pay an EU income tax. So a worked example could look like for the Netherlands if you earn more than 67000 euro annually you pay 52% tax to the Dutch government, then on top another 10% income tax direct to the EU, giving a total income tax rate of 62%.

    Another idea, hopefully not borrowed from the way his Italian banks are being run, is to impose an eu % sales tax on top of any state charged VAT or equivalent. Another is electricity bill surcharges or carbon taxes , financial transaction taxes, etc etc it's a frightening list for membership of an expensive club that goes on and on.

    Not sure how those will go down EU wide, or how it will affect or crush the european economy and its over taxed citizens, but looks like we had a lucky escape.
    How much does it cost an average citizen of the EU for the EU to run? Was it something like 150€ a year? Damn what an expensive club.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No wonder our economy is booming as outside EU investors are flocking to the strong and stable soon to be off shore tax haven of the UK.
    Your economy isn't booming and outside EU investors aren't flocking to the strong and stable, not anytime soon as you have only a market of 60 mio people to offer and nothing more. An off shore tax haven you say? Wow, you're going to become a tax haven, well now that will really help your country.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #30
    The Patient Natylyaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It is not just manufacturing or exports though. Just looking at what today that eminent economist bank of england governor mark carney said about the economy overall and how if the UK continues to boom too quickly, interest rates may need to rise in the near future to try and control it.

    Doesn't the future look bright? Why on earth would you leave, in fact it is so attractive for business here because of Brexit I don't believe you ever will.
    Are you deliberately ignoring the indicators provided by the economist? The value of the pound, the price of goods and real earnings have worsened, and these directly impact the majority of Britons.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    Consider what would happen to the Californian economy if the state voted to separate from the US, and throw up trade walls to the now separate US. It would be a total economic catastrophe and the Californian economy would crash fast and hard, and large number of businesses would relocate.

    Now apply that thinking to the UK and the EU. Its a nobrainer what will happen. But we all know Trumpists are generally the less intelligent among us and those that aren't are ideologues who have trouble with reality, so its no surprise the UK's equivalent lot are Turkey's who voted for Christmas. My sympathy isn't with them. It's with the poor sods who will be harmed due to their stupidity.
    Yes it would be bad if the UK threw up trade walls with the EU... good job not a single UK politician is proposing that.

    You would honestly describe the current position of the UK as evidence of an economy crashing 'fast and hard'? I dread to think how you would describe the state of some other economies if thats the case.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinch View Post
    Yes it would be bad if the UK threw up trade walls with the EU... good job not a single UK politician is proposing that.

    You would honestly describe the current position of the UK as evidence of an economy crashing 'fast and hard'? I dread to think how you would describe the state of some other economies if thats the case.
    Reverting back to WTO would feel like trade walls with the EU, trust me. I think some people need to try this out to realize just how beneficial the EU was for them.
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  13. #33
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    How much does it cost an average citizen of the EU for the EU to run? Was it something like 150€ a year? Damn what an expensive club.
    You say 150 euro a year, a professor of economics at Cardiff university says it costs the average household over £9000 a year. I know who is more believeable.
    http://www.cityam.com/233671/eu-refe...hold-each-year

    Quote Originally Posted by Natylyaz View Post
    Are you deliberately ignoring the indicators provided by the economist? The value of the pound, the price of goods and real earnings have worsened, and these directly impact the majority of Britons.
    The pound is now near fair value, inflation is close to target. What would impact the majority of Britons is inflation in excess of 10% as has been the case in previous Labour governments. But Corbyn lost so that won't happen. Nothing to see here except carry on with strength and stability.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  14. #34
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You say 150 euro a year, a professor of economics at Cardiff university says it costs the average household over £9000 a year. I know who is more believeable.
    http://www.cityam.com/233671/eu-refe...hold-each-year
    That would 25 billion pounds, double the amount the UK contributes to the EU budget. Yeah that number must be true then.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The pound is now near fair value, inflation is close to target. What would impact the majority of Britons is inflation in excess of 10% as has been the case in previous Labour governments. But Corbyn lost so that won't happen. Nothing to see here except carry on with strength and stability.
    You are aware (who am i kidding?) that you're a net-import country? A weak currency is pretty bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natylyaz View Post
    Are you deliberately ignoring the indicators provided by the economist? The value of the pound, the price of goods and real earnings have worsened, and these directly impact the majority of Britons.
    I'm not sticking up for the Brexiteers here let's make that clear-they are 80% xenophobic scum.

    That said using these indicators doesn't really tell you much.

    To my mind it is very debatable whether a strong pound is a good thing. It was strong because of the city and finance. That's great if you are a banker. For the rest of industry it sucks. If you run a manufacturing business it really sucks because you can't export profitably. If brexit means all the bankers clear off and we stop subsidizing them with our taxes then I'll take that as a win.

    The price of goods is a concern but it was going up anyway. We'll see how much further it goes.

