Kil'jaeden hc time to give up?

[harruin]

Not everyone wants to invite scrubs who say they have got it to 10% before. You know why? Because everyone says that. There is no way to gauge how good a player is at the certain encounter you want them for apart from them having killed it or not and actually experienced every mechanic. I could give a fuck if you killed Mythic Gul'dan or whatever, if you haven't killed the boss I want you for then why should I risk taking you. Why does the raid size even matter to you? As long as it gets killed, remember it's still the first few weeks so alot of people still don't fully understand the encounter. Sounds like your butt hurt that you weren't getting invited to curve groups, but the majority of players that haven't killed the boss prior will not perform better than someone who has. People like to make the content as stress free and easy as possible and why shouldn't they? Deal with it.

Poor raid leadership is really hurting the pug experience for this tier. Earlier tiers people had a general sense of what to do and could just do it without much direction, but for most fights now you really need to raid lead as opposed to slamming ready check over and over again. Just as an example, I was in a heroic desolate where the raid leader said "okay, choose what side you want" and then nobody did anything for 2 minutes. A group of 920 AOTCs aren't going to just magically coordinate that, nor are they going to on KJ.

[Saverem]

Communication is key in order to kill KJ, especially H KJ. If you join a pug and they're not using Discord, then just leave, it's not happening. Even if everyone in the raid has AOTC, if they're not able to communicate on the fly, it's not gonna happen.

[KAMBO1431]

I'm at 150+ wipes on KJ Heroic in pugs without a kill. Closest is 8%.

Definitely the hardest heroic encounter I've ever faced. I hope they don't nerf/change Armageddon!
It is so unforgiving at ~920ilvl.

I find it real easy as a mage

[Amonthar]

The dps being pulled is irrelevant until the boss is killed. People can tunnel a boss and wipe and it look better than it actually is. This is a fight where some have to stop dps and just go soak something then get back to doing their job.

I have seen numerous wipes on normal due to people messing up the soak mechanic. You just need to replace people that can't perform a simple task.

[Deleted]

what? you guys cant move into fiery circles to soak and we wipe? what? no lets not talk about why we cant soak properly, who is failing the simple mechanic and why, i got a better idea! ill go bitch about it on forums instead!

[Deleted]

LOL! You made my day =)

Glad to hear that.

[seraphbreak]

I was able to down it once I changed my mentality about tunneling. You always expect other people to peel off the boss to soak, but realistically if everyone is actively looking and going, you will get the kill. Too many people care about their parses for the initial kill lol. Worry about parses once it's on farm.

[Myztikrice]

If they fail armageddon warn them, if they fail again kick them. Then keep inviting

[MrExcelion]

Starting to see fail KJ groups in normal this lockout, just gotta do it earlier in the week since less players have reason to do normal

[Osmeric]

I thought people people wanted bosses to be almost unkillable, some kind of a challenge.

They want the bosses to be hard for other people, not for themselves.

[Deleted]

I'm amazed pugs have the patience to progress on this boss. I applaud those that have cleared it but I would expect them to be the exception, not the rule.

[Saksy2]

Easy guide to this boss:

Bring less healers than usual or really good DPS. Do this and you can push second intermission before second tank add and most of the nasty ability overlaps. You don't need healers for this boss anyways unless you wanna heal through failed armageddon soaks. I suggest using 3 healers for a raid of 20 or 2 healers for a raid of 14-15.

Instakick armageddon failures or extremely low DPS and the boss should die in 10-15 pulls.

[Ebalina]

Easy guide to this boss:

Bring less healers than usual or really good DPS. Do this and you can push second intermission before second tank add and most of the nasty ability overlaps. You don't need healers for this boss anyways unless you wanna heal through failed armageddon soaks. I suggest using 3 healers for a raid of 20 or 2 healers for a raid of 14-15.

Instakick armageddon failures or extremely low DPS and the boss should die in 10-15 pulls.

That is asuming your tanks know what to do and don't get trucked like mofos.
That is also asuming the healers have any idea and are not slow pokes.
Rest is as you say.

[Deleted]

i did KJ HC the first ID with randoms without voicechat, so its clearly possible, people need to understand how this boss works.

[xcess]

yeah actually did it without voice the first time. Was also on the day just before reset so wasnt exepecting good people. I could tell it was a decent grp cos all the soaks were just done and people were quick to see any missing ones. Think pugs just dont soak cos they know they will be booted if their dps is low. But definetely stacking immune classes help a lot and also with p3

[VarianceWoW]

Deal with it means "lot of players are leaving this game because of toxicity in pug way of thinking" (I'm serious, I know many). Pug spirit is destroying the game right now (for a parallel, as it rots humanity in some firms in 2017), ToS has never been so exigeant in pug as it was for previous raid (kind of logic follow you would say). This is atricious right now, you don't raid the first week you are nearly stuck the next weeks because the 2nd one there is already 80% of "CURVE ONLY". This is fucking stupid especially when those groups (who are the majority) can stay for hours wihtout finding people sticking to the "rule".

And, let me laugh again, I saw those "curved", you can kill a boss without actually knowing much about it and I saw many curved doing either shit DPS or failing hard. But yeah I agree, this "leverages" the probability to find amongst them good people. Unfortunately, to the community you give a "possibility" they will exagerate it and take that as a common rule because "don't have time, we are consumer not provider" spirit => See: "ONLY RANGED" groups for Avatar, for example. Fault to Blizzard maybe but also community cause it's not like Mythic one has been killed with 4/5 rogues, you know.

Well OP is speaking about KJ HC difficulities, I'm answering with some of the explanations and some problems there are nowadays. I'm indeed upset finding no groups for Avatar because the ONLY RANGE group during two entire nights. Plus, there aren't many to be honest in pug right now, vast majority of people are still stuck with normal. Of course there are guilds and make your group solutions, I know. But I have my reasons after a 10+ day of leading teams at work (want to rest).

So is your argument that people should not be allowed to make requirements that they choose? Are you really arguing that there needs to be some gold standard for what is required for creating a pug? That's what LFR is for, blizzard creates the requirements and anyone who meets them can queue and can't be declined. Players who choose to make their own groups should be able to choose requirements however they see fit. If I want to make an all Paladin group requiring 940 ilvl and 7/9M achieve and only character names starting with A I should be allowed to do that. Please keep communism out of WoW thanks.