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  1. #41
    Guys ! Everyone forgot the most important thing to notice in that video !
    Genji needs healing.
    Very hyped that he's finally arrived. He looks very tankish according to this video.
    If you have to attack a person instead of what they're saying, then you've already lost the argument.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHandsB View Post
    Orisa says hi
    Sombra and Doomfist say hi back, where's the next defensive hero fam?

  3. #43
    Vi from League of Legends would like a word with Doomfist.

    It's going to be interesting to see how his gameplay works with the plethora of ranged characters he must fight against. Dive comp just got another baddie though!

  4. #44
    Seagull is streaming Doomfist on the PTR is anyone wants to see how to play him.

    https://www.twitch.tv/a_seagull

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    Although mei may seem a counter but I feel his real counter is pharah, he can't touch her unless she flies low enough to be hit by his left click, otherwise he's somewhat in a similar situation to junkrat.

    Also some have stated orisa is a good counter to him, coz she can avoid being knocked around and can pull him off people.
    He is weak against her but he does have an uppercut for some verticality and his knuckle guns are good enough at midrange. I watched Seagull charge out of a doorway with rocket punch and accidentally onshot her.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  6. #46
    Pandaren Monk Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Is it me or does doomfist resemble cyborg a bit from the titans.
    It don't matter to me I just drive the damn bus!
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    From what I could find, the Witch Doctor's voice actor is Carl Lumbly, while Doomfist's voice actor is Sahr Ngaujah.
    Interesting! I've been watching a Doomfist stream and they actually sound the same to me.

    It's the accent I guess.

  8. #48
    Fluffy Kitten Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I agree he doesn't really do anything for current comp concerns, but I am not sure that he needs to. Overwatch has enough heroes at this point that it doesn't really need anything in terms of hero design.
    I can't agree. Maybe it's that I'm a Support main, but most games I'm in still want 2 healers, and we've only got 4 healers for those spots. So realistically, in any game, I've got a choice of one of three heroes (since someone else is also playing Support, I assume).

    That leaves me VERY limited options for swapping to adjust for the enemy team's comp without hosing my team by playing something other than support (and anyone who takes over will face the same issues).

    I've done this before, but let's look at it from a comp perspective. The basic comps in use have traditionally been (in DPS/tank/support) either a 2/2/2 baseline, or a 1/3/2 triple-tank. 3/1/2 is gaining more popularity recently with dive comps.

    In terms of the hero roster, the distribution is;
    DPS (offense + defense+Symmetra): 14
    Tanks: 6
    Healers: 4

    So that's 14 heroes for 1, 2, or 3 DPS slots. At the worst, you've got better than four times (4.66, exactly) as many heroes as there are slots, with three DPS heroes in the mix; the other comps have even better options.

    For tanks, it's also 1-3 slots, but only 6, so at worst, just twice as many heroes as slots. And in many comps, it's much better than that.

    And for healers, it's almost always twice as many heroes as slots, with very little variation. Even if you go with a single healer, compared to any of the other comps at their most favorable, you still have less options.

    This is why I think there's an issue, somewhat with tanks, but especially with healers. There's very little counterplay to be had. You can pretty comfortably "main" a healer and they're always at least an okay pick, because none of the other options outshine you that spectacularly. The one small distinction is that you generally want one of either Mercy/Ana, since a Zen/Lucio combo can have low healing overall, but with the right hero support (like Roadhog/Soldier 76) and good play, that can be minimized. Some maps might favor Lucio because he can boop people off cliffs, and an enemy Pharah makes Zen or Ana a slightly better choice, but these are really minor effects compared to how big things swing with other roles. A Winston when the enemy team is running a Reaper and sticks together is just probably a bad pick; that doesn't happen with healers so much.

    Additionally, I'm not sure if it's feasible to release heroes based on the current meta and comp needs anyway, since heroes take so long to develop that you can't really predict what the community will feel it "needs" by the time you get around to releasing it. Maybe they were thinking of him when the three tank meta was popular (he would be pretty good at busting that up) but he just happens to get done when everyone is runny dive.
    I understand that, and Ana was desperately needed when she launched, but I think part of the issue is that they're insisting on only releasing one hero every 3 months or so. And they have other plans around that stuff. But by way of example, Hammond. There was no hint of that guy until very recently. That makes him a bit different from Sombra and Doomfist, who had in-lore existence before they got launched. Ana came out of nowhere the same way.

    I think the original hero roster was done with an expectation of a 4/1/1 comp, with occasional 3/2/1. The original roster would've had 13 DPS, 5 tanks, and 3 healers; with a 4/1/1 that's 3.25 heroes per role, 5, and 3, and with a 3/2/1 it's 4.33, 2.5, and 3. That's a lot more balanced than what we see. Once it became clear that two healers was going to be how this worked (which it is, because if a solo healer drops, the team collapses from attrition if nothing else, especially on defense), they should've tweaked their planned hero release to adjust this somewhat.

