Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rda]

Man, 1 hour on Argus and I miss flying. Those horrible pathways and little hills that make you go round a hill and walk 100m more than needed is just awful game design.

Telling you, 7.3 is a fiasco similar to that of 7.2.

Legion at launch - OK, looks promising.
Legion 7.1 - OK, not too big, but not too small either, it arrived fast, there's hope after all, right? #iwanttobelieve
Legion 7.2 - nah, no hope.
Legion 7.3 - well... it's Blizzard, what did we expect...

Sometimes I wish they did something really stupid - like, for example, tried to monetize collections harder and, say, added battle pet raids and started charging extra for them. Since collections / achievements and stuff like that is more or less the only thing that keeps me returning from time to time, the additional stupidity in this area will just finally let me off the idiocy and the extreme greediness that is World of Warcraft of 2017.

[Ashenhoof]

[...]Since collections / achievements and stuff like that is more or less the only thing that keeps me returning from time to time, the additional stupidity in this area will just finally let me off the idiocy and the extreme greediness that is World of Warcraft of 2017.

Said the stupid idiot.

infracted

[rda]

I agree. Blizzard should only implement flat plateaus without vegetation, so you can run in straight lines and not be disturbed by silly things like hills. This would make everything better...

Imo if Blizzard would ever implement flying on Argus or any other feature patch zones, where we have a high enemy density, they should be shooting everyone that is flying down immediately. That would be great.

Way to miss the point.

[Nyel]

I agree. Blizzard should only implement flat plateaus without vegetation, so you can run in straight lines and not be disturbed by silly things like hills. This would make everything better...

There is a huge difference between good zone design and the things they're doing since WoD when it comes to that.

[Lahis]

I agree. Blizzard should only implement flat plateaus without vegetation, so you can run in straight lines and not be disturbed by silly things like hills. This would make everything better...

Imo if Blizzard would ever implement flying on Argus or any other feature patch zones, where we have a high enemy density, they should be shooting everyone that is flying down immediately. That would be great.

Actually I think they should allow flying in the next new patch island.

But as soon as you get off the ground, you'll be one shotted to death by Anti-Air measures.

[Hitei]

There is a huge difference between good zone design and the things they're doing since WoD when it comes to that.

Zone design has been pretty solid since MoP.

[rda]

Zone design has been pretty solid since MoP.

Totally (talking about terrain design). /sarcasm

Take WoD's Nagrand, for example. Two random locations twenty feet from each other frequently have a connecting path circling through a third of the zone.

I suppose "convoluted" is a measure of "good" now.

[Hitei]

Totally (talking about terrain design). /sarcasm

Take WoD's Nagrand, for example. Two random locations twenty feet from each other frequently have a connecting path circling through a third of the zone.

I suppose "convoluted" is a measure of "good" now.

No, good is a subjective measurement that doesn't necessarily have any relation at all to complexity. I also didn't even say good, or that what made the zone design solid was complexity, so I guess nice strawman.

But I will say that "No! I don't want to sometimes run into terrain that stops me from running straight at an objective and forces me to actually look around the world or at my map and figure out how to navigate in the world!" is a pretty silly thing to say if you want to promote "good" zone design.

[Deleted]

I agree. Blizzard should only implement flat plateaus without vegetation, so you can run in straight lines and not be disturbed by silly things like hills. This would make everything better...

Imo if Blizzard would ever implement flying on Argus or any other feature patch zones, where we have a high enemy density, they should be shooting everyone that is flying down immediately. That would be great.

Like seriously, screw this I can't wait to never come back to Argus and just log for raids.

This are the worse pathways ever.

[Deleted]

So... us blacksmiths are now able to craft a Felslate Anchor.

'Use: Attach an anchor to your legs which sends you plummeting towards the ocean floor. Only usable in water. (30 Sec Cooldown) "Jam-packed with enough weight to send a kraken to the ocean floor!"'

Ocean expansion 8.0 confirmed.

[diarx]

BTW, here is a summary of 7.3 so far:

The story line starts and very soon stops at the time gate.

The mob density is such that you aggro a couple every two steps. You also cannot fly. Both these things desperately try to slow you down and make a very small amount of content seem bigger, yet it still ends in something like two hours at best.

Really, 7.3 is very similar to what 7.2 was and is very characteristic of what WoW currently is / what it will continue to be until the end. You run out of content in hours after a major patch, insane time gates on everything, Ion "doing a good job" of keeping a straight face saying things like "biggest patch ever". Please pay your $15.

Whilst I'm not fussed about mob density, the fussy long way round paths and overzealous terrain definitely seem more and more like another non gameplay device to artificially slow players down and make it seem like there's more "gameplay" in the patch than there actually is. They need to dial it back, just a bit.

Also got to wonder how many minutes of "gameplay" they've added purely through the clicking of accumulated artifact tokens alone. Here's an idea Devs, maybe accumulate the darn tokens as a currency in some kind of magical mystical artifact vessel, which can be clicked once full to transfer to your chosen artifact weapon, rather than the ridiculous daily excersise in BAG JANITORING.

[rda]

No, good is a subjective measurement that doesn't necessarily have any relation at all to complexity. I also didn't even say good, or that what made the zone design solid was complexity, so I guess nice strawman.