    Real earnings have been static since the 70's. This is not a Brexit issue. All the benefits of economic growth have been going to the 1%. This is a big part of the problem with assessing the impact on the economy of Brexit-for most people economic growth is completely meaningless anyway. A lot of Brexit votes came from people who, yes, hated Poles reflexively, but also were just utterly frustrated with their lives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    Consider what would happen to the Californian economy if the state voted to separate from the US, and throw up trade walls to the now separate US. It would be a total economic catastrophe and the Californian economy would crash fast and hard, and large number of businesses would relocate.

    Now apply that thinking to the UK and the EU. Its a nobrainer what will happen. But we all know Trumpists are generally the less intelligent among us and those that aren't are ideologues who have trouble with reality, so its no surprise the UK's equivalent lot are Turkey's who voted for Christmas. My sympathy isn't with them. It's with the poor sods who will be harmed due to their stupidity.
    If California (or the UK) set itself up as a tax haven then all the billionaires would flock to it and they'd make a lot of money the same way Monaco or Luxembourg does.

    I thought this was what the Tories were going to do: it is an obvious solution. However they seem too stupid to even think of this: they seem to be out-of-touch public schoolboys who got in positions they didn't deserve because of their parental advantages.

    The problem with the Monaco solution is that the rest of the economy would suffer: everyone outside London would be permanently poor by modern standards. Nontheless the government could get away with it because they'd be posting record economic growth figures and finance/media would support it.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You are aware (who am i kidding?) that you're a net-import country? A weak currency is pretty bad.
    What's bad is being a net-import country. A weaker but fair value currency discourages imports and incentivises home grown manufacturers. The sooner we stop importing so much European rubbish the better off we will be, the worse off Europe will be.

    A fair value currency is ideal.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Reverting back to WTO would feel like trade walls with the EU, trust me. I think some people need to try this out to realize just how beneficial the EU was for them.
    Agreed that WTO rules would feel that way (although still wouldn't lead to an 'economic crash', mind), but does anyone honestly expect that to be the final outcome?

  18. #38
    I think our government gambling around with the population going into Brexit hasn't helped either, financially the country needs some kind of reliability and we've not provided any for a long time now.

    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    Still really too early to see how this plays out.

    I think it will play out extremely badly but you need to look at this in five years time to be certain.
    Agreed, but I think 5 years is probably too short for certainty but should hold a general idea of the direction and I think we should be happy if that direction is flat to be honest
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  19. #39
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinch View Post
    Agreed that WTO rules would feel that way (although still wouldn't lead to an 'economic crash', mind), but does anyone honestly expect that to be the final outcome?
    WTO rules would not be bad for the UK, but terrible for Europe. Most of the stuff we export to the EU under WTO is low or tariff free. Most of the stuff we import from the EU, like cars, agricultural products is high tariff.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    To be fair there are obviously a number of factors in wage decreases and I'd like to see the impact of Brexit separated from the random noise in a comprehensive study.
    The wage decreases are actually real wages, that is to say inflation adjusted - And that can be tied squarely to Brexit (the 10% drop in sterling after the vote, and the QE + interest rate cut.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Destump View Post
    I'd say those are acceptable sacrifices, getting the power back to choose their own future as a nation in return.
    A castaway on an island is a sovereign man.
    I just don't get why people even accept the EU getting more and more powerful,
    Because we don't have a political class that blames everything (especially things they voted for in the council) on the EU.
    and I'd say un-democratic(ignoring multiple referendums etc).
    renegotiating a treaty to alleviate the concerns of the electorate is not un-democratic, or ignoring the electorate (and more importantly, NOT something the EU is responsible for.)
    EU officials just aren't accountable enough,
    Please explain to me how your bureaucrats are accountable.
    and they act like it. Now, if the EU changed so that we can vote out people like Juncker etc more easily
    You do know that Junker is as easy to vote out of office as Theresa May is?

    The EU was made as a peace project, and maybe an economic one. It was NOT ment to become a nation,
    It was from the very fucking start a political Union.
    Always - Never anything else.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You say 150 euro a year, a professor of economics at Cardiff university says it costs the average household over £9000 a year. I know who is more believeable.
    You do know that cant be true? - Like literally Cannot.
    just quickly mathing that out, would mean that the UK contribution to the budget would be greater than the entire EU budget.
    The pound is now near fair value, inflation is close to target. What would impact the majority of Britons is inflation in excess of 10% as has been the case in previous Labour governments. But Corbyn lost so that won't happen. Nothing to see here except carry on with strength and stability.
    What do you mean by 'fair value' ? Do you mean to suggest that the EU membership increased the value of the pound by making the UK a more interesting investment opportunity than it otherwise would have been? (cos i'm not sure how that makes for a brexit argument).
    Oh and inflation is at 3% way above target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    WTO rules would not be bad for the UK, but terrible for Europe. Most of the stuff we export to the EU under WTO is low or tariff free. Most of the stuff we import from the EU, like cars, agricultural products is high tariff.
    You do know most of the stuff you export to the EU is services?
    (that aren't covered by the WTO).
    More importantly, EU GDP depends on UK exports to the Tune of 3%.
    UK on the other hand derive 15% of its GDP selling shit to the EU.
    Maths says any pain felt will be felt hardest by the UK, and by the fewest people.
    Any pain felt by the EU will be felt by more, and be less.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2017-06-29 at 12:05 PM.

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