    It wouldn't take THAT much, honestly. Just launch two healers at once. Find a way to tie them together in the lore; maybe there's a brother/sister combo or something, or two healers who are major enemies (or a brother/sister who are major enemies). Give them wildly different mechanics. If you're worried about the effect of two new heroes on Comp, just give them an extra few weeks before they get unleashed there, or something.

  9. #49
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    no where near as mobile as Genji
    I don't know that this is true. He doesn't have wall climb or doublejump but the cooldowns of his abilities are short enough that I would say he's probably more mobile than genji. Genji's charge is 8 second CD. Doomfist's leap is 7. They go about as far. Doomfist also has his punch on a 4 second CD which can propel him a decent distance. And he can pair any of those with his uppercut for verticality.

    I mean, maybe wall climb and double jump are worth enough that you could argue Genji's mobility is more useful, but I think Doomfists kit still puts him as solid competition.

    Ult seems extremely predictable to avoid.
    To be fair, this is already the case for a huge percentage of ults in the game.
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  10. #50
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    Although mei may seem a counter but I feel his real counter is pharah, he can't touch her unless she flies low enough to be hit by his left click, otherwise he's somewhat in a similar situation to junkrat.

    Also some have stated orisa is a good counter to him, coz she can avoid being knocked around and can pull him off people.
    Sombra just shuts him down completely.

  11. #51
    Over 9000! FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    sigh, another damage dealer... I guess it makes sense that he would be but god damn do we need another one right now?
    4 heros added
    1 support
    1 damage
    1 tank
    1 damage
    and your complaining "wow blizz so many damage dealers woooow"
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    4 heros added
    1 support
    1 damage
    1 tank
    1 damage
    and your complaining "wow blizz so many damage dealers woooow"
    yeah, thanks for reinforcing my point, I guess?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    4 heros added
    1 support
    1 damage
    1 tank
    1 damage
    and your complaining "wow blizz so many damage dealers woooow"
    I think it's more that if you put defense heroes with offense there is a great many more damage than tank or support. Adding more damage dealers is a downer for people wanting more tanks and/or support choices.

  14. #54
    Over 9000! FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I think it's more that if you put defense heroes with offense there is a great many more damage than tank or support. Adding more damage dealers is a downer for people wanting more tanks and/or support choices.
    groups are meant to be more damage to support and healers
    its like in wow you want more damage specs then healers and tank, because groups need less tanks and healers then dps

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    yeah, thanks for reinforcing my point, I guess?
    does no one understand how tank/heal/dps works?

    you want more damage then tanks/heals, meaning that games must make more dps then heal and tank, that way it naturallly pushes more people to them


    lets say the game has 10 people on a team

    if there is 10 dps class, 10 healer classes, and 10 tank classes
    by pure logic of probability the 10 man team would be
    3 tank
    3 dps
    3 heals
    and an extra
    but that is a fucking HORRIBLE team

    now if you have 5 tanks, 5 heals, and 20 dps then by probability about
    2 tanks
    2 heals
    6 dps
    a much better, MUCH better team
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Me too!

  15. #55
    I like his lore, he seems really fun to play, but I'm not sure how a melee-centric Hero will fare in Overwatch. Seems like a good Mei will shut him down handily, and Tracer can just dance around him. He also joins the list of heroes that can basically do nothing to Pharah.

    I'm unsure as to how he can counter dive comps, if anything he would be a part of them. Sometimes replacing Genji perhaps as, unlike everyone's favorite cyborg, he looks to have enough DPS to bash heads with tanks up close. But here's hoping he doesn't end up like Orisa, a cool concept that is basically too weak to work in most cases.

    Regardless, he's another excuse to boot up Overwatch again until I get bored of it.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    does no one understand how tank/heal/dps works?

    you want more damage then tanks/heals, meaning that games must make more dps then heal and tank, that way it naturallly pushes more people to them


    lets say the game has 10 people on a team

    if there is 10 dps class, 10 healer classes, and 10 tank classes
    by pure logic of probability the 10 man team would be
    3 tank
    3 dps
    3 heals
    and an extra
    but that is a fucking HORRIBLE team

    now if you have 5 tanks, 5 heals, and 20 dps then by probability about
    2 tanks
    2 heals
    6 dps
    a much better, MUCH better team
    this.... isn't wow.. also I want a new defensive hero buuuut whatever I guess that doesn't factor in at all for you.

  17. #57
    Over 9000! FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    this.... isn't wow.. also I want a new defensive hero buuuut whatever I guess that doesn't factor in at all for you.
    defencive offencive really doesent mean shit you know that right? it is just blizz recomendation, but whatever

    what your gunna tell me is symetra is a real support arnt you?
    that genji, sombra, soldier, traver, reaper, pharah can all ONLY be played on offencive.
    that bastion, hanzo, junkrat, mei, torb, and widow can ONLY be played on defence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Domoda View Post
    I was a "Warlock main" In vanilla and i think soulshards disappeared upon logging out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Me too!