But I will say that "No! I don't want to sometimes run into terrain that stops me from running straight at an objective and forces me to actually look around the world or at my map and figure out how to navigate in the world!" is a pretty silly thing to say if you want to promote "good" zone design.

The thread was talking about terrain design.

I agree every expansion makes zones slightly more elaborate. There is natural progress. But in terms of navigating the terrain, new zones are frequently making it very tedious to go by ground, so on that measure they don't improve, we traditionally have quite a number of places with very convoluted terrain - and without flying many people just avoid them (just ask). I am not going to say they are making terrain intentionally hard to navigate - I don't think it is that. But they do create convoluted terrain over and over and over again, and when you have to quest there for months, it quickly gets old for many.

[Nyel]

Zone design has been pretty solid since MoP.

No. By any means, no. Are the zones beautiful? Yes. From an aesthetic standpoint the zones in WoD and Legion are great, the best we've ever had. From a gameplay perspective and everything else... not really. They're too crowded, too small, most pathways are horribly designed, little hills can't be climbed and you need to do massive detours to get where you wanted and it just feels "stretched" in a very bad way.

- - - Updated - - -

Whilst I'm not fussed about mob density, the fussy long way round paths and overzealous terrain definitely seem more and more like another non gameplay device to artificially slow players down and make it seem like there's more "gameplay" in the patch than there actually is. They need to dial it back, just a bit.

Also got to wonder how many minutes of "gameplay" they've added purely through the clicking of accumulated artifact tokens alone. Here's an idea Devs, maybe accumulate the darn tokens as a currency in some kind of magical mystical artifact vessel, which can be clicked once full to transfer to your chosen artifact weapon, rather than the ridiculous daily excersise in BAG JANITORING.

So much this! I mean why the hell do artifact items even have a cast time? Because they grant "so much" power at once? OMG

There are so many little things that really lower the quality of Legion overall. Pretty sad.

[tehdef]

Zone design has been pretty solid since MoP.

TIL WotLK has bad zone design.

Hint: It doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -

No. By any means, no. Are the zones beautiful? Yes. From an aesthetic standpoint the zones in WoD and Legion are great. From gameplay and everything else... not really. They're too crowded, too small, most pathways are horribly designed, little hills can't be climbed and you need to do massive detours to get where you wanted

- - - Updated - - -

LEL, basically you just want to go in a straight line and not be inconvenienced by the world. Gtfo or play and try to enjoy the game.

I bet you also cried about flying.

[Nyel]

LEL, basically you just want to go in a straight line and not be inconvenienced by the world. Gtfo or play and try to enjoy the game.

I bet you also cried about flying.

This is just not true. I'm playing since Vanilla and I just laugh at people that tell me to "gtfo" because I criticize some aspects of the game. I want zone design which is not artificially increasing playtime by just having horrible pathway design. And no, I did not cry about flying but it's been part of the game and always will be.

[DelusionalBear]

No. By any means, no. Are the zones beautiful? Yes. From an aesthetic standpoint the zones in WoD and Legion are great, the best we've ever had. From a gameplay perspective and everything else... not really. They're too crowded, too small, most pathways are horribly designed, little hills can't be climbed and you need to do massive detours to get where you wanted and it just feels "stretched" in a very bad way.

seasoned level designer Nyel has spoken! lol

Also got to wonder how many minutes of "gameplay" they've added purely through the clicking of accumulated artifact tokens alone. Here's an idea Devs, maybe accumulate the darn tokens as a currency in some kind of magical mystical artifact vessel, which can be clicked once full to transfer to your chosen artifact weapon, rather than the ridiculous daily excersise in BAG JANITORING.

So much this! I mean why the hell do artifact items even have a cast time? Because they grant "so much" power at once? OMG

Artifact power items have casting time not because they want you to waste as much time as possible, but rather because they don't wan't to get upset about spending all that AP on wrong artifact. With casting bar you have time to cancel it. Not necessarily fool proof yet, but its a start.

"magical mystical artifact vessel" is terrible idea, because next thing you're going to complain about is that you want to spend some of your power on one artifact weapon and the rest of it on another. And this is exactly why tokens are so much better.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I explored Argus and the pathways didn't really bother me. The frustration is a bit overblown. Course scarecrowz is whining as usual.

[rda]

Course scarecrowz is whining as usual.

I suppose I should feel offended because I was not mentioned. :-)

[Shadochi]

I just had a 92MB update for the PTR, know it's probably nothing but just letting you guys know.

[davidbane123]

Telling you, 7.3 is a fiasco similar to that of 7.2.

Legion at launch - OK, looks promising.
Legion 7.1 - OK, not too big, but not too small either, it arrived fast, there's hope after all, right? #iwanttobelieve
Legion 7.2 - nah, no hope.
Legion 7.3 - well... it's Blizzard, what did we expect...

Sometimes I wish they did something really stupid - like, for example, tried to monetize collections harder and, say, added battle pet raids and started charging extra for them. Since collections / achievements and stuff like that is more or less the only thing that keeps me returning from time to time, the additional stupidity in this area will just finally let me off the idiocy and the extreme greediness that is World of Warcraft of 2017.

Told you guys. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...or-next-expack