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    defencive offencive really doesent mean shit you know that right? it is just blizz recomendation, but whatever

    what your gunna tell me is symetra is a real support arnt you?
    that genji, sombra, soldier, traver, reaper, pharah can all ONLY be played on offencive.
    that bastion, hanzo, junkrat, mei, torb, and widow can ONLY be played on defence.
    oh god piss off. this isn't a game about pure damage output it's about what characters/roles are best at countering others. oh wow yet another fucking dive/flanker hero to go along with the 5 other ones, yipppieeee.
    Last edited by Sky High; 2017-07-06 at 09:36 PM.

  19. #59
    The only time a characters listing ever effects a game is when it is arcade all support or all tank. Otherwise it doesn't mean jack shit in a game and you guys really need to get over what group a character is in. I mean yeah, if you could only have 1 tank on a team or 1 support it would make a difference which char was in which group but that isn't this game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Seeing that big fist on screen reminds me of Atticus from battleborn. I enjoyed Attikus in pve content.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  20. #60
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I can't agree. Maybe it's that I'm a Support main, but most games I'm in still want 2 healers, and we've only got 4 healers for those spots. So realistically, in any game, I've got a choice of one of three heroes (since someone else is also playing Support, I assume).
    (also, Sombra. You can single heal with a Sombra, especially if you have strong flanking)

    You're still talking about a want for diversity's sake. That's not the same as an actual need. There are no situations now where anyone is like "ugh, none of these healers work with this comp, what we really need is a healer that heals through [manner X.]" I'm all in favour of adding more heroes for more options, especially in tank and support roles, but that will come in time.

    Of course, I also think support is sorta unique in that respect since they seem to be picked more based on your team comp and the map rather than based on enemy picks. Healers can be picked to counter particular threats but far less so. (Zen or Ana on a Pharah for example)

    You said we don't need a new short range hero because we need long range heroes to deal with issues like Pharah. But we have a lot of long range heroes already. We don't need more heroes to deal with Pharah. We need people to pick the heroes that exist to deal with Pharah, or to learn how to play them better together. The issue is not a lack of long range heroes. It's not a lack of hitscans. Would more long range heroes increase the odds of people picking them? Maybe, sure. Would more long range heroes perhaps make gameplay more fun for the guy who is sick of picking soldier over and over again? Probably. But there is no "we don't need this because it doesn't counter this other thing that we do need a counter for" because everything already has a counter.

    I'm simply saying that right now, in the current game, there is no ability gap that requires a certain type of hero kit be implemented in order to deal with it. In the current game, there are already multiple options that exist to respond to any opposing enemy. At this point, everything else is just for diversity or to increase options/flexibility. I agree that another DPS is not the most exciting or useful option since we already have too many people instalocking DPS. I agree that more options in tank or support roles would make selecting those more fun and perhaps motivate more people to try the roles. But I very much disagree that the game is lacking in particular hero types that need to be implemented to cover some sort of gap in countermeasures. At this point, I think Blizzard can be comfortable that there are enough counters for everything (given the current hero roster - that doesn't mean that will always be the case) and that they can implement just about any particular type of hero without feeling pressed to address a specific problem that needs a specific type of hero to fix it.

    I am pretty sure if it was the case that there was some sort of situation where a specific hero was needed to fill some kind of gap, people would be exploiting the fuck out of that at all levels of the game, but we just don't see that.

    especially with healers. There's very little counterplay to be had. You can pretty comfortably "main" a healer and they're always at least an okay pick, because none of the other options outshine you that spectacularly.
    That's more of an issue with healer design in the game in general.

    That leaves me VERY limited options for swapping to adjust for the enemy team's comp without hosing my team by playing something other than support.
    This is really a different issue. If you feel the need to swap to something other than support, it sounds like you are wanting to do something that you are not intended to do while on that role. That's an intentional limitation of the game, not a limited selection of healers.

    But it's possible I am misunderstanding your example. I think I'd need something more specific as an example than "I'm playing a support but I want to not play a support to help my team with something without giving up healing" in a way that shows there isn't someone else who is a better pick for swapping. It seems like what you're actually lamenting is not gaps in counters but the fact that you can't do one thing well without giving up another thing or the fact that you can only pick six heroes per team or the fact that you want to be able to better cover for incompetant teammates. Or you're asking for a healer that can also do great DPS? Which would probably make it a necessary pick and disrupt balance more than it would help anything.

    ANYWAY. I guess agree to disagree. I think everything has options for counters now and while there are certainly things I would like to see implemented, I've never encountered a situation where I felt like the best solution to a problem would be a new hero with a specific kit. But I'm also playing at gold, so maybe it's an issue with my rank.